Preview Round 18 vs Fremantle at Optus Stadium

Status
Not open for further replies.
Funnily enough Horse is the one paid good money to coach at the highest level and you're not.

I imagine, for instance, a contributing factor in Jack's favour would be the absence of a runner.

These decisions in part at least cost us last week where we lost to Carlton. I'm sorry but I'll call a spade a spade. We lost that at the selection table. Jack on an even bigger ground in Perth will be laughable.
 
The decision to "assess" is an arbitrary one. It doesn't of itself mean the impact was medium.

If our season was still alive I have no doubt we'd have appealed that.

It's silly, but it's the way they have done it all year. Can't say they weren't consistent. It's on the softer side, but if you get someone high, prepare to pay the consequences. Dawson will learn.
 
Jan 13, 2007
14,553
17,676
Melbourne
AFL Club
Sydney
These decisions in part at least cost us last week where we lost to Carlton. I'm sorry but I'll call a spade a spade. We lost that at the selection table. Jack on an even bigger ground in Perth will be laughable.

Thing is, you don't call a spade a spade. You just label everyone who doesn't meet your expectations of dynamism "cooked" or worse. We didn't lose at the selection table. We lost in front of goal, at the ruck contests, and most crucially in our reading of the bounce of the ball. We adjusted horribly to the surface conditions.
 
Jan 13, 2007
14,553
17,676
Melbourne
AFL Club
Sydney
It's silly, but it's the way they have done it all year. Can't say they weren't consistent. It's on the softer side, but if you get someone high, prepare to pay the consequences. Dawson will learn.

Witts and McKernan didn't pay the consequences. If the season was alive, we'd have appealed. Dawson's probably sore anyway, or it's been decided he could use a week. That was certainly a contestable penalty.
 
Thing is, you don't call a spade a spade. You just label everyone who doesn't meet your expectations of dynamism "cooked" or worse. We didn't lose at the selection table. We lost in front of goal, at the ruck contests, and most crucially in our reading of the bounce of the ball. We adjusted horribly to the surface conditions.

So are you finally going to admit that just maybe we need to do some goal kicking practice now?

Jack is cooked, he was poor last year, he has been even worse this year. Our best games and form have been when he wasn't in the side. I'm all for giving him and McVeigh a farewell game, but lets build for next year and beyond, playing guys that aren't going to be here isn't what I call worthwhile.
 
Bizarre that we didn’t even attempt to challenge Dawson’s ban. We would’ve had a good case IMO.

Really beginning to think we don’t want to do anything to upset the AFL these days..

Afl control us too much
 
Witts and McKernan didn't pay the consequences. If the season was alive, we'd have appealed. Dawson's probably sore anyway, or it's been decided he could use a week. That was certainly a contestable penalty.

The McKernan one was bad, but one poor decision doesn't mean you make another. I would have loved for him to not get a week, but I expected he would.
 
Jan 13, 2007
14,553
17,676
Melbourne
AFL Club
Sydney
So are you finally going to admit that just maybe we need to do some goal kicking practice now?

Jack is cooked, he was poor last year, he has been even worse this year. Our best games and form have been when he wasn't in the side. I'm all for giving him and McVeigh a farewell game, but lets build for next year and beyond, playing guys that aren't going to be here isn't what I call worthwhile.

I'm scratching my head to remember when I denied such a thing (goalkicking practice). I don't think I've ever discussed it. I don't think Lockett is employed to scratch his bum and I don't think the problem is a practice one but a mindset one. I have no doubt Hayward will recover his mojo.

There are a whole host of factors that should come into the selection decisions for the remainder of the year, and I acknowledge that the goalposts have shifted, but only marginally.

I wouldn't be playing players that aren't ready "just to have a look at them". That's just silly. There's no merit in sending a kid out to get a hiding.

I think Stoddart is ready, and there is an appropriate spot available for him with Cunningham out. I don't think McInerney is ready.

I have 2 exceptions to that. One exception to the above is in the ruck. I think we need to select Amartey or Knoll if only to protect Aliir and Reid.

The other is if there is a player who might be headed for delisting and they might be a player who improves with the higher grade. Now I doubt that Bell is targeted for delisting but if he was, I'd give him a few senior games. He just might be that type.

Another thing I'd do is put Buddy and Naismith out to pasture. I don't think there's any utility in playing either for 3 matches at the end.

So even if Jack was cooked, I'd still be playing him ahead of a McInerney or Foot. And I'd be prioritising the "learning process" of the Roses and Ronkes over playing them in the seniors if that "learning process" has them playing Reserves.
 
So you're suggesting we play KJ in the ones, irrespective of his form.

I see great value in KJ playing a quasi captain coach in the 2s. I don't think Reid Heeney Parker and JPK etc would benefit KJ being in the ones
 
So you're suggesting we play KJ in the ones, irrespective of his form.

I see great value in KJ playing a quasi captain coach in the 2s. I don't think Reid Heeney Parker and JPK etc would benefit KJ being in the ones

This! Rather see him captain the NEAFL side imo.
 
Jan 13, 2007
14,553
17,676
Melbourne
AFL Club
Sydney
So you're suggesting we play KJ in the ones, irrespective of his form.

I see great value in KJ playing a quasi captain coach in the 2s. I don't think Reid Heeney Parker and JPK etc would benefit KJ being in the ones

I think without a runner there's a huge role for Jack to play in the seniors. And I suspect he's been playing it. He wasn't our worst player on Saturday.
 
L LPO o
I think without a runner there's a huge role for Jack to play in the seniors. And I suspect he's been playing it. He wasn't our worst player on Saturday.


Bruce, the point is KJ is not a runner anymore. KJ was the worst of a poor bunch last week.
 

Ralphyboy

All Australian
May 25, 2016
631
2,097
AFL Club
Sydney
This! Rather see him captain the NEAFL side imo.
KJ is considered one of the best people at the club. The young players in the neafl love it when he plays with them. The neafl have a bye this week then take on Brisbane again. The Brisbane NEAFL side is the closest some of them will get to playing AFL level players this year. The Brisbane side is all listed players (as they have no injuries) and lots of them are 3-4th year players. If the swans can get 15+ listed players in the side and the absolute best of the toppies they could give Brisbane a real crack. It would be great if KJ could lead them in this challenge. They could really learn a lot from him.
 

The Gong

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 24, 2012
6,774
14,382
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Northern Districts Tigers
Well that's bulls**t. Leaving aside his goal and other contributions he statistically wasn't the worst.
That's not a glowing reference though for a senior player. If a young player has a bad game it's part of their development to learn from their mistakes. If you bring in a senior player on the wrong side of 30 then you'd expect them to be doing a job for you.

I was one of those saying that KJ brings experience and mentoring into the side but the truth is his form at senior level is not up to scratch enough to justify that. I'd much rather he leads in the 2s and we give a younger player a good opportunity to get experience at senior level. We're not playing finals and there's only six weeks left.
 
Jan 13, 2007
14,553
17,676
Melbourne
AFL Club
Sydney
That's not a glowing reference though for a senior player. If a young player has a bad game it's part of their development to learn from their mistakes. If you bring in a senior player on the wrong side of 30 then you'd expect them to be doing a job for you.

I was one of those saying that KJ brings experience and mentoring into the side but the truth is his form at senior level is not up to scratch enough to justify that. I'd much rather he leads in the 2s and we give a younger player a good opportunity to get experience at senior level. We're not playing finals and there's only six weeks left.

And that may well be the way Horse goes. He may also decide that those younger players might have a better development experience at NEAFL level, and taking into account a number of factors (including, as I have said, the absence of a runner) Jack's best contribution may be made at senior level.

I guess what I'm resisting is the notion that Jack should be chucked out and that it is an indictment on Horse if he isn't, which is the narrative being pursued on the other side of the argument.

If we had a fully fit side and we were chasing a top 4 spot, the scenario may well be different.
 
Jul 20, 2001
23,298
28,498
Sydney
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Sydney Swans
These decisions in part at least cost us last week where we lost to Carlton. I'm sorry but I'll call a spade a spade. We lost that at the selection table. Jack on an even bigger ground in Perth will be laughable.

I can certain understand your want for Jack to not play seniors at this point. I am supportive of that (all I’ve said in the past is I understand why they might choose to select him).

However, if you think selecting any of Rose, Stoddart, Amartey or Knoll etc was the difference (“lost that at the selection table”), you’re kidding yourself.
 
I can certain understand your want for Jack to not play seniors at this point. I am supportive of that (all I’ve said in the past is I understand why they might choose to select him).

However, if you think selecting any of Rose, Stoddart, Amartey or Knoll etc was the difference (“lost that at the selection table”), you’re kidding yourself.

Have to disagree here. We lost by 1 goal and 1 point, and our best goal-keeper who has stopped countless goals this year was busy playing in the ruck.

It was literally the difference between winning and losing.
 
Jul 20, 2001
23,298
28,498
Sydney
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Sydney Swans
Have to disagree here. We lost by 1 goal and 1 point, and our best goal-keeper who has stopped countless goals this year was busy playing in the ruck.

It was literally the difference between winning and losing.

This is assuming they selected a ruck, but no consideration of getting further smashed in the ruck and around the ground? Would the others two options have gotten 15 disposals and 7 inside 50s and 7 clearances?

That’s a bit too simple for me. Definitely no grounds for it “literally” being the difference in determining the result.

In any case they went for a small, so the like to like comparison is selecting another small instead of Jack. I doubt that would have made a material difference.
 
Looks like doubtfuls for Fremantle are:
  • Stephen Hill could be sidelined yet again by quad soreness - Hill is not "100 per cent"
  • Hogan suffering a hiccup with his sore foot this week - arrived at the club nursing a navicular issue, was pushing to return after a month layoff
  • Sandilands was rested in Launceston - has pulled up sore after a match simulation session
https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-07...ash-fires-up-ross-on-freos-bad-news-wednesday

Swans outs:
Dawson (suspended), Cunningham (injured), Jack
Possible in:
  • rucks:Amartey/Knoll
  • Fox (for Dawson)
  • Clarke for Cunningham
I'd keep Hayward and Ronke in - let them run @ Optus
 
No one rostered for previews this week so added one myself - just a short one.


At the moment Kirkswan is up next for the Geelong game at the SCG
If anyone's interested in doing a write up we still need someone to do GWS in R20 and Melbourne in R22
 
This is assuming they selected a ruck, but no consideration of getting further smashed in the ruck and around the ground? Would the others two options have gotten 15 disposals and 7 inside 50s and 7 clearances?

That’s a bit too simple for me. Definitely no grounds for it “literally” being the difference in determining the result.

In any case they went for a small, so the like to like comparison is selecting another small instead of Jack. I doubt that would have made a material difference.

I'm sorry Masey but it "literally" was the difference. The guy who saves multiple scoring opportunities from happening every week was not there to do so. Multiple scoring opportunities happened for the Blues, and they got the crucial goal and behind out of it.

Coaching is very difficult, match selection committee have a very complicated job. But sometimes footy really is that simple.
 
Looks like doubtfuls for Fremantle are:
  • Stephen Hill could be sidelined yet again by quad soreness - Hill is not "100 per cent"
  • Hogan suffering a hiccup with his sore foot this week - arrived at the club nursing a navicular issue, was pushing to return after a month layoff
  • Sandilands was rested in Launceston - has pulled up sore after a match simulation session
https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-07...ash-fires-up-ross-on-freos-bad-news-wednesday

Swans outs:
Dawson (suspended), Cunningham (injured), Jack
Possible in:
  • rucks:Amartey/Knoll
  • Fox (for Dawson)
  • Clarke for Cunningham
I'd keep Hayward and Ronke in - let them run @ Optus

What is it about these Perth teams and having no idea how to manage their rucks!!
 
Jul 20, 2001
23,298
28,498
Sydney
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Sydney Swans
I'm sorry Masey but it "literally" was the difference. The guy who saves multiple scoring opportunities from happening every week was not there to do so. Multiple scoring opportunities happened for the Blues, and they got the crucial goal and behind out of it.

Coaching is very difficult, match selection committee have a very complicated job. But sometimes footy really is that simple.

Going to have to agreed to disagree.

Aliirs clearances potentially becomes Carlton’s and therefore more inside 50s and scoring opportunities.

You can’t ignore all the factors imo, but we will leave it at that. It’s all crystal ball stuff that is impossible to determine with hindsight.
 
Going to have to agreed to disagree.

Aliirs clearances potentially becomes Carlton’s and therefore more inside 50s and scoring opportunities.

You can’t ignore all the factors imo, but we will leave it at that. It’s all crystal ball stuff that is impossible to determine with hindsight.

Happy to agree to disagree, but I do think using hindsight is a massive cop-out for Horse & the MC.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back