Autopsy Round 18, 2022: Hawks pluck Eagles

[Ned Ryerson]

Both wrong to an extent.

He became a right footer at 14!
“In the middle of that, I had a coach that thought I was a right-footed and yelled at me for kicking on my left. He thought I was ‘lairising’.

“So I did two things. One I became a right-footer and two I got a dictionary and tried to figure out what lairising meant.

FFS. I’ve read that article too - it doesn’t counter what brishawk said about the first third of Mitchell’s career. Something in his living memory and not yours. Just stop. You don’t know everything - you certainly don’t know more about Mitchell’s earlier days at Hawthorn than people who were there to see it up close. This isn’t agree to disagree - it’s learn to shut the * up and respect the knowledge of posters who were watching things happens before you were born and while you were a small child.

 

[Brishawk]

Both wrong to an extent.

He became a right footer at 14!
“In the middle of that, I had a coach that thought I was a right-footed and yelled at me for kicking on my left. He thought I was ‘lairising’.

“So I did two things. One I became a right-footer and two I got a dictionary and tried to figure out what lairising meant.

I said he came to the league as a right footer. That is 100% correct. You would know this had you watched his career instead of misunderstanding articles written after he retired. He was not dual sided when he started his afl career. He worked on it. His kicking wasn’t good at the start of his career. He worked on that too. You can’t look at the end product and infer the beginning.

 

[Brishawk]

If you watched Sam before he was drafted you could see he was a gifted natural footballer. Played a practice match out at his old club in the outer East during his BH days and I swear I've never seen anybody make everyone look so pedestrian. Pretty high standard league too so it wasn't a bunch of hacks either. And this was someone not athletically any better. He always had the talent just had to be discovered and revealed to the wider football community.

Don’t think anyone is arguing he lacked talent just that he also had to work hard. When he missed on being drafted he worked hard to improve. After a year at box hill he was drafted. In his first year at hawthorn he played mostly vfl and won the Liston! But he wasn’t dominant at clearances at afl level. That took another year before they started calling him the extractor. It took until his fourth season on an afl list before he averaged over 20 disposals per game. So he wasn’t an elite ball winner either. It was something he worked on. But that is his story. He just kept on working incredible hard at his game until he became one of the best to wear the brown and gold.

 

[Slainte]

Or, rather than disagreeing, you could listen to people who know better.

I'm not old enough to have seen Hudson play. I don't argue with those who have. It's a simple concept.

Simple, but dumb. I saw John Peck play and have Brendan Edwards' autograph. Does that mean no-one should argue with me?

 

[Brishawk]

Simple, but dumb. I saw John Peck play and have Brendan Edwards' autograph. Does that mean no-one should argue with me?

Peck was 7ft tall and shot fire out of his arse. Come at me!

 

[TheFourPillars]

Peck was 7ft tall and shot fire out of his arse. Come at me!

Father of dragons?

 

[TheFourPillars]

I cant believe this mitchell thing is still going... to get on an AFL list u have got to be talented. Mitchell was never elite from day 1. It took time. It is why he was overlooked in the draft. It took 11 years for him to win his brownlow. He was our most consistent ball getter later in his career. He played some incredible games later on his career. He was one of the best to play for hawthorn by the end of his career

 

[Sixpence]

Simple, but dumb. I saw John Peck play and have Brendan Edwards' autograph. Does that mean no-one should argue with me?

If they haven't also seen Peck play, yes.

 

[The hands of stone]

Both wrong to an extent.

He became a right footer at 14!
“In the middle of that, I had a coach that thought I was a right-footed and yelled at me for kicking on my left. He thought I was ‘lairising’.

“So I did two things. One I became a right-footer and two I got a dictionary and tried to figure out what lairising meant.

Dom , I saw Sam play juniors and went to the same highschool as him as did my brothers .
Grew up in the same town as he and his family.
Saw him play junior football right from his young days all through his AFL career.
Even saw him play other sport as a junior .

All I will say is Brishawk is on the $$$$ here regarding his footy, I wouldnt be believing all these articles or whatever your getting your info from.
Its not quite correct at all.

 

[FB19]

Sam Mitchell good player did kicking and hand balling both sides well done. Hopefully a good coach. Round 19 please.

 

[Slainte]

I cant believe this mitchell thing is still going... to get on an AFL list u have got to be talented. Mitchell was never elite from day 1. It took time. It is why he was overlooked in the draft. It took 11 years for him to win his brownlow. He was our most consistent ball getter later in his career. He played some incredible games later on his career. He was one of the best to play for hawthorn by the end of his career

You are right and I doubt anyone would see it much differently. The debate kicks on because it taps into a fundamental philosophical question that we have been struggling with for thousands of years. It is all about how you explain the trajectory not how you describe it.

 

[KermitJagger]

I cant believe this mitchell thing is still going... to get on an AFL list u have got to be talented. Mitchell was never elite from day 1. It took time. It is why he was overlooked in the draft. It took 11 years for him to win his brownlow. He was our most consistent ball getter later in his career. He played some incredible games later on his career. He was one of the best to play for hawthorn by the end of his career

This is the argument I have with people all the time, the passing of time tends to make us remember past players at their peak because we look at their career and remember all their achievements without what it took to get there.

Sam is one of the best examples of hard work and perseverance in AFL history. Wasn't blessed with any real physical gifts but had a real hunger to make it. His progression from an almost exclusively inside, clearance winning midfielder to constant Brownlow Medal threat was a real inspiration.

 

[HedgeFund]

Apparently we beat the Eagles because Sam had a withered right foot as a junior but worked so hard on his left that Breust was able to kick six goals on Sunday.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Apparently we beat the Eagles because Sam had a withered right foot as a junior but worked so hard on his left that Breust was able to kick six goals on Sunday.

Elite summary.

 

[Satchel]

just came back in here to hopefully read "thread closed"

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

me coming into this thread for the first time in 3 days

 

[Ned Ryerson]

me coming into this thread for the first time in 3 days

Aurora borelitis

 

[Manila_Hawk]

 

[Suntory Boss Coffee]

Dom , I saw Sam play juniors and went to the same highschool as him as did my brothers .
Grew up in the same town as he and his family.
Saw him play junior football right from his young days all through his AFL career.
Even saw him play other sport as a junior .

All I will say is Brishawk is on the $$$$ here regarding his footy, I wouldnt be believing all these articles or whatever your getting your info from.
Its not quite correct at all.

3138 represent

 

[Dewyyyyy]

FFS. I’ve read that article too - it doesn’t counter what brishawk said about the first third of Mitchell’s career. Something in his living memory and not yours. Just stop. You don’t know everything - you certainly don’t know more about Mitchell’s earlier days at Hawthorn than people who were there to see it up close. This isn’t agree to disagree - it’s learn to shut the * up and respect the knowledge of posters who were watching things happens before you were born and while you were a small child.

Again mate it is because you’re having a go for absolutely no reason. Calm down.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

I said he came to the league as a right footer. That is 100% correct. You would know this had you watched his career instead of misunderstanding articles written after he retired. He was not dual sided when he started his afl career. He worked on it. His kicking wasn’t good at the start of his career. He worked on that too. You can’t look at the end product and infer the beginning.

He was “technically” because he still had the fact he could as you said kick further off his left. And obviously he had stayed mainly on his other side to start because he was the type of kid with a two handball drop. I understand what you’re saying and the point you’re getting across, it’s that it has gone so far away from what I was originally trying to make a point of.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Don’t think anyone is arguing he lacked talent just that he also had to work hard. When he missed on being drafted he worked hard to improve. After a year at box hill he was drafted. In his first year at hawthorn he played mostly vfl and won the Liston! But he wasn’t dominant at clearances at afl level. That took another year before they started calling him the extractor. It took until his fourth season on an afl list before he averaged over 20 disposals per game. So he wasn’t an elite ball winner either. It was something he worked on. But that is his story. He just kept on working incredible hard at his game until he became one of the best to wear the brown and gold.

I think you ended up misunderstanding me. It wasn’t that he didn’t or no one else needs to work hard as it’s the key part of being an elite player but the fact that players are born with talents and ceilings both physically and mentally.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

I cant believe this mitchell thing is still going... to get on an AFL list u have got to be talented. Mitchell was never elite from day 1. It took time. It is why he was overlooked in the draft. It took 11 years for him to win his brownlow. He was our most consistent ball getter later in his career. He played some incredible games later on his career. He was one of the best to play for hawthorn by the end of his career

This is also the difference between high end draft picks and later ones. Usually not the amount of talent they have but also how ready they are and how good they already are. How far progressed.

It’s why key position players seem to go lower despite being vital parts of teams, because they’re clearly talented. Just take more time usually.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Dom , I saw Sam play juniors and went to the same highschool as him as did my brothers .
Grew up in the same town as he and his family.
Saw him play junior football right from his young days all through his AFL career.
Even saw him play other sport as a junior .

All I will say is Brishawk is on the $$$$ here regarding his footy, I wouldnt be believing all these articles or whatever your getting your info from.
Its not quite correct at all.

There’s a lot and as I’ve said think the point never got across. He started as a left footer but changed because one he had a two hand ball drop and two he had a coach who thought he was a right footer as the quote above states. He was still a natural leftie because he could get more distance on it.

For example a mate of mine is similar (obviously not to the extent) he can kick further on his left but more accurately on his right. Which seems similarish to Sam.

And it’s awesome you’ve got experience with him, it’s not that I’ve been completing ignoring everyone’s comments about him and who have got the knowledge. Its for me that my original point wasn’t understood, and has gone into a downward spiral of arguing something that really again, wasn’t the point I was trying to get across, actually there’s been a few comments which have gotten it across but it seems to of been missed and lost in the others.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Sam Mitchell good player did kicking and hand balling both sides well done. Hopefully a good coach. Round 19 please.

Good win, Ward is love Ward is life