Autopsy Round 19, 2021: Adelaide defeat Hawthorne

[Billyc]

We are not tanking. That’s just being in denial. And it’s not how Clarkson operates. We brought Hardwick and Wingard in for Newcombe and Jeka. We picked a short-term side to win the game, and lost. That’s just where we are at.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Clarko has stuck to the same failing midfield mix for years - why would he change it now?

We also rarely put on a hard tag and normally stick to our structures. I think shiels may have been running with Seedsman and we put worpel on laird in last quarter (which didn’t work). We were in the game and probably didn’t want to change up our midfield too much as were winning the clearances.

These two pieces are just Clarko being Clarko. He’s stubborn. To imply it’s evidence of tanking is drawing a very long bow. It’s unfortunately more likely the stubbornness and failure to change things which is why his contract wasn’t renewed.

Yes, it’s Clarkson being Clarkson, it’s also Clarkson refusing to bend to assure a win.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

We are not tanking. That’s just being in denial. And it’s not how Clarkson operates. We brought Hardwick and Wingard in for Newcombe and Jeka. We picked a short-term side to win the game, and lost. That’s just where we are at.

We are not tanking.

Are we going all out to win? Not at all.

 

[Gene Simmons]

Ha fair.

I'm just not emotional with it mate. Like I've said, I was wrong to ever question his character and want, but the outputs been pretty average as a Hawk. For what we expected.

I think given Sam didn't recruit him, he'd be open to a trade. Just my view.

One of the things I loved about Clarko coming into the club as an outsider was that he had no emotional connection with players... He effectively traded/retired long standing sweethearts like McCabe, Tallis, Barker, Holland, Hay, Thompson, Graham, Clarke..etc within 1-2 years of being there..

Let's prey that Sam can put any allegiances aside and make those tough calls.

 

[Jazzfan]

LOL. Not emotional with it?

You’ve had four accounts threadbanned from the wingard thread because it always ends up with you questioning his character, his commitment, the trade we made and how we need to trade him.

“not emotional with it”.

Ha. Well I should have said 'no longer'...

To be fair, the last ban was bullshit anyhow.

 

[Endorphin Machine]

Wingard- he may be talented but he’s done * all in the big scheme of things.

 

[Manila_Hawk]

Yes, it’s Clarkson being Clarkson, it’s also Clarkson refusing to bend to assure a win.

Agreed SYL.

Once the media frenzy has died down... our tribal warcries have subsided... and the wagons are no longer circled...

The board has made the correct decision. Clarko's message has got stale and he refuses to bend.

 

[Lickmesocks]

Howe is absolutely not a terrible kick, infact he is a very good kick.

We will have to agree to disagree on that one .

 

[Kanga Commando]

Unfortunately you can’t polish a turd…

last night is the same old same old we have trotted out for the last 3 seasons, we win a few games we shouldn’t and we regularly drop 50/50 games. No A grade talent to get us over the line in 50/50 games.

I'm so sick of hearing the "lack of polish" line....

 

[Mrzohs]

Howe is absolutely not a terrible kick, infact he is a very good kick.

Definitely not a terrible kick,
also definitely not a elite kick.

Howe can spot up targets over 20-30 meters all day. Will quite often kick a high floating ball when switching play or down the line over 40meters

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Do you think we are going all out to win?

We're going pretty hard, effort is up we won the contested ball count last night I think ? Our loss was more down to a lack of skill as opposed to a lack of effort.

 

[Stratton_Gun]

Despite the loss to a team in a similar position, some real positives to take away

Ned Reeves: If he kicks on he could be our ruck for the next 10 years. Can mark, good tap work. Isn't great with the ball at his feet but what 6'10" bloke is


Lachie Bramble: Hard to believe this bloke was playing for Sunbury last year. Cool and composed. Great find

Dylan Moore

13

Dylan Moore

Age

24

Ht

177cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.9

3star

K

5.1

2star

HB

6.7

4star

M

4.4

4star

T

2.9

4star

G

0.3

3star

No current season stats available

D

12.2

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

5.4

5star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

: Had him pencilled in as one of those mediocre, dime a dozen small forwards who last a couple of years only but has really kicked on this year. Great kick for goal, nuggety and tough

Lewis: Haven't been his biggest fan since last year but showed his potential tonight.

The negative for me is that Worpel had a shocker. He's not Dusty, he's not fast enough to evade tackles and his kicking isn't elite enough to go for the pinpoint targets he does

 

[HODGEYROAD]

We are not tanking.

Are we going all out to win? Not at all.

Are Adelaide going all out to win ? Not at all. I think you just have to accept that this is the position we're currently at, arguably the worst side in the comp.

 

[Hawker1167]

Despite the loss to a team in a similar position, some real positives to take away

Ned Reeves: If he kicks on he could be our ruck for the next 10 years. Can mark, good tap work. Isn't great with the ball at his feet but what 6'10" bloke is


Lachie Bramble: Hard to believe this bloke was playing for Sunbury last year. Cool and composed. Great find

Dylan Moore: Had him pencilled in as one of those mediocre, dime a dozen small forwards who last a couple of years only but has really kicked on this year. Great kick for goal, nuggety and tough

Lewis: Haven't been his biggest fan since last year but showed his potential tonight.

The negative for me is that Worpel had a shocker. He's not Dusty, he's not fast enough to evade tackles and his kicking isn't elite enough to go for the pinpoint targets he does

totally agree here and yes as for Worps he thinks he is a bit of a Dusty Martin but he isn’t and has to go back to the simple things and more importantly use the first option

 

[Wingnut19]

Look I'm frustrated too but there's no way we can get rid of all 4 - that's ridiculous. You think we're bad now - imagine Cousins was our number 1 inside mid? We get rid of all 4 and we lose every game by close to 100 points. We were terrible going inside 50 but actually had the ascendency in the middle. We'd barely win a contest in there with all of them gone.

Yeah understood. But what’s the other option? Keep them all and still lose to the bottom teams and get a bit closer to the better sides. We may as well rip the bandaid off. A first round pick isn’t gonna be any worse than what they’re providing now in my opinion. They can’t kick over a jam tin. They actually make us worse!

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Are Adelaide going all out to win ? Not at all. I think you just have to accept that this is the position we're currently at, arguably the worst side in the comp.

Oh, I have more than accepted it.

 

[Accipiter]

The club saw him training as a defender for 2 seasons and didn't see anything to get excited about. They chucked him forward in pre-season and liked what they saw so much that he was in round 1.

To me, Kosi up forward is the definition of 'raw'. He's so quick and agile, and has a good knack of floating back and sideways into pockets of space up forward. If the ball is kicked to his advantage, he reads it pretty quick and his opponent rarely has a chance.

Early in the season, his hands were very hard and he's made real progress on sticking marks under contact. Similarly, he has always been quick and aggressive but wasn't actually a great pressure player early because he wasn't getting to contests. He's up around adequate now. He needs to be more competitive as an option straight up the line at the kicker. He has to get more involved.

He has a lot to learn. But I'd ask this: what do Hawthorn really gain if he goes back and becomes an adequate kpd? What can he provide that the group of Hartigan, Frost, DGB, Sicily, Day, Scrim etc (collectively) won't for the next 5 years? Maybe a bit of flexibility and depth.

What can he provide if we stick with him up forward? He could be one of the best pressure tall forwards in the game (imo). He could be a nightmare match up who can beat third talls in the contest and true KPDs on the ground. He could do this in a position where we are screaming out for quality.

The difference in upside to Hawthorn with him forward is really clear I reckon.

Thats a great insight Bardo, thanks for taking the time.

I'd love to see Kosi tearing it up in the forward line if he has it in him. My perspective around the upside of Kosi going back is partly to do with the age demographic. Hartigan is around the 30 and really only a stop gap measure for mine. I could see Sicily as the father figure down back with a stable of 20-23 year old backmen all growing together. I also see Kosi as a better match up on the King brothers and Hipwood types. The other thing is I am curious about the recruitment of Callow. This gives us four tall forwards competing for what has traditionally been two spots, which makes me think the door is not closed on Kosi returning to the back half ... I'm loving watching his development and hope he has a big future.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

The club saw him training as a defender for 2 seasons and didn't see anything to get excited about. They chucked him forward in pre-season and liked what they saw so much that he was in round 1.

To me, Kosi up forward is the definition of 'raw'. He's so quick and agile, and has a good knack of floating back and sideways into pockets of space up forward. If the ball is kicked to his advantage, he reads it pretty quick and his opponent rarely has a chance.

Early in the season, his hands were very hard and he's made real progress on sticking marks under contact. Similarly, he has always been quick and aggressive but wasn't actually a great pressure player early because he wasn't getting to contests. He's up around adequate now. He needs to be more competitive as an option straight up the line at the kicker. He has to get more involved.

He has a lot to learn. But I'd ask this: what do Hawthorn really gain if he goes back and becomes an adequate kpd? What can he provide that the group of Hartigan, Frost, DGB, Sicily, Day, Scrim etc (collectively) won't for the next 5 years? Maybe a bit of flexibility and depth.

What can he provide if we stick with him up forward? He could be one of the best pressure tall forwards in the game (imo). He could be a nightmare match up who can beat third talls in the contest and true KPDs on the ground. He could do this in a position where we are screaming out for quality.

The difference in upside to Hawthorn with him forward is really clear I reckon.

He actually played forward in a couple of scrimmages last year during hub life and raised some eyebrows.

 

[The hands of stone]

Crows are seriously young, playing 12-14 players sub 50 games most weeks.

Dylan Moore had a really good game.

Reeves was good in the ruck contests, but fair play to Riley O' Brien who was still massive around the ground with 24 touches and 7 or 8 marks or whatever it was.

If we do end up with Horne it isn't due to tanking, it's just due to us currently being the worst side in the comp.

Its about us making the most of the situation , get a high pick , hopefully get another one as well and nail the picks.

You then add Sicily/Gunston , Day/Jiath in and we look a lot better .

We are a bottom 4 side who really hasn't ever got our best side out there and its exposed weak areas in the team and list.
Ain't a bad thing .

Crows are young but so are we. They just had better finishers last night, if we played them again next week it's a 50/50 game .
Its a tight comp from 18th right through to about 10 .

 

[Hawker1167]

Yeah understood. But what’s the other option? Keep them all and still lose to the bottom teams and get a bit closer to the better sides. We may as well rip the bandaid off. A first round pick isn’t gonna be any worse than what they’re providing now in my opinion. They can’t kick over a jam tin. They actually make us worse!

i‘m definitely 50/50 on this one we need big bodies and experience around the kids as they develop or they will be banged up pretty bad

IMO is the link up into the forward line and the lack of pressure keeping the ball in there our backs are constantly fatigued they way the ball rebounds back into the oppositions forward line - not sure who the forward line coach is off hand but the message isn’t getting through to them - they constantly run to the same spots, they play from behinds ALOT, I know they are young but what do they practice at training, they need to seperate their opponents like they are doing to us - look at how may one one we had to negate to what our forwards produce.

the midfield has had a bad wrap and I have been one of them but if no one leads to the ball carriers if all the forwards are running away from the kicker towards goal it puts doubt in their minds and they end up bombing It we get out marked they run the ball out and the fatigues back line has to do it all again

 

[phreeze77]

What do you want him to do? Have 30 and kick 3 every week in this team?

For what we paid for him , yes …. That’s what we expect.

What we paid for Jaeger , we expect Dangerfield , Martin type performances…

We didn’t pay a high price for role players. They need to be the class …

What this shows is class is drafted with high picks not traded for.

Well at least for us.

 

[Accipiter]

Clarko has stuck to the same failing midfield mix for years - why would he change it now?

We also rarely put on a hard tag and normally stick to our structures. I think shiels may have been running with Seedsman and we put worpel on laird in last quarter (which didn’t work). We were in the game and probably didn’t want to change up our midfield too much as were winning the clearances.

These two pieces are just Clarko being Clarko. He’s stubborn. To imply it’s evidence of tanking is drawing a very long bow. It’s unfortunately more likely the stubbornness and failure to change things which is why his contract wasn’t renewed.

With regards to Clarko I have have the ultimate respect as a human-being and coach. But agree with the above as for me he has clearly plateaued. Happy to discuss this further in the appropriate thread.

 

[Pessimistic]

One of the things I loved about Clarko coming into the club as an outsider was that he had no emotional connection with players... He effectively traded/retired long standing sweethearts like McCabe, Tallis, Barker, Holland, Hay, Thompson, Graham, Clarke..etc within 1-2 years of being there..

Let's prey that Sam can put any allegiances aside and make those tough calls.

how many 2004 existing players were 2008 premiership players? Crawford was one

 

[The hands of stone]

I can see Kosi being an incredible tough matchup as a 2nd/3rd tall in a few seasons.

Just need to be patient with him . Once our side gets better, delivery gets better and the side get more synergy playing together it'll start to click .

 

[Hawthorn2023]

Despite the loss to a team in a similar position, some real positives to take away

Ned Reeves: If he kicks on he could be our ruck for the next 10 years. Can mark, good tap work. Isn't great with the ball at his feet but what 6'10" bloke is


Lachie Bramble: Hard to believe this bloke was playing for Sunbury last year. Cool and composed. Great find

Dylan Moore: Had him pencilled in as one of those mediocre, dime a dozen small forwards who last a couple of years only but has really kicked on this year. Great kick for goal, nuggety and tough

Lewis: Haven't been his biggest fan since last year but showed his potential tonight.

The negative for me is that Worpel had a shocker. He's not Dusty, he's not fast enough to evade tackles and his kicking isn't elite enough to go for the pinpoint targets he does

Give me 3 worpels in the middle, every day of the week.

He is accountable to his direct opponent, physical and does what he can to get the ball moving forward.

He is our best 2 way mid. Bramble & Newcombe will be handy additions in midfield rotation.