Opinion Round 18 Changes vs. GWS

[ozzie69]

The whole team can have a week off after the first final win in seven weeks. For now, just manage as needs be.

 

[Wizard]

Suban will have his annual awesome game against GWS so he'll probs kick 2-3 goals and have 20 disposals. Not that I see Ross dropping him after a good game anyway.

Hopefully Weller/Blakely gets a game finally. Would think Clancee will be out with injury.

So your expecting Subes to carry on his great form from Saturday?

 

[electricfeel]

So your expecting Subes to carry on his great form from Saturday?

He always plays well against GWS and that's the only time he puts in an above average game all year.

 

[clogged]

You are using a arbitrary point established the AFL to defend an arbitrary point established by the OP. There is no reason to select that point other than to support the position. While arbitrary points are required in objective matters like tules for subjective matters arbitrary points are pointless!

Continuum fallacy.

 

[freoextra]

Gee Blackley looked good in the game for Peel on the weekend.

Good size will not be rag-dolled and just has an awesome inside game.

A little less impact as the game wore on which is a pity and may hold him back under the Lyon mantra of being match fit.

He will have an impact from day one - very exciting.

 

[Wizard]

He always plays well against GWS and that's the only time he puts in an above average game all year.

The game he just played contradicts your opinion.

 

[StingBitten]

Gu in for De Boer is only change.

 

[Moist Biscuit]

Gu in for De Boer is only change.

Why Mzungu?

 

[Banker]

Why Mzungu?

Experience.

Getting late into season, almost no point debuting new players as they wont play in finals.

 

[meima]

Experience.

Getting late into season, almost no point debuting new players as they wont play in finals.

Nah his form in wafl is not good to be rewarded.

 

[sherrif]

What's your view on players who constantly get sub 15 possessions, turn the ball over, have poor and over rated skills, give away stupid free kicks, rarely score and can't kick over a jam tin?

My opinion is that the poeple who make comments like the above clearly think they have more knowledge then one of the better coaching teams in the afl, when in fact they are devoid of even the most basic understanding of the game. Suban keeps playing because he plays his role alot better than most here give him credit for. Those who are most critical on here about his constant selection seem to suffer from a severe case of delusions of adequacy in terms of their knowledge of the game. The above poster is a repeat offender in this regard.

 

[clogged]

My opinion is that the poeple who make comments like the above clearly think they have more knowledge then one of the better coaching teams in the afl, when in fact they are devoid of even the most basic understanding of the game. Suban keeps playing because he plays his role alot better than most here give him credit for. Those who are most critical on here about his constant selection seem to suffer from a severe case of delusions of adequacy in terms of their knowledge of the game. The above poster is a repeat offender in this regard.

So essentially you want to tell others they have zero knowledge yet are so incapable of forming your own opinion you defer to someone else to do the thinking for you.

How does Suban have an important role given he has been sub three times over the past seven weeks?

 

[wild side]

Ross on PR said that Clancee would be available.

I reckon Dawson will come in, and Tabs out. They might try young Pearce forward this w/end, and get Zac back.

 

[Lach72]

Sure. Nice appeal to authority. And you didn't address any of the points.

So let's go further...do the best team in the comp carry the guys who are just "great blockers".

 

[Lach72]

So essentially you want to tell others they have zero knowledge yet are so incapable of forming your own opinion you defer to someone else to do the thinking for you.

How does Suban have an important role given he has been sub four times over the past eight weeks?

How nicely put. He's guarding the **** out of those Gatorade bottles

 

[sherrif]

So essentially you want to tell others they have zero knowledge yet are so incapable of forming your own opinion you defer to someone else to do the thinking for you.

How does Suban have an important role given he has been sub three times over the past seven weeks?

Actually the above is fair point. To clarify what I am saying is that I agree with the caoching staff that Suban plays his role significantly better than most here give him credit for. When I watch games I think he does a good job blocking for other players, which measn his stats are lower than our other mids. I dont go to every game myself, but I watch enough live to notice that Subes seems to be instructed to block for other players than to try and win the footy. His kicking has actually been pretty good compared to what he gets on here. Suban is a decent footballer and no world beater, but he deserves better than the degree of rubbish opinions posted on here this season. The fact he has been given a sub vest demonstrtes that he is not in our best 18, but rather best 22 when most players are playing. My question to you clogged is a simple one "In my opinion your views seem to demonstrate that you dont watch many game live as I think you would view the value of the players who block off the ball more highly if you were watching games live. Am I right or wrong in my assertion?

 

[sherrif]

Sure. Nice appeal to authority. And you didn't address any of the points.

So let's go further...do the best team in the comp carry the guys who are just "great blockers".

Because your points are absurd, as always. The bloke is one of the longest kicks in the team, not even in the top half dozen for frees against and has actually done a great job shutting down his man in recent weeks. Again, to repeat, I am not saying he is a world beater but you have truly delusional beliefs about your footy knowledge if you think that you have more knowledge than our coaching staff and that Suban is as useless as you say. Again, it is bleedingly and ridiculously obvious that the best clearance teams have players who block at contested situations to get a player free. Look at the Hawks Grand Final win wiith the role Langford played. Burgoyne also does this really well, which is why his stats are lower than you would think. Look at how Rampe from the Swans blocks for Kennedy. Often it is half back or half forward who pushes into the contested situations. There are often twenty eight players around the football at clearances for crying out loud. So, in a nutshell what you are saying is ridiculous.

 

[ydraw]

Maybe we should find someone who is good at blocking off the ball but still doesn't get pinged holding the ball 5 times a game.

 

[ydraw]

gain, to repeat, I am not saying he is a world beater but you have truly delusional beliefs about your footy knowledge if you think that you have more knowledge than our coaching staff

There you go again with your appeal to authority.

The coaching staff make mistakes all the time. Unless you think it was a great idea to play De Boer over Lachie Neale in the GF. If you think it was a great idea to play for over a season without a Centre Half Forward (a mistake that the match committee has now conceded, although the people in this forum who supported it for years never have).

 

[Scham]

Because your points are absurd, as always. The bloke is one of the longest kicks in the team, not even in the top half dozen for frees against and has actually done a great job shutting down his man in recent weeks. Again, to repeat, I am not saying he is a world beater but you have truly delusional beliefs about your footy knowledge if you think that you have more knowledge than our coaching staff and that Suban is as useless as you say. Again, it is bleedingly and ridiculously obvious that the best clearance teams have players who block at contested situations to get a player free. Look at the Hawks Grand Final win wiith the role Langford played. Burgoyne also does this really well, which is why his stats are lower than you would think. Look at how Rampe from the Swans blocks for Kennedy. Often it is half back or half forward who pushes into the contested situations. There are often twenty eight players around the football at clearances for crying out loud. So, in a nutshell what you are saying is ridiculous.

Murphy got 27 poss on him just last week.

 

[Lach72]

Because your points are absurd, as always. The bloke is one of the longest kicks in the team, not even in the top half dozen for frees against and has actually done a great job shutting down his man in recent weeks. Again, to repeat, I am not saying he is a world beater but you have truly delusional beliefs about your footy knowledge if you think that you have more knowledge than our coaching staff and that Suban is as useless as you say. Again, it is bleedingly and ridiculously obvious that the best clearance teams have players who block at contested situations to get a player free. Look at the Hawks Grand Final win wiith the role Langford played. Burgoyne also does this really well, which is why his stats are lower than you would think. Look at how Rampe from the Swans blocks for Kennedy. Often it is half back orhalf forward who pushes into the contested situations. There are often twenty eight players around the football at clearances for crying out loud. So, in a nutshell what you are saying is ridiculous.

His kicking, and I notice you've left De Boer out conveniently, is massively over rated. Both give away stupid free kicks and in De Boers case his kicking is so sub standard to be a huge liability.

I'm arguing that the value of blocking is out weighed by the deficiencies of both of them and it's areas like these where we are patently deficient in comparison to the competition's best team.

This cannot be addressed by continuing to play obviously deficient players.

My points are no more absurd than suggesting good blockers should be in there for blocking alone.
I'd suggest Suban has played what, 4 acceptable games this year?
Langford also kicks goals and you're not seriously lumping Burgoyne into this conversation are you? And Rampe is bog average

 

[Righteo]

A bit of spacing wouldn't go astray sherrif. Also no need to call others delusional because they disagree with you. There can't be productive discussion if everything is predicated on the infallibility of our coaches either.

 

[sherrif]

A bit of spacing wouldn't go astray sherrif. Also no need to call others delusional because they disagree with you. There can't be productive discussion if everything is predicated on the infallibility of our coaches either.

My point was more that people here are completely over the top in regard to their criticism of Suban and that is demonstrated in the original post about Suban from lach72. I wasnt even saying that I didnt think he wasnt in line to be dropped, but simply pointing out how there were some smart men who would disagree with the views on here. Again, all I am doing is putting out some of the reasons why the coach would value Suban enough to select him in the 22. The degree of the abuse is what I was responding to.
My spacing is fine thanks. By the way I showed you respect by keeping my propbelms with your moderating off the main page. The least you could do is respond. Again, your idea of productive discussion leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[DMan 11]

I don't want to get into this debate at all but I'll add my 2 cents on one part of it that is forever mentioned and over-hyped...subans apparently magical left leg.
Been to about 4 games this year and while he may have the ability to roost it ( SFW ) he has probably the most narrow field of vision in our entire team - it's like his neck can't twist and his eyes are focused 40-50m downfield in direct line with the arc of this magical left leg.
It's actually a flaw of his, not to mention being so left centric he runs into stupid areas which nullifies leading patterns further afield and leads to getting caught HTB.
Anyone that thinks suban is elite or even near elite by foot has only one hand on their keyboard ....

 

[sherrif]

Murphy got 27 poss on him just last week.

I would say they werent effective at all. Masten regularly gets 27 possessions. No one has said Suban is elite or even close to an elite kick.