Autopsy Round 18: Collingwood 45-61 Port Adelaide

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jackcass

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Get Puopolo for a year (and a kid in the draft). He's a natural crumber and he has the smarts! Should also have a look at Kade Simpson for a year. His experience and neat left foot would allow us to move Maynard into the mids.

Pass on both.
 

Doc1763

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Bucks will coach us in 2021. Might be best to save your powder until then. I reckon we will go alright.
Yes, he will be coach next year, with all the same pressures that were there in 2017.

If we keep performing like we are now, he's gone.
 

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jackcass

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How the absolute F is a former great forward our ruck coach. A guy who was never a professional successful ruck? Good god.
And we are the wealthiest club in the Comp. Jesus Christ.

Pebbles was actually a very good ruckman, just didn't have the tank to do the role too often.

Expenditure over and above the footy department soft cap accrues an 85% tax. No team is doing it because it's just throwing money away. Wealth of the club is therefore irrelevant.
 
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greening22

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I agree. The Experiment has not worked. He has never had a defensive mindset. It's been all about midfield and running all the time in both directions.
He should of started his career elsewhere and move to us after experience as a nobody.
Totally correct. Nothing more needs to be said.
 
Yes, he will be coach next year, with all the same pressures that were there in 2017.

If we keep performing like we are now, he's gone.
That’s certainly possible. I would like to see a change in Assistant Coach or two. I feel like we need some fresh eyes, that and a decent run with injury.
 

JezzasOnTheAsphalt

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Holding the man & push in the back in general play moreso... have disappeared from the game completely

A shame with holding the man as well in particular, if we were stricter on it the game would be a better and fairer spectacle. Paying the finicky little holds might be annoying at first, but once players realise the interpretation is strict, they will likely worry more about the ball than the opponent and we’ll see better play around congestion.

Although there was nothing finicky about the tackle Crisp laid on the goal line, that is absolutely holding the man and probably just wasn’t paid because it was on the goal line.
 

No SPIN

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Oh yeah, we've played champagne football this year. half of last year was pretty ordinary too.

1 good year out of 9. pretty good going if mediocrity is your benchmark.

Doc - not going down that track again.
You may as well tell me that improvement or progress is not a concept you understand - we are clearly better and more competitive than 2017.
That you need to refer to a 9 year record to diminish that progress is straw clutching, and not an objective assessment by any reasonable person.
 

Darkyprotector

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Sier is a much better all-round footballer than Wills who is a one tick pony!
And wills offers more around the contest than
Stepho
Thomas
Tyler brown
Noble (no tackles)
Whe

Of course seir is a better all round option than wills
But we're getting smashed in clearances
So I play both

How do you think
Adams pendels treleor Elliot Tyler brown will go against West coast
 
When was the last time he took a mark inside 50?
We need to do something. Nic Nat will jump right over the top of him at the centre bounces.
 

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We need to do something. Nic Nat will jump right over the top of him at the centre bounces.
You could easily go with Cox to do the centre bounces and move forward. Grundy to move straight into the ruck after centre bounces. It'll help hitouts, but we'll lose in terms of Grundy's presence around the contest.
 
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I have been brooding all day after that loss because I was really frustrated with the performance. I know we are playing finals but we are not winning it in this year, I honestly believe we can beat WCE but having to travel to WA, quarantine, then come back to Brisbane and play a top 4 team is just too big a mountain to climb. All year I've felt we were a genuine chance of winning it, get Howe & Sidebottom back and a first up final at the Gabba and I seriously thought we were in with a chance, unfortunately the last few days have ended that with Sidebottom and Howe being confirmed gone for the season and the loss against Port.

As for the performance itself, it wasn't an spectacularly bad game and we certainly had the ball in the right areas enough to think that we could've won. My problem is that there is now a pattern of this team having similar performances in big games and losing; Port just then, Brisbane a few weeks ago, GWS or Richmond this year going further back or even the prelim last year. Games that we had genuine opportunities to win but didn't for very similar reasons.

While we can all see the problems I'm going to give my take on them:

-->Forward line that can't kick a winning score against good teams. Been a problem all year that if De Goey isn't on or Cox isn't getting the service he needs we really struggle to score. I am not an AFL expert so I can't tell you if its structural or if its because outside of De Goey and Cox our entire forward line is remarkably out of form. Thomas, Varcoe and Hoskin-Elliot didn't look like kicking a goal at all, whilst Mihocek has been poor since he was concussed and Greenwood doesn't offer much as a forward. I suspect the issues are more than just form but as I said I don't have the technical AFL knowledge to discuss the structures.

-->Poor ball use going inside 50. Outside of Pendlebury and Daicos we have no midfielders that can be trusted to hit a target inside 50. It is simply not good enough and is potentially a large reason why we don't kick a winning score, how many inside 50s were just nothing kicks to a big pack and how many kicks last night went straight to Dan Houston FFS.

-->Centre clearances are were disgraceful. Not winning a single one is pretty poor from what should be a good midfield. Grundy is a fantastic player but he needs to spend all offseason working with the mids and building some connection because 36 hitouts mean nothing if you don't win a bloody clearance. Another problem is that almost every other good team wins a centre clearance and pumps it inside 50, we win the ball and try to do 2 or 3 handballs for some reason. Must have been 3 or 4 times last night where we won the initial ball only to turn it over in the middle and let Port come away with it. Ridiculous.

-->We have too many players that when the heat is on and pressure is up, sh*t themselves and turn the ball over or fumble. I am not gonna name them because we all can see it but it includes some of our better players and it drives me insane. Against Brisbane it was particularly evident as some lads hand passed straight to opposition players on regular occasions but last night we made way too many dumb mistakes to win finals. It's concerning because its not a thing coaches can fix but rather a mental thing that has seeped its way into the playing group.


As for the positives; Quaynor and Daicos continued their impressive seasons, Quaynor in particular was exceptional last night and both players will be a mainstay of the 22 for years to come. The defence in general that has been so good was strong again, Dixon was anonymous excluding the Grundy brain fade in front of goal while none of the Port forwards looked particular dangerous. Madgen was pretty good playing on the 3rd tall and Tyler Brown had some impressive moments again but it is perhaps a year to soon for him to be a regularly strong contributor. Also a note on Stephenson who I thought was treated way too harshly by the commentators, he clearly doesn't have the strength to break tackles (glandular fever will do that) and is down on confidence but after an atrocious first half I thought he worked into the game ok. As shown by his goal he just has the knack of being dangerous in the 50, which Collingwood desperately needs.

I will conclude by saying that we do very much have the cattle to win a flag and I hope we crunch WCE in Perth. Yet 8th place is not good enough, we should be finishing ahead of WB & St Kilda at the least, so I would hope some hard questions get asked internally about what went wrong this year.

Floreat Pica.

Great post mate, I agree with all of it. We flogged both the Saints and Doggies. So to finish below them on the ladder (at this stage) really sums up our season in a nutshell.
 

jackcass

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Interestingly, our forward setup tonight was exactly the same as what we played in 2018 V Richmond and West Coast. That year Elliot did not play, this year he's in the middle to try and help win a clearance which has been an ongoing issue for the past 2 years.

I know we need a key fwd, but even on a night that Cox seemed to be dominant our mids still couldn't get the ball deep enough, quick enough or often enough for him to impact where it matters.

We lack another A grade mid, and have for years. T Brown will take time, C Brown is more a pressure small, Sier can't get right, Sidey is best placed on a wing, Wills doesn't do much more than tackle.

They tried to fix this via Wells, then Beams, and failed.

Yep, the Beams injury and the subsequent decline of his mental health really hurting us on field now. Given his absence and the blocks of games where Sidey, Treloar, Pendles, and Sier have all been unavailable, I'm disappointed we didn't trial Rantall earlier or even Bianco. They've both looked good in the limited scratch match footage we get, although Bianco did have his injury issues mid season. Probably too late to throw them to the wolves now. Hopefully the bye allows for Sier to return against the Weagles.
 
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We have a few deficiencies that's for sure.

But I lost count last night at how many times I yelled "where is the crumber???"

For all our problems, this might be our biggest...even worse than our need for a key forward.

That said, surely it has to be more structural than anything else. I mean how hard is it to tell a player to be at the feet of a forward. Surely any half decent footballer can be taught basic positioning for a crumb. The big issue is that its not even poor positioning, there is literally no one there!

Tells me our smalls are getting sucked too far in or just have no idea where to be or who to crumb to.

This needs to be sharpened up. Maybe you need to sacrifice Treloar or Elliott in the midfield...or tell Stephenson to simply stay at Cox's feet. Maybe Daicos is the one. Thomas, Varcoe and Brown are never there and don't kick goals.
 
You need to watch post press conference where Buckley made the following points:
- too much handball
- didnt take the long option enough
- failed to exploit their undersized defense

So by pointing out these problems he is clearly suggesting they are not part of the game plan.
If it's not part of the game plan, then he has lost the players because that's basically how they they have played all year and Buckley doesn't seem to have the ability to get them to rectify it.
 

No SPIN

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If it's not part of the game plan, then he has lost the players because that's basically how they they have played all year and Buckley doesn't seem to have the ability to get them to rectify it.

yeh - he’s lost the players that’s why we’re getting thumped by 10 goals every week and near the bottom of the ladder.
Any other BS theories.
 

cleomenes

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There is a lot to take from this game, both for Collingwood and the AFL.
For Collingwood, the game style is not the problem as nearly everyone here seems to think. Three things stood out in this game as major problems, as they have for some time.
1. Top teams are harder at the ball than we are. Individuals contradict this, but as a team, we are well down when it comes to the desperate smother type actions. There were a lot of occasions last night when we were breaking clear and someone got a hand or other body part in the way. Port had far fewer such holdups.
2. The handball game that gets so much criticism works, but only if the handballs are accurate and the receiver doesn't fumble. It is the skill failure that is the second problem. Many times the opportunity to give a good pass to a forward that was developing vanished as a poor handball or a fumble removed the time to do what was in the players mind. Some, like Stephenson , can't seem to handball with purpose on either hand. This was a problem before his confidence collapsed. He should have a big preseason of handball practice directed to hard running team mates.
3. Grundy and the midfield inexplicably don't work well together. I don't know why, but a lot of thought and practice has to go into this. It is surely remediable.

For the AFL,
1. there has to be a recognition that night time or evening football in the tropics is a disaster. TV has the whip hand now, and there is a real risk that the game will be killed by their demands.
2. The shorter quarters contribute to the low scoring tackle dominated game that is excruciating to watch. They have to go.
3. The coaches have to be stopped. Ours is a prime offender, but all the rest are little better. The rules have to be doctored, perhaps drastically, to prevent coaches from effectively shrinking the area in which the game is played. There are too many players on the field to allow them to gather in one third of the ground. That gathering is the nightmarish congestion that has me questioning whether I can stand to watch this game that I have avidly followed for 55 years.

Our team can improve a lot, just by getting listed players on the field, and improving some skills. The AFL risks the whole thing with its relentless pursuit of TV money, and its willingness to do whatever those financiers want to the game. McLaughlin and his cronies have poisoned the game and last night's game show highlighted the illness that they have caused.
Oh, and Port Adelaide did well all of the things that Collingwood didn't. And that was why they won. Their supporters would be pleased by the way their players did the job, but must have been disappointed by the dogged spectacle they presented in doing it. In an open game, they would have torn us apart, but I would rather see that then the stodgy stuff we call football these days.
 

partypie

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Pebbles was actually a very good ruckman, just didn't have the tank to do the role too often.

Expenditure over and above the footy department soft cap accrues an 85% tax. No team is doing it because it's just throwing money away. Wealth of the club is therefore irrelevant.

I think we're at a point now where both our ruck and stoppage coaching need a serious reconsider. There's such a horrible disconnect at the moment between Grundy and our midfielders and it's a massive impediment to our onfield performance.

I suspect that there's clearly something up with Grundy physically as well which we will probably find out after our season is done because he just doesn't look right, but looking past that what's happening at stoppages is a disaster given the contested ball assets we have in there.

Throwing our hands up and accepting the status quo because we can't throw bundles of cash at the problem isn't an appropriate response because it's just not working.
 

jackcass

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I think we're at a point now where both our ruck and stoppage coaching need a serious reconsider. There's such a horrible disconnect at the moment between Grundy and our midfielders and it's a massive impediment to our onfield performance.

I suspect that there's clearly something up with Grundy physically as well which we will probably find out after our season is done because he just doesn't look right, but looking past that what's happening at stoppages is a disaster given the contested ball assets we have in there.

Throwing our hands up and accepting the status quo because we can't throw bundles of cash at the problem isn't an appropriate response because it's just not working.

I’m certainly not wedded to any of our current coaches, I was merely highlighting that Pebbles was a very good ruckman. He’s also had Rendell and even Peter Moore on occasions in support. The “Grundy needs a specialist ruck coach” view just ignores all of that. Now if they were to part ways with Pebbles and arrange for someone like Simon Madden to do some specialist sessions I’d be okay with that, but I don’t know how much it would change Grundy’s execution of the craft, if at all.

I’m also not certain the disconnect is overly on Grundy. Opposition mids have no trouble reading him.
 

Magnanimous

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Before everyone gets here and loses the plot I wanna try and have a level headed say.

I personally don’t think we played that badly. They just showed us what it takes to reach the next level. They hardly put a foot wrong, we fumbled. We matched them fairly well in the physical aspect of the game, and defended decently, but they did it better.

There’s no real other way to put it, the amount of impactful mistakes was the difference, and we made more.

West Coast defend similarly to Port, so I hope we can do our homework and try and work it out, because they’ve had our number for too long now.

Good call, expected to be blown away and certainly appeared to be that kind of night after the first 20 seconds.

It appears we are an A grade midfielder with extraction qualities short and always seem to be robbing Peter to pay Paul with our field placements.

I think we will do similar things again and bow out in week 1.

Going to need to make some tough decisions at the selection table and no use going in with the same team, same plan or we will get the same result. Time to be bold with a free hit.

I would go for some date and being in Kelly Maine Rusco and Reid in. Time for Varcoe, Brown, Thomas and Stevenson to have a rest.

I would play Cox at Centre bounces and Grundy to Ruck around the ground.

Just need to not slow the game down, we always seem to be at our best when moving on instead of holding it up and kicking straight to opposition.

Lost count how many kicks went into F50 straight to an unmanned opposition player.

Whatever happens at years end there simply has to be some fresh faces in the coaches box, looking for Ruck, Midfield and Forward coaches.







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This was something I noticed a lot. Port players would run 2-3m over the mark every time. Umpire would call him back, Port player wouldn't move. Pay the 50m you fu**in maggot! It kept happening and they got away with it each time.
Every club in the comp seems to do this except us. We actually sit off the mark 2m - 3m metres instead. Shits me to no end...
 

KJaY32

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When I saw Bucks in the box in the last and after the game, the look on his face was like he didn't have an answer, like he lost belief. Certainly hope not that would be very damaging to some of the playing group.:(
I gave up as well same issues every week. Same presser every week. I believe bucks relaxed a bit in 2018 as he Needed to try a new approach( he actually said this) but I feel like he has got his grip on the team again as we have had the same issues every year except 2018
 

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