Autopsy Round 18, 2022: Hawks pluck Eagles

[AlwaysHawks15]

Nothing wrong with weighting his kicks, wish people would drop the idea that kicks need to be bullets to earn the elite title.

Sometimes bullets go too quick and you can't mark the thing. Penetration is different to force. Bailey Dale is a very good exponent of the kick with penetration. Gets to the target quick but not too hard you can't mark it.

 

[burner1]

Nothing wrong with weighting his kicks, wish people would drop the idea that kicks need to be bullets to earn the elite title.

There’s a time to weight your kicks (eg kicking to a lead or into a gap) and times when a flatter, more penetrating kick is required (switching or kicking inboard, or the long kick ins fast play). The elite kicks generally can do both.

At this stage almost his kicks are all ‘weighted’ - which means a few too many floaters and he’s missing some relatively easy 30m passes as he’s giving it too much air.

Expect it’s something he’ll work on over next few seasons.

McDonald in contrast seems to have a better toolkit - can hit the laser precision pass but also has the touch when required.

Jai has a different problem - just tries to kick 60m bullets every time when sometimes more nuance is needed.

 

[robiecampbellbrown]

After that high free kick against Breust in the last, could that be the record for the longest continuous boo in history?

Aren’t most

There’s a time to weight your kicks (eg kicking to a lead or into a gap) and times when a flatter, more penetrating kick is required (switching or kicking inboard, or the long kick ins fast play). The elite kicks generally can do both.

At this stage almost his kicks are all ‘weighted’ - which means a few too many floaters and he’s missing some relatively easy 30m passes as he’s giving it too much air.

Expect it’s something he’ll work on over next few seasons.

McDonald in contrast seems to have a better toolkit - can hit the laser precision pass but also has the touch when required.

Jai has a different problem - just tries to kick 60m bullets every time when sometimes more nuance is needed.

CMac is a one touch player with pace and good decision making. Needs to build up his fitness and then will be elite.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

There’s a time to weight your kicks (eg kicking to a lead or into a gap) and times when a flatter, more penetrating kick is required (switching or kicking inboard, or the long kick ins fast play). The elite kicks generally can do both.

At this stage almost his kicks are all ‘weighted’ - which means a few too many floaters and he’s missing some relatively easy 30m passes as he’s giving it too much air.

Expect it’s something he’ll work on over next few seasons.

McDonald in contrast seems to have a better toolkit - can hit the laser precision pass but also has the touch when required.

Jai has a different problem - just tries to kick 60m bullets every time when sometimes more nuance is needed.

I think being an elite kick is subjective because as everyone has mentioned. Sam Mitchell is an elite kick but he didn’t have a very good long kicking game or set shots. Although his kicking and picking of gaps, dual footed kicking etc all elite, the best pure dual footed kick ever tbh, no one knows/knew his preferred foot.

On Ward, he has shown he’s very capable of hitting darts at all distances, whether it’s the confidence at the highest level but from U18s he was the biggest turn and go player I’ve seen and he’d often hit up targets in the middle or run and kick inside 50.

He just needs to add more intent when kicking hard and flat. He does it on occasion but it’ll come with confidence.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Just to clarify Sam Mitchell became elite. He didn't come into football being elite. Elite vision, elite kick on both sides, elite evasion, elite decision making. The majority were learnt traits. There is plenty of time for our draftees to improve these traits on their journey

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Just to clarify Sam Mitchell became elite. He didn't come into football being elite. Elite vision, elite kick on both sides, elite evasion, elite decision making. The majority were learnt traits. There is plenty of time for our draftees to improve these traits on their journey

Sam started as a left footer and was told to stop showing off and learnt to kick on his right side which is why he was so prolific. Again it was learnt. But he did have the decision making and evasion/vision. Because you’re naturally born with those types of skills. Although obviously they were improved to the peak of what they could achieve.
It’s more noticing what someone is good at and do they have the base. If they do they’re more likely than not able to work on it to get it to the elite standard.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Sam started as a left footer and was told to stop showing off and learnt to kick on his right side which is why he was so prolific. Again it was learnt. But he did have the decision making and evasion/vision. Because you’re naturally born with those types of skills. Although obviously they were improved to the peak of what they could achieve.
It’s more noticing what someone is good at and do they have the base. If they do they’re more likely than not able to work on it to get it to the elite standard.

Dom I said ELITE. Mitchell only became Elite in those categories late in his career

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Dom I said ELITE. Mitchell only became Elite in those categories late in his career

Fair but again he always had it. Unlike say Mitchell (Tom) or Shiels.

You can usually tell when someone has the base to build into elite.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Fair but again he always had it. Unlike say Mitchell (Tom) or Shiels.

You can usually tell when someone has the base to build into elite.

I don't think you appreciate the amount work Mitchell did in becoming elite. Not all players have worked as hard as him over his career. He got the absolute best out of himself. Not many footballers can say that. Even Gary Ablett Snr as good as he was didn't really get the best out of himself. Sounds ridiculous I know but never trained as hard and sometimes didn't even show up to training.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

I don't think you appreciate the amount work Mitchell did in becoming elite. Not all players have worked as hard as him over his career. He got the absolute best out of himself. Not many footballers can say that. Even Gary Ablett Snr as good as he was didn't really get the best out of himself. Sounds ridiculous I know but never trained as hard and sometimes didn't even show up to training.

Buddy to an extent. How many stories have come out of Sydney with his lack of training and yeah I know what you mean, but there’s things you can’t improve massively and that you’re born with and a footy iq which goes into stuff like decision making you’re born with. Kicking to an extent but takes more practice, the evasiveness was natural because he wasn’t quick.

But again yes he was a very hard worker but he was still born with this stuff. Mitchell (Tom) is a hard worker but he wasn’t ever gonna be good at things like that (kicking for example).

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Dom I said ELITE. Mitchell only became Elite in those categories late in his career

TFP - you really are being silly here. How dare you invoke the things you have seen with your own eyes before Dom was even born to dispute his hot takes on here.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Buddy to an extent. How many stories have come out of Sydney with his lack of training and yeah I know what you mean, but there’s things you can’t improve massively and that you’re born with and a footy iq which goes into stuff like decision making you’re born with. Kicking to an extent but takes more practice, the evasiveness was natural because he wasn’t quick.

But again yes he was a very hard worker but he was still born with this stuff. Mitchell (Tom) is a hard worker but he wasn’t ever gonna be good at things like that (kicking for example).

Once again Mitchell wasn't a very good kick when he first started almost comparable to Tom in that he couldn't kick it very far either. He just focused on it and made it a strength over the years. Watching Sam in 2001 you would have wanted him handballing the ball rather than kicking it. You are missing the point everyone has abilities. Physical abilities height, speed are hard to improve dramatically Skills are an ability you can improve over time

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Once again Mitchell wasn't a very good kick when he first started almost comparable to Tom in that he couldn't kick it very far either. He just focused on it and made it a strength over the years. Watching Sam in 2001 you would have wanted him handballing the ball rather than kicking it. You are missing the point everyone has abilities. Physical abilities height, speed are hard to improve dramatically Skills are an ability you can improve over time

To make it clearer for our young friend - you are saying that Sam Mitchell had ELITE improvement skills.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Once again Mitchell wasn't a very good kick when he first started almost comparable to Tom in that he couldn't kick it very far either. He just focused on it and made it a strength over the years. Watching Sam in 2001 you would have wanted him handballing the ball rather than kicking it. You are missing the point everyone has abilities. Physical abilities height, speed are hard to improve dramatically Skills are an ability you can improve over time

The footy brain and processing and decision making is the part I’m talking about as hard to improve and that’s it natural. Kicking is very improveable but again that depends on physical things sometimes. Like Tom Mitchell hasn’t got the physical ability to kick far or pinpoint passes often. As an example.

And Sam was always able to kick comfortably on both feet due to his coach telling him to kick on his right, but yes he still had his improvements as most do.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

To make it clearer for our young friend - you are saying that Sam Mitchell had ELITE improvement skills.

What the * does that make Worpel

 

[Ned Ryerson]

What the * does that make Worpel

Unelite.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Unelite.

 

[badgrill]

The footy brain and processing and decision making is the part I’m talking about as hard to improve and that’s it natural. Kicking is very improveable but again that depends on physical things sometimes. Like Tom Mitchell hasn’t got the physical ability to kick far or pinpoint passes often. As an example.

And Sam was always able to kick comfortably on both feet due to his coach telling him to kick on his right, but yes he still had his improvements as most do.

Dom, have you ever just replied with - "ah ok, thanks" (or even simply don't reply) and left it at that?

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Dom, have you ever just replied with - "ah ok, thanks" (or even simply don't reply) and left it at that?

Ah ok thanks

 

[HedgeFund]

Those that complain about Marvel obviously never watched Hawthorn at Victoria Park

Don’t worry about a soulless stadium
You were worried about your life

Same feeling at Moorabbin in belting rain and 10 degrees.

 

[grumbleguts]

And yet used his rather than he’s

Can I give THIS ten likes?

 

[grumbleguts]

I really look forward to watching this team - win or lose.

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

What have you got against them when they draw?

 

[grumbleguts]

There were 3 howlers on the day.

1. Newcombe 'caught' holding the ball. Upon rewatching the broadcast even the commentators knew it was incorrect.
2. Morrison 'high' on Ryan.
3. Punky 'high' in the last quarter.

I think all 3 calls were by the 'male' umpires too if I'm not mistaken?

The high tackle on blanck that was paid holding the ball was the worst of all of them

It takes pride of place in this article.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-news-2022-jack-ginnivan-high-free-kick-examples-afl-memo-to-clarify-players-that-duck-into-tackles-james-blanck-will-schofield/news-story/ed7a3d71e4c36f643ca2e5fc3bdebb05?fbclid=IwAR3cwWEeVMYb4tumKsPf3GWa-NwtlhRiQMISgP0rMpWeq39Sac4o58KvDSg

 

[Brishawk]

Goldspink cost us a top 4 spot in 2007

We were up by a couple of points, Game on the line with about 45 seconds to go, a port player tries to rush a behind in our attack from about 10m out and thumps it along the ground and it hits the behind post. That's a non negotiable deliberate out of bounds (commentary called it out as an absolute howler), but goldspink calls a throw in, they win the clearance , run it all the way to from memory a Brett Ebert goal basically on the siren.

Was about 3-4 other horrendous calls too goldspink destroyed us everytime.

That loss left us 5th, behind North only on %. If goldsphincter had done his job, we'd have played Geelong week 1 of the finals.

Helped us land Rioli so all good in the end

 

[Brishawk]

The footy brain and processing and decision making is the part I’m talking about as hard to improve and that’s it natural. Kicking is very improveable but again that depends on physical things sometimes. Like Tom Mitchell hasn’t got the physical ability to kick far or pinpoint passes often. As an example.

And Sam was always able to kick comfortably on both feet due to his coach telling him to kick on his right, but yes he still had his improvements as most do.

Decision making is the thing all players improve the most through experience. Mitchell was good at extracting the ball from packs but wasn’t a great user in space and didn’t even get a lot of the ball until a few years in to his career. You should probably stop talking about him like you watched his career when you haven’t.

Rioli was the one who walked into football capable of making genius decision from day one. Everyone else takes time.