Autopsy Round 19, 2021: Adelaide defeat Hawthorne

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Apr 19, 2006
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So we almost beat Melbourne. Bring in Scrimshaw, Hardwick and Wingard, yet didn't want to win?

Moreso, you're questioning the integrity of Clarko and Sam?

Lol.
I’m not questioning their integrity at all.

We went into this game with the exact same midfield set up that hasn’t worked for 12 months plus, and we refused to adjust or change it.
How many posters here are asking why we won’t run Bramble through the middle?

Better yet, we let Laird do as he pleased, which simply does not happen if we are truly going all out for the win, and Shiels is out there.
 

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eldorado

Previously eldorado
Oct 18, 2003
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If Kosi were to go back to defence, it is as the logical successor to Hartigan, and longer term, Frost.

Of our big men, he would be the most flexible.

The question then, is, how much do we affect their development by swinging them around so much?

Some might suggest this is a reason for TOB's lack of development (Of course, others may not ;))
 

Hawk Dork

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This comment has my interest .... Kosi came to the club having towelled up one of the King brothers in the U/18s as a defender. I wonder how much knowledge he has gained playing forward and whether he could translate this into his defensive game. From memory his first couple of years at the club were stop/start with injury anyway so we possibly cant be too critical of some early struggles. He is also still only young and we have Jeka and Callow as his replacements up forward. I have a preference for Jeka as he seems to be more of a natural lead up forward.

Would be interested in other people's opinion on this.
I wouldnt be surprised
him or Callow
The modern day equivalent of Roughy to CHB

You would need to have Jeka and Lewis to step up
 

Roger Rogerson

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I actually don't think he does anymore to be honest. He gives his all, but he's largely blue collar now to be honest...

His body has really let him down since joining us sadly. You can see it with his pace, jumping and depth of kicking... Seven goals this year, even splitting time midfield, is really underwhelming and a lifetime away from his peak years.

It's unpopular, but if a club offers a mid first rounder you take it in a heartbeat. I'd be really surprised if Sam doesn't entertain a trade.
I agree. Not having any significant impact for us.
 
Apr 19, 2006
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I actually don't think he does anymore to be honest. He gives his all, but he's largely blue collar now to be honest...

His body has really let him down since joining us sadly. You can see it with his pace, jumping and depth of kicking... Seven goals this year, even splitting time midfield, is really underwhelming and a lifetime away from his peak years.

It's unpopular, but if a club offers a mid first rounder you take it in a heartbeat. I'd be really surprised if Sam doesn't entertain a trade.
Oh, you want to trade Wingard?

Geez, this is new for you.
 

Roger Rogerson

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Pretty spot on. But round 1 next year we can replace this lot with,
Horne
Jiath
Day
Impey
Gunston
Sicily
Mitchell

It can change very quickly.
Not as simple as that there are always 5 or 6 injuries. We need to turn over my group on the list and replace them as they are all defective players. Your group is quality no doubt.
 

Jazzfan

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Apr 12, 2021
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I’m not questioning their integrity at all.

We went into this game with the exact same midfield set up that hasn’t worked for 12 months plus, and we refused to adjust or change it.
How many posters here are asking why we won’t run Bramble through the middle?

Better yet, we let Laird do as he pleased, which simply does not happen if we are truly going all out for the win, and Shiels is out there.
You can't have it both ways mate. That's exactly questioning their integrity. Exactly.
 

Mrzohs

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Oct 9, 2014
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I did say don't excited after the Melbourne game, not many listened.

I will repeat we are fair few midfielders short, a top 2 pick and two picks around 20,21 are sought after. I would trade any player for another top 10 given our current status if possible.
 

Bardo State

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This comment has my interest .... Kosi came to the club having towelled up one of the King brothers in the U/18s as a defender. I wonder how much knowledge he has gained playing forward and whether he could translate this into his defensive game. From memory his first couple of years at the club were stop/start with injury anyway so we possibly cant be too critical of some early struggles. He is also still only young and we have Jeka and Callow as his replacements up forward. I have a preference for Jeka as he seems to be more of a natural lead up forward.

Would be interested in other people's opinion on this.
The club saw him training as a defender for 2 seasons and didn't see anything to get excited about. They chucked him forward in pre-season and liked what they saw so much that he was in round 1.

To me, Kosi up forward is the definition of 'raw'. He's so quick and agile, and has a good knack of floating back and sideways into pockets of space up forward. If the ball is kicked to his advantage, he reads it pretty quick and his opponent rarely has a chance.

Early in the season, his hands were very hard and he's made real progress on sticking marks under contact. Similarly, he has always been quick and aggressive but wasn't actually a great pressure player early because he wasn't getting to contests. He's up around adequate now. He needs to be more competitive as an option straight up the line at the kicker. He has to get more involved.

He has a lot to learn. But I'd ask this: what do Hawthorn really gain if he goes back and becomes an adequate kpd? What can he provide that the group of Hartigan, Frost, DGB, Sicily, Day, Scrim etc (collectively) won't for the next 5 years? Maybe a bit of flexibility and depth.

What can he provide if we stick with him up forward? He could be one of the best pressure tall forwards in the game (imo). He could be a nightmare match up who can beat third talls in the contest and true KPDs on the ground. He could do this in a position where we are screaming out for quality.

The difference in upside to Hawthorn with him forward is really clear I reckon.
 

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Roger Rogerson

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You sure mate?

24 disposals. 8 clearances. 5 tackles. 6 inside 50’s. 4 goal assists. 6 score involvements. Running at 83% disposal efficiency.
Yep I'd consider trading him for the right deal. One of few with value that we have. You can throw stats at me all you like. Has lost speed and missing too many games with injury.
 

Jazzfan

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Only your 4th account to push the idea.

Not like he must have ****** your sister or anything like that.
Ha fair.

I'm just not emotional with it mate. Like I've said, I was wrong to ever question his character and want, but the outputs been pretty average as a Hawk. For what we expected.

I think given Sam didn't recruit him, he'd be open to a trade. Just my view.
 

burner1

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I’m not questioning their integrity at all.

We went into this game with the exact same midfield set up that hasn’t worked for 12 months plus, and we refused to adjust or change it.
How many posters here are asking why we won’t run Bramble through the middle?

Better yet, we let Laird do as he pleased, which simply does not happen if we are truly going all out for the win, and Shiels is out there.
Clarko has stuck to the same failing midfield mix for years - why would he change it now?

We also rarely put on a hard tag and normally stick to our structures. I think shiels may have been running with Seedsman and we put worpel on laird in last quarter (which didn’t work). We were in the game and probably didn’t want to change up our midfield too much as were winning the clearances.

These two pieces are just Clarko being Clarko. He’s stubborn. To imply it’s evidence of tanking is drawing a very long bow. It’s unfortunately more likely the stubbornness and failure to change things which is why his contract wasn’t renewed.
 

PenAndPaperJosh

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Oct 17, 2011
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Ha I love this continual point people make.

Like hey, it's not me, it's my colleagues fault I am not performing well. I don't have a say in it.

If that works, he has a career in politics after footy. Lol
He's performing well though, he had 24 disposals at 83%, 5 tackles, 8 clearances & 6 score involvements last night. He was one of, if not, our best.

When we play him primarily forward of course he's going to do less considering our lack of i50's and lack of any decent entry but when he plays midfield for extended periods he plays well.

What do you want him to do? Have 30 and kick 3 every week in this team?
 
Apr 19, 2006
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Your local Satanist Cabal
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Ha fair.

I'm just not emotional with it mate. Like I've said, I was wrong to ever question his character and want, but the outputs been pretty average as a Hawk. For what we expected.

I think given Sam didn't recruit him, he'd be open to a trade. Just my view.
LOL. Not emotional with it?

You’ve had four accounts threadbanned from the wingard thread because it always ends up with you questioning his character, his commitment, the trade we made and how we need to trade him.

“not emotional with it”. 😂
 

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