Autopsy Round 18, 2021: St.Kilda v Port Adelaide

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Bill Mohr

All Australian
Jun 18, 2021
996
1,538
AFL Club
St Kilda
Membrey gives far more attack to our team than Ross does, his skill set is far more unique too. Seb is a much quieter leader too. He will make two teams better when he leaves, not many can say that. Unless we hold onto him until he is delisted out of the game like we did with Armo. Membrey is a big reason we beat the Lions and his leadership seems to have improved a lot in the last few years.

I know what you mean anout that gen of Saints player, probably the only ones I'd keep would be Membrey and Sinclair, plus maybe Webster and Lonie for depth.
I agree with those 4 players you mentioned. Membrey has proven himself time and time again, Sinclair has improved. Both had an average day against port but apart from that have played well. Webster makes some cock-ups but has played well now for a while
 

Xxxx66

Team Captain
Jul 14, 2017
476
1,230
AFL Club
St Kilda
No you don't.

The fact that you are comparing with "daily papers" where all letters are read before publishing shows that you are out of touch.
Not at all. I am making the point that nowhere else can you spew, hate, stalk, abuse, target people based on their color, religion, politician persuasion, sexual orientation etc. Without consequence. Either legal or a punch in the face.
These companies can identify the perpetrators and choose not to for the sole purpose of making money.
If you as an Individual want to make a comment- own it.
If you create an environment that breaks the law then wear the consequences.



.
 

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gringo2011

Premium Gold
Nov 12, 2011
41,274
104,849
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
And I dont understand the megaphone analogy. Social media has the capability to regulate / control content and identify users and provides a platform to connect them all. They choose not to regulate or identify users because controversy = clicks, clicks equals money. Is it ok for the daily papers to publish readers opinions on hate speech, radical right wing ideology etc?
Simple question: if facebook etc - identified the culprits, would it stop? my guess 80%. If you fined facebook? 100% stops. So If you have a solution to stop it and choose not to, then you are condoning it. I find it astounding that a generation can be brainwashed into adopting the "its not their fault" mentality. Anyway, this has little to do with the thread title, so I will leave it at that.

I guess it goes to privacy somewhat. Do we want the Facebook algorithm to have more ability to watch what we post and write? Facebook is probably one of the less feral places to read stuff because most people have their real identity attached to it so tend to post stuff that is less offensive. It's more forums like this where you are anonymous and don't have any responsibility for your actions other than the opinions of other posters to hold you back that are problematic. Insta and other apps would probably happily give up the IP addresses of the people who step over the mark because they want to look like they take it seriously now.

Generally the consensus for this kind of thing is people outraged and loudly voicing support for the victims. It very rarely ends up encouraging people to act in the same way unless they are mentally ill attention seeker types.
 

prophetic1

Club Legend
Apr 18, 2013
1,063
2,276
b
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
South east Melb. PHOENIX
Make the platform owners responsible for content. Make them publish the identity of perpetrators, makes them responsible for their words.,
The problem disappears in a heart beat. Not doing so is just condoning it.
Fraught with problems and then the question becomes who polices them...too much power in too few hands...too much potential for abuse. It would need to be an independent body yada yada yada....drink driving use to be socially acceptable to a degree....songs even written about the pleasures of it........now amazingly so few actually do it comparatively and only lunatic fringe dickheads would put their hand up encouraging it...so too collective social pressure will effectively act to as good as eliminate racial abuse...... eventually. It must be the willing embrace of a personal responsibility.
 

pebblesofsand

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 18, 2011
8,253
21,899
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Ocean Grove Collendina Cobras
One is a publisher and one is a platform. That's the difference.
Not true - one is always a publisher, the other is a platform or a publisher depending on what suits them.

By banning anything on its "platform" (ie hate speech, Donald Trump, live streaming of mass murders) Facebook/Twitter are exercising editorial control.

That makes them a publisher not a platform and therefore no longer afforded the protections under US law.
 

Xxxx66

Team Captain
Jul 14, 2017
476
1,230
AFL Club
St Kilda
Fraught with problems and then the question becomes who polices them...too much power in too few hands...too much potential for abuse. It would need to be an independent body yada yada yada....drink driving use to be socially acceptable to a degree....songs even written about the pleasures of it........now amazingly so few actually do it comparatively and only lunatic fringe dickheads would put their hand up encouraging it...so too collective social pressure will effectively act to as good as eliminate racial abuse...... eventually. It must be the willing embrace of a personal responsibility.
Too answer your first point - In a democracy, The law should police them. What we have now is too much power in the hands of too few mega wealthy business people who's overiding aim is to make money.. BTW. drink driving didnt stop because of social pressure. Its stopped because of new laws - from fines, licence cancellation to jail time, culpable driving etc etc. Can you imagine a solution where we asked the families of drunk driver victims to just ignore the drunk drivers, dont take any notice of them, switch off and dont drive etc.
 

gringo2011

Premium Gold
Nov 12, 2011
41,274
104,849
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
Not true - one is always a publisher, the other is a platform or a publisher depending on what suits them.

By banning anything on its "platform" (ie hate speech, Donald Trump, live streaming of mass murders) Facebook/Twitter are exercising editorial control.

That makes them a publisher not a platform and therefore no longer afforded the protections under US law.

Free press is long gone anyway. I hope Facebook and others don't get to policing everything but it's hard when there is such a huge propaganda tool just sitting there. But people like Trump who were very good at exploiting the platform because people who grew up in an era when the press had a good reputation and was regulated are too trusting about published information.

I saw today that Hewson had been given the arse from The Age for criticising the government after Channel 9 bought out The Age. Media ownership is a disgrace now.
 

aussierulesrules

Hall of Famer
Jan 7, 2011
30,819
58,900
Heaven. I mean Victoria.
AFL Club
St Kilda
If we are talking trading, and not just players from other clubs:

Membrey, Robbo and Crouch, McKernan and Frawley were free agents.

Wood was a supplemental pick.

So trades were Steele, Higgins, Hill, Kent, Jones, Howard, Ryder, Carlisle, Hanners....plus Butler. Bruce was a a pretty good player for us, but losing him effectively gained us Jones.
Membrey and from memory Robbo were effectively trades. The only reason Membrey wasn’t traded to us was that we didn’t have a pick that would satisfy/be useful to Sydney, so they just delisted him, so that he could start training with us immediately, rather than go to the PSD. Had we had a pick in the 40’s or 50’s to swap for him we would have and it would have been a trade.

So technically we didn’t trade for him, but if you’re talking about how good or otherwise our trading has been over the years, it’s silly to not include him, or Robbo.

They are guys we identified from other clubs who we felt would benefit us and we got them for the required price.
 

aussierulesrules

Hall of Famer
Jan 7, 2011
30,819
58,900
Heaven. I mean Victoria.
AFL Club
St Kilda
He seemed to get a lot more. Maybe it's more in my mind. I just looked them up. It looks like Matt had one really good year when they made the GF in 2017 with 337 CPs to Brads 253. Most other years they seem pretty even.
Yeah Matt had one year out of the box and that’s when he made the AA team. Hasn’t been able to reproduce it since. He did play 5 more games that year than Brad though, and that was the year they made the GF, and in both the prelim and the GF Brad had 17 contested possessions.

In those two games only Joel Selwood and Dusty had more.
 

aussierulesrules

Hall of Famer
Jan 7, 2011
30,819
58,900
Heaven. I mean Victoria.
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St Kilda
St Kilda v Port Adelaide
10 Ollie Wines (PORT)
5 Mitchell Georgiades (PORT)
5 Jack Steele (STK)
4 Trent McKenzie (PORT)
3 Ryan Burton (PORT)
2 Karl Amon (PORT)
1 Rowan Marshall (STK)
 

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Minga

Team Captain
Mar 23, 2021
383
1,692
AFL Club
St Kilda
St Kilda v Port Adelaide
10 Ollie Wines (PORT)
5 Mitchell Georgiades (PORT)
5 Jack Steele (STK)
4 Trent McKenzie (PORT)
3 Ryan Burton (PORT)
2 Karl Amon (PORT)
1 Rowan Marshall (STK)
I’m being a bit of a grouch today, imagine if we had just kicked straighter at goal. The two goal difference probably would’ve effected both coaches/Brownlow votes in Saints favour. Which I only care about because Steele deserves to be way up there in both IMO. What a shame.
 

aussierulesrules

Hall of Famer
Jan 7, 2011
30,819
58,900
Heaven. I mean Victoria.
AFL Club
St Kilda
I’m being a bit of a grouch today, imagine if we had just kicked straighter at goal. The two goal difference probably would’ve effected both coaches/Brownlow votes in Saints favour. Which I only care about because Steele deserves to be way up there in both IMO. What a shame.
Yeah you’ve got to wonder how much the result affects the voting.

Surely Crouch gets some votes for instance if we win. Mega-stiff to have 36 disposals, 20 contested possessions, 11 clearances, 9 tackles and over 500m-gained and not get a single vote.
 

Crusty Undies

This means peace here!
Oct 22, 2016
3,914
8,535
AFL Club
St Kilda
Semantics. But one must follow the laws of the land and the other not. I am all for free speech, but I also believe imbeciles need to be accountable for their words.
Is that level of openness unreasonable?
No it's not semantics at all. One is responsible for what they publish as they express opinions from those inside the company. Another is a platforn for anyone and their dog to say what they want. It's frankly absurd to call the difference only semantic.

Is the AFL or a club responsible when a supporter does something wrong? Should we fine St Kilda when supporters were racist to Brad Hill and his family after last game?
 

Big 0

All Australian
Dec 5, 2015
831
1,561
AFL Club
St Kilda
Yeah you’ve got to wonder how much the result affects the voting.

Surely Crouch gets some votes for instance if we win. Mega-stiff to have 36 disposals, 20 contested possessions, 11 clearances, 9 tackles and over 500m-gained and not get a single vote.
Thought Crouch was better than Steeley the other day, really massive for us around clearances, couple of huge tackles stick out. Ball use not as good though
 

Xxxx66

Team Captain
Jul 14, 2017
476
1,230
AFL Club
St Kilda
No it's not semantics at all. One is responsible for what they publish as they express opinions from those inside the company. Another is a platforn for anyone and their dog to say what they want. It's frankly absurd to call the difference only semantic.

Is the AFL or a club responsible when a supporter does something wrong? Should we fine St Kilda when supporters were racist to Brad Hill and his family after last game?
If the AFL creates a "platform" for people to be racist towards Brad hill and his family then yes 100%
 

Diehard Saint

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 17, 2016
12,957
43,353
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
Well, Roo put it perfectly on the couch tonight -
Brown said the Port pressure was huge but Roo said we lost due to “self-inflicted injuries.”
They highlighted the 5 clanger kicks - Hill’s 2, Sinclair and Webster in defence and Butler’s fluffed kick into the fifty for what should have been a definite goal.
Roo also mentioned kicking 0.8 or 9 or whatever it was.

So. Damn. Frustrating.
When you’re beaten by a better team so be it, but when we beat ourselves, as we have done numerous times this season - against the Cats, Crows, Sydney and Port - it is an absolute season killer.
 

Mowman

Premium Gold
May 19, 2013
15,301
46,221
AFL Club
St Kilda
Well, Roo put it perfectly on the couch tonight -
Brown said the Port pressure was huge but Roo said we lost due to “self-inflicted injuries.”
They highlighted the 5 clanger kicks - Hill’s 2, Sinclair and Webster in defence and Butler’s fluffed kick into the fifty for what should have been a definite goal.
Roo also mentioned kicking 0.8 or 9 or whatever it was.

So. Damn. Frustrating.
When you’re beaten by a better team so be it, but when we beat ourselves, as we have done numerous times this season - against the Cats, Crows, Sydney and Port - it is an absolute season killer.
No body but our self to blame no excuse's we gave it away
 

Mowman

Premium Gold
May 19, 2013
15,301
46,221
AFL Club
St Kilda
Well, Roo put it perfectly on the couch tonight -
Brown said the Port pressure was huge but Roo said we lost due to “self-inflicted injuries.”
They highlighted the 5 clanger kicks - Hill’s 2, Sinclair and Webster in defence and Butler’s fluffed kick into the fifty for what should have been a definite goal.
Roo also mentioned kicking 0.8 or 9 or whatever it was.

So. Damn. Frustrating.
When you’re beaten by a better team so be it, but when we beat ourselves, as we have done numerous times this season - against the Cats, Crows, Sydney and Port - it is an absolute season killer.
And wasn't Roo annoyed ?
 

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