Preview Round 18, 2020: St.Kilda v GWS - Gabba, Friday 18th September, 7:50PM AEST *MARSHALL 50TH*

Who Wins?

  • Saints

    Votes: 52 64.2%
  • Giants

    Votes: 29 35.8%

  • Total voters
    81

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Enclosed_Animal

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3:40 of the Ratts interview on the official website.

"Yeah we did go small against West Coast and we did pay a bit of a price for it, but some of our organisation behind the ball let us down as well. We had smalls on talls, and talls on smalls, and that's not the way to go about it"

Can I ask, whose fault is that? The coaching staff? The runners not getting messages of positional changes to the players quick enough? Or the on-field leadership (given we are talking about our defence - Geary?) not being vocal to switch players around?
It might also be possible that with being in hub life 24/7, people's inability to get away from Jake outside of normal football commitments is giving some of them them the serious sh1ts.

And in Jake's defense, he'd be accustomed to holding himself together and getting his release within his personal time.
The guy has got a baby due, and who knows where his Mrs is at the moment, and there's nowhere for him to go and be an f***wit and blow off steam.
The club hasn't yet entertained contract talks, and he'll know he's in for a 6 figure pay cut no matter what.
He'd also be aware that he might have to move clubs again right at the time StKilda is showing promise for the future.

I reckon for guy with known issues, he'd be under the most stress of his life right now. Others in the same situation might have even chosen to leave the hub.

The club had dealt with it. We should probably move on too...
Very well put mate.

I am a Jake fan. No point hiding that.

I also can really relate the the above. I did one year of 9-5 in an office. Hated every minute. Completely understand how people go insane in that lifestyle. The pandemic for me in Melbourne has been a real challenge, as it curbs a lot of my normal routines and lifestyle.

People say Jakes attitude is a problem. I have absolutely no idea if that is true or not. However, consider the following:
  • We reportedly shopped him last year against his will
  • Is 'dropped' based on 'matchups' for the West Coast game (Blind Freddy could see that is a ridiculous decision and the reasoning absolutely smells)
  • Spent 4 weeks watching on the side-lines, while the team played mostly garbage
  • Sees the backline and matchups reshuffled to fit in Geary (who is clearly not best 22 ahead of him), while you miss out
  • Coach goes from a progressive attacking game-plan (which he thrived under) to something closer to Richo's conservative 'don't lose' approach (see point above)
  • Has a pregnant Mrs in a different state due sometime pretty soon
  • Has taken a pay cut with Covid
  • Is living 24/7 with what is essentially his bosses and workmates
  • Has no contract offer in front of him for next year, despite playing good football for a number of years (often as a lone hand down back)
  • Has no idea where he will be living / working next year, but knows it will be on less $$ and with a new baby (who you may miss the birth of for work)
So your boss is giving you utter bulls**t, management is acting like they don't want you around in the future, workmates are (rightly or wrongly) getting preferential treatment, Mrs is stressed and understandably wants your time and attention, and you are living with your workmates and bosses 24/7 in a situation you never asked for

Tell me, how would your attitude be?

I am sure plenty of the more senior generations will just say suck it up. Have a cup of concrete and 'harden the f**k' up. But its not 1975. People's mental health and wellbeing actually matter now. Put in the same position, I reckon my attitude would suck too.

If the club cant find a way to get the best out of a talent like Jake, that is just as much on the club as the player. Just my 2 cents
 
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stavro#4

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Very well put mate.

I am a Jake fan. No point hiding that.

I also can really relate the the above. I did one year of 9-5 in an office. Hated every minute. Completely understand how people go insane in that lifestyle. The pandemic for me in Melbourne has been a real challenge, as it curbs a lot of my normal routines and lifestyle.

People say Jakes attitude is a problem. I have absolutely no idea if that is true or not. However, consider the following:
  • We reportedly shopped him last year against his will
  • Is 'dropped' based on 'matchups' for the West Coast game (Blind Freddy could see that is a ridiculous decision and the reasoning absolutely smells)
  • Spent 4 weeks watching on the side-lines, while the team played mostly garbage
  • Sees the backline and matchups reshuffled to fit in Geary (who is clearly not best 22 ahead of him), while you miss out
  • Coach goes from a progressive attacking game-plan (which he thrived under) to something closer to Richo's conservative 'don't lose' approach (see point above)
  • Has a pregnant Mrs in a different state due sometime pretty soon
  • Has taken a pay cut with Covid
  • Is living 24/7 with what is essentially his bosses and workmates
  • Has no contract offer in front of him for next year, despite playing good football for a number of years (often as a lone hand down back)
  • Has no idea where he will be living / working next year, but knows it will be on less $$ and with a new baby (who you may miss the birth of for work)
So your boss is giving you utter bulls**t, management is acting like they don't want you around in the future, workmates are (rightly or wrongly) getting preferential treatment, Mrs is stressed and understandably wants your time and attention, and you are living with your workmates and bosses 24/7 in a situation you never asked for

Tell me, how would your attitude be?

I am sure plenty of the more senior generations will just say suck it up. Have a cup of concrete and 'harden the f**k' up. But its not 1975. People's mental health and wellbeing actually matter now. Put in the same position, I reckon my attitude would suck too.

If the club cant find a way to get the best out of a talent like Jake, that is just as much on the club as the player. Just my 2 cents
I also don’t think he has lived up to his contract. Not jakes issue we paid him, however I bet he still wants that type of money.

might explain why we haven’t re-signed him.

your also pinning a lot on the club, maybe Jake had another sleep in and was late to training again. Maybe it’s happened multiple times and hence we dropped him.

it’s not always the club that’s at fault.

re your game plan. It hasn’t changed.Clubs are prepping better for us and we have lost our best clearance mid. Coinciding with our poor form in the last 5 games. His disposal wasn’t pretty, but he was fantastic at winning a centre clearance and he was a goal threat.
 

Enclosed_Animal

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I also don’t think he has lived up to his contract. Not jakes issue we paid him, however I bet he still wants that type of money.

might explain why we haven’t re-signed him.

your also pinning a lot on the club, maybe Jake had another sleep in and was late to training again. Maybe it’s happened multiple times and hence we dropped him.

it’s not always the club that’s at fault.

re your game plan. It hasn’t changed.Clubs are prepping better for us and we have lost our best clearance mid. Coinciding with our poor form in the last 5 games. His disposal wasn’t pretty, but he was fantastic at winning a centre clearance and he was a goal threat.
You honestly reckon our coaching and approach to the game hasn't changed? Since Geelong got hold of us, you don't think we have gone more defensive? You don't think we now setup more conservatively, and there are more numbers behind the ball? You think players are going on instinct just as much as they were rounds 1-10? Yes we lost some cattle, but for me there is ALSO a fundamental shift in approach. You don't think we are now closer to the 'don't lose' mentality of Richoball, then the brand and mentality we had from round 2 to the Cats game?

If so, we will just have to agree to disagree.

Re Jake, I said above I have no idea if there is even an attitude issue. Simply saying that if there is, there are reasons that would explain it. Some would absolutely be on him. But some would also rest on the club. Just saying, there is more to it then he simply 'has a bad attitude'. That's all.

Jeez if I significantly punished every member of staff that overslept a few times (as you suggest above) I would lose most of my great staff. Especially the innovative ones that value add. They would walk to a competitor that lets them pick their hours, and I would just be left with all the consistent reliable plodders who would take the workplace straight to the middle.

People thrive under different circumstances. Maybe living in the same resort as everyone else, who know exactly what time you wake up every single bloody day would be utterly suffocating for some. Again I have no idea Jakes situation, but just saying there are more then a few extenuating circumstances at the moment. These guys are human, not robots. In the current circumstances (where the coaches actually see everything every player does every day) yes the club might not be handling some players well. Some people might simply get on the nerves of others more then usual. And if that person is in a position of power, they might react disproportionately.

Do you really think that constitutes bagging the club, or me saying this situation is the clubs fault? Really?
 
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Sully111

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It might also be possible that with being in hub life 24/7, people's inability to get away from Jake outside of normal football commitments is giving some of them them the serious sh1ts.

And in Jake's defense, he'd be accustomed to holding himself together and getting his release within his personal time.
The guy has got a baby due, and who knows where his Mrs is at the moment, and there's nowhere for him to go and be an f***wit and blow off steam.
The club hasn't yet entertained contract talks, and he'll know he's in for a 6 figure pay cut no matter what.
He'd also be aware that he might have to move clubs again right at the time StKilda is showing promise for the future.

I reckon for guy with known issues, he'd be under the most stress of his life right now. Others in the same situation might have even chosen to leave the hub.

The club have dealt with it. We should probably move on too...

Great post

My 2 cents. Part of being a leader is to bring the best out in people, recognise when they might be struggling and sometimes take the higher road. To support, rather than come down.

I don't know the story.. but my gut tells me Ratts could have handled this better.
 

ScrappyDo

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Great post

My 2 cents. Part of being a leader is to bring the best out in people, recognise when they might be struggling and sometimes take the higher road. To support, rather than come down.

I don't know the story.. but my gut tells me Ratts could have handled this better.
I think it's us here that haven't handled it. Ratts hasn't thrown Jake under any buses or given the media even the slightest thread to pull on.

To take a glass half full view.

Perhaps Jake was having some issues and they decided he needed some time out to get his head straight.
I believe the club's psych/welfare officer is in the hub too, so it would be par for the course that he/she is involved in things like this.

Lack of information is leading people to speculate, but it's probably in Jake's interest that the club has remained silent and not given the media any ammunition to lay in to him AGAIN.

Anyway, it looks like he'll be playing, so maybe it's done and dusted now...
 

Mowman

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I think it's us here that haven't handled it. Ratts hasn't thrown Jake under any buses or given the media even the slightest thread to pull on.

To take a glass half full view.

Perhaps Jake was having some issues and they decided he needed some time out to get his head straight.
I believe the club's psych/welfare officer is in the hub too, so it would be par for the course that he/she is involved in things like this.

Lack of information is leading people to speculate, but it's probably in Jake's interest that the club has remained silent and not given the media any ammunition to lay in to him AGAIN.

Anyway, it looks like he'll be playing, so maybe it's done and dusted now...
Have always been a Jake fan have said that many times, we are a much better with him playing and hope he is a Saint next year

Have meet him at a fund raiser outside of footy, oh my goodness LOL
 

Winmar2Lockett

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I was warming to Kent half way through the season but like a lot of left footers he's terribly one sided and he's not real quick. Nice kick though.

Hind was great against Gold Coast but hasn't done a thing since. Clearly he's not a permanent forward option going forward. Maybe worth a try off half back if ever we get injuries there.

Lonie just seems undersized to me but is a clever player if he gets his hands on it. Interesting that other clubs are sniffing around him. I doubt anyone would be interested in Kent or Hind. Probably we just go with Lonie and hope he can somehow get to the next level.

Not sold on Parker. The guys got obvious talent but he just needs to embrace the team ethic in the same way that Long has and stop trying to be a one man highlight reel.

No wonder the HF spot is a weekly merry go round. We may as well play Savage there. His ouput wouldn't be any less and the guy definitely knows where the goals are. That's hardly a long term prospect either.
Kent’s biggest issue is that he has hands like Phil Tufnell.

He’s either got Trump like baby paws or smears them with olive oil before each game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

stfan

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I believe it is approximately a 48 point differential.

If we win - doesn't matter.

If we loose - the combined aggregate of our losing margin and their winning margin needs to be more than 48 for the Dees to jump us.

That being said, we would then likely travel to Perth to face the Eagles.

Needless to say, a win tomorrow solves all problems.

Can not wait!!!

Roughly correct.

% is for/against and so the exact margin will depend on exactly what is kicked by the 4 teams.


Bottom line is that if we lose and Dogs win that Dees have a reasonable chance to make it at our expense. If we only just get beaten it is harder for them but still quite possible as the Dons area team who can go missing bigtime allowing blow outs..

If GWS win they need to Dees to lose and to beat us by 50 odd points (If that happens Ratts will have failed as coach).



Dogs are favoured to win, but if the Dogs lose to Freo which is certainly possible, as Freo has been in good form of late and also as the game is in Cairns which it makes less predictible, then it opens the door more to Dees, GWS and the Saints
 

DarkSaint

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Jake needs to play and is a key member of our back line.

Has he got attitude issues? I'd say they would all have attitude issue to a degree.

Working in a performance/sales based role, i need to get the most of my staff. The better one's tend to have attitude problems but are also the best best in terms of output.

Watching him throughout the year, he does tend to give other players around him a spray. Nothing wrong with that. Roo/Goddard were the masters at giving someone a bake during the game.
 

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Enclosed_Animal

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Jake needs to play and is a key member of our back line.

Has he got attitude issues? I'd say they would all have attitude issue to a degree.

Working in a performance/sales based role, i need to get the most of my staff. The better one's tend to have attitude problems but are also the best best in terms of output.

Watching him throughout the year, he does tend to give other players around him a spray. Nothing wrong with that. Roo/Goddard were the masters at giving someone a bake during the game.
He is also still living rent free in Marc Murphy's head. As someone said a few weeks ago, that must be reassuring in Covid times ...

On a different note, Dustin Martin, Luke Hodge, Brian Lake, Steve Johnson, Byron Pickett, Glenn Archer, Gary Ablett snr

Some genuinely ordinary attitudes and personalities on that list. All have Norn Smith medals. Several have 2. More to it then attitude. If fit and available*, your best players play. IF we don't currently have the leadership and experience to manage different or complex personalities, then IMO we need to get better leaders (not more conformist personalities).

*Yes we have no idea of Jakes fitness or even if there is an attitude problem. Just saying I don't care if he sleeps in every day or if his attitude is sh*t. IMO if fit, he plays
 
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George

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Have always been a Jake fan have said that many times, we are a much better with him playing and hope he is a Saint next year

Have meet him at a fund raiser outside of footy, oh my goodness LOL
Best defender we've got and for the most part has been outstanding for us since his biggest stuff up. Not too sure his attitude is really that big of an issue, he isn't the reason we've been in poor form and you have players like him in every side.

Personally one of my favourite players.
 

TheEnsign

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Not a huge fan of Jake but he's a Saint. Have to say that it f**kin did my head in that we omitted him against the Eagles when it was clear Paton would take Ryan; leaving Jake as the obvious match up for either Darling / Allen (Wilkie gets the other) and being able to swap those matches in game as needed. No role for Geary so he had to go out but noooooo, we have to play him.

Also if the plan was to go small and run it out of defence then a) that's pretty silly because everyone thought it'd be wet; not exactly conducive to that style of pinpoint quick handballs and kicks; and b) even with the plan as stated it is not Geary you want running the ball out and trying to pinpoint kick guys in the corridor.

If it s**ts me to this extent I can see how head have the toys out of the crib.
 

The_Steadier

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Hope Hanners gets put straight into an on ball role. He looked much better on the inside than he did from a wing earlier in the year.
0% chance this happens i reckon.

They will be taking the cyril rioli approach with his hammies and not letting him play onball anymore I don't reckon.

He'll be chained to the forward line
 

CaptainRisky

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He is also still living rent free in Marc Murphy's head. As someone said a few weeks ago, that must be reassuring in Covid times ...

On a different note, Dustin Martin, Luke Hodge, Brian Lake, Steve Johnson, Byron Pickett, Glenn Archer, Gary Ablett snr

Some genuinely ordinary attitudes and personalities on that list. All have Norn Smith medals. Several have 2. More to it then attitude. If fit and available*, your best players play. IF we don't currently have the leadership and experience to manage different or complex personalities, then IMO we need to get better leaders (not more conformist personalities).

*Yes we have no idea of Jakes fitness or even if there is an attitude problem. Just saying I don't care if he sleeps in every day or if his attitude is sh*t. IMO if fit, he plays
Thank god you are not the coach, we would be a rabble, your love for jake is very strong to say the least
 

Ducky Tie

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0% chance this happens i reckon.

They will be taking the cyril rioli approach with his hammies and not letting him play onball anymore I don't reckon.

He'll be chained to the forward line
I’d be shocked if we played him predominantly forward. Ratten even said that Jones getting injured made the idea of playing Hannebery more likely. He’s pretty much never played as a forward. I’m confident he’ll play a fair bit of midfield time.
 

bird_man

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Roughly correct.

% is for/against and so the exact margin will depend on exactly what is kicked by the 4 teams.


Bottom line is that if we lose and Dogs win that Dees have a reasonable chance to make it at our expense. If we only just get beaten it is harder for them but still quite possible as the Dons area team who can go missing bigtime allowing blow outs..

If GWS win they need to Dees to lose and to beat us by 50 odd points (If that happens Ratts will have failed as coach).



Dogs are favoured to win, but if the Dogs lose to Freo which is certainly possible, as Freo has been in good form of late and also as the game is in Cairns which it makes less predictible, then it opens the door more to Dees, GWS and the Saints
Screenshot_20200917-173214_Chrome.jpg
Screenshot_20200917-173208_Chrome.jpg
 

pebblesofsand

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Tough decisions for the selectors tonight.

Jones a big loss, Hanners looks likely but that means are bringing in experience but will result in a loss of run that we desperately need.

So Hanners in to replace Kent playing mainly forward, Clark and Coff going through the midfield, Savage in to provide additional run out of defense.

Carlisle in at chb.

Out Jones, Kent & Hind

In Carlisle, Hanners and Savage.
 

The_Steadier

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We go through to finals because we have more good blokes than the dees?

#thanksricho

Actually in all seriousness, I would think in the event of tied percentages i'd guess they do a count back on which team has kicked the most goals for the year?

If that were the case, we've kicked 14 more goals than the dees before this round- so we'd be home and hosed presumably
 
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