- Jun 17, 2018
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Looked a goal to me, the ball rides the line with a part of it over the line before it hits the ump.
Autopsy Round 19, 2021: West Coast v St.Kilda *SHARMAN DEBUT*
- Thread starter George
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Looked a goal to me, the ball rides the line with a part of it over the line before it hits the ump.
gringo2011
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I think Jones is really good when he plays like yesterday. He wasn't playing a complicated game, he just got the ball and moved it through traffic and got a kick away. He's a real point of difference. Like Hind, it just looks good seeing a guy tuck the ball under the arm and run like a greyhound. We have a lot of inside grunt but not much hint of difference. Jones is that.
Hill and Butler moved up to play around the ball. I think we saw an opportunity with a side without many inside ball winners available and changed it up. Crouch was back for Hill which didn't work and Leo seemed to play in Butlers role. I think Butler looked better but I'm not sure it ended up being a coaching masterstroke. I would have stuck with what had been working and exploited their lack of grunt. Watching Kelly tear us apart was hard to watch.
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- May 19, 2013
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We are a better side when Jones plays well
CaptainRisky
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It shouldn't have needed a score review if the nuffer kicked it
gringo2011
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Most sides don't play two stopper tall backs. Usually you have a deep fullback then an interceptor. Astbury was playing VFL for years as well and really only came on when Rance went down and then left. Most sides have to have a spare one in case of emergency and when you play a side like WCE who have 3 tall forwards you need an extra one to come in to patch holes. He plays messy and he made a couple of mistakes but I think he's improving every game. That's about all you can ask. We have plenty of others who can go first. I'd keep him and Joyce before Frawley and Carlisle.
gringo2011
Premium Platinum
Yeah I remember seeing Ross kick to him and thinking it was going to go 40 meters in the air and wobble over his head but it sat low and flat and gave no-one else a run at it. Another went over a pack and almost just landed in his hands unexpectedly. Some days everything works and his confidence looked sky high with each little win. Hopefully that's the future for him.
- Oct 18, 2011
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Agree with that.
Watching Clav, the thing that strikes me is that what you are "seeing" is not what you are actually getting. He's just got a really funny running style so you think he's unco but actually covers the ground OK.
I'd play him for the rest of the season.
gringo2011
Premium Platinum
I was thinking Ross was playing really well. He didn't make any mistakes and he looked involved and quick. I thought it was one of his better games for a while. He usually floats around looking lost since Dunstan came into the side.
gringo2011
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I thought Hunter and him looked unfashionable but they were far from our worst players. Playing a SANFL ruck against the premier ruckman of the last decade was hardly going to be one for the ages but he pressures and hurts with his clumsy movement. A few times when he played forward he pressured the kick and got us a turn over. He plays like a drunk wildebeest but he wasn't as bad as people made out. I was more disappointed in Membrey and Billings who just don't seem to lift their output in big games. Two weeks in a row from Membrey where we needed a guy to lead and he didn't turn up.
CaptainRisky
Premium Gold
You can sugar coat it anyway you want , in the end i don't have any faith he will make it
gringo2011
Premium Platinum
They just have too many tall leading forwards who operate well together then guys like Waterman who also kill you if you play to tight on their tall forwards.....then deliver well on top of that. When they play that game well they look unstoppable. We should have beat them in the midfield but changed things up too much. We tried to be unpredictable to make them accountable but we made ourselves lose our advantage and pressured the defence because of it.
gringo2011
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Veer Right
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I haven't said a word on him and in saying that i get what other people see, we expect more from him, a lot more. Ditto Billings.
The team needs it's "leaders" to stand up EVERY week, every quarter and put in not the level they want, the level we know they are capable of. Which is a pipe dream right now. Here's hoping Steeles talking about "setting standards" filters through and sets the tone for next year.
CaptainRisky
Premium Gold
Your right about others go before him , but i think he will be more Sandy than Saints
ValiantEel
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- Feb 21, 2011
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I agree that Jones is that running midfielder that we needed to recruit. I feel like Steele, Crouch and Dunstan are very similar players.
Hill statistically had an alright game but of his 24 disposals 23 were uncontested and 1 was contested. Looking at his stat count surprises me because I didn’t think he had that much of an impact.
Butler had one of his better games yesterday. He’s exciting to watch when he takes the game on.
In the second quarter, Kelly was dominating and Eagles were threatening. I thought I was about to witness another thumping but the positive is we didn’t just rollover and really took it to them albeit we still lost.
Our inside 50 efficiency was poor again. Eagles had 50% inside 50 efficiency and we had 43.1%. It’s costing us games. I will say Max King had a breakout game and I was excited for our future when he gets even better. I still would like support for him up forward.
gringo2011
Premium Platinum
I thought did yesterday. Billings, Membrey both dropped off when we needed them to stand up. Steele was well held too.
Thought Clavarino was ok. Needs to tidy up his kicking but seems to react quickly and well under the pump deep in defence.
Would play him for the last month of the season to find out if he is good enough. Need to find a long term key defender to go with Howard.
Would play him for the last month of the season to find out if he is good enough. Need to find a long term key defender to go with Howard.
gringo2011
Premium Platinum
Hill turned over a couple of really simple kicks again....at least not at critical times but for what ever reason he seems to have lost confidence in his kicking. He was running like the player we thought we were getting and he was back around the ball this week but it robbed the movement out of the backline. Crouch was the running defender and he was a big fail down back. Made masses of mistakes and lost his man constantly.....although I think he could have been on Cripps who is a hard player to contain and he didn't score heaps but set a bit up.
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That was Ratts that said that in his presser
CaptainRisky
Premium Gold
Your mate Butler was pretty good
gringo2011
Premium Platinum
gringo2011
Premium Platinum
He was heaps better but as an overall I think we would have been better with him up front and the mids set up like we were before the Port game.
ValiantEel
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Billings and Membrey aren’t match winners but role players. Jack Steele was held up very well but was still at his ferocious best with 13 tackles.
It could have gone a few different ways after half time. West Coast at home, with a crowd and good conditions are pretty much as good as any team. A game against a mediocre and depleted mid table side is their bread and butter, so I thought that our second half had substance to it.
King was enormous. He is going to an absolute nightmare for defenders. It’s all about confidence and the way we kick it into him. He doesn’t need crisp, perfect footy. He just needs a run and jump at it. We looked at our most dangerous yesterday when we kicked it from 70-90 metres from goal and quickly put it into the 50. He isn’t a lead up type. Nor is he a wrestler. Kick it long and quick and let him jump at it. He has some scary weapons. We need to build around him. There’s been a lot of commentary from fans about the way we use him, and the coaches have been vindicated somewhat here, on a few counts. I was certainly wrong about the Lloyd stuff. Club has kept it in house and that has been justified. One issue that I did back the club with was the positional use of him. There’s been plenty of calls to play him up the ground between the arcs as a marking target. His primary strength is his contested marking when he runs and leaps. It makes perfect sense to play him deep, particularly while his tank isn’t that advanced. He is going to be a pleasure to watch.
Butler finally looked like 2020 Butler. Broke lines, took the game on, used the ball pretty well and hit the scoreboard. Is a pity it has taken so long. Needs to bounce back next year with regular footy close to the level he is capable of.
Jones and Hill were bloody outstanding. I thought both of them played their role perfectly. Hill understands that a long kick to a pack is not just a last resort/throwaway kick if done properly. A long kick to a pack should be placed in a specific spot with a target in mind. Hill places long kicks in spaces that allow forwards to run onto it. Very few players do this. Most just sit it on top of a pack and it becomes a wrestling contest. Jones had an excellent inside/outside game. His inconsistency is really frustrating, but he is so effective when he plays like that.
Crouch on the other hand, had an awful game. There was plenty of talk prior to him coming over about his disposal, and until yesterday, I thought that chat was overplayed. He was really poor yesterday though. It’d be different if he was going for difficult kicks, but he took an eternity to get rid of it, made poor choices and executed bad skills all day. One clearance, five contested possessions and two tackles so he didn’t do his usual inside work either. Easily his worst game with the club. I reckon he’d be top five in the B&F and has been a really good pick up, but that was a really poor game of football.
Coffield was poor too, I thought. He got mildly better throughout the day, but it concerns me how long it takes him to work into games. It isn’t a new issue either. He does this regularly. He takes an eternity to make a decision with ball in hand. Not in a Hunter Clark way where his composure allows him to weigh up the options and evade tacklers. More in a Raph Clarke way where he just stands still and hesitates. The other concern I have with Coff is that his strengths seem to be limited to his uncontested intercept marking. Reading the play and taking intercept marks is a valuable quality, the elimination final against the dogs a prime example with his five intercept marks, but it can’t be your only asset. It is just really difficult to produce on a consistent basis, particularly when you don’t really play like a tall. After four years, I still don’t see many strengths Coffield has once the ball is in his hands. He doesn’t use his pace to break lines or use his kicking to penetrate zones. Highmore has the same strength of intercept marking, but he can play on the opposition’s third tall. Coffield can’t really play on talls, so he needs to take an opposition small. But not their most dangerous tall, as he doesn’t have the physicality or competitiveness for that role either. So, he pretty much needs to take the opposition’s weakest small forward and take several intercept marks to have an impact. I want him to work out as his intercept marking is good to watch when he’s going, and he looked like a really quality player in the second half of last year. It just concerns me that he needs too much to go right for him to play well.
Wilkie and Howard had pretty ordinary games too I thought. West Coast want defenders to play a back shoulder style and we played right into their hands. They play a kick-mark style where they hit up at the ball carrier. Short kicks and uncontested marks. Howard’s style is ideal for teams who kick the ball long to contests, but I thought we were slow to adapt to their ball movement.
Rambled on and became more negative than I intended. I found the loss one of the more encouraging losses we’ve had in a long time. Premiership tilts require several elite players at the core of them. We now look like we will have at least two over the next few years. We need to build around King and Steele, and hope that another 2-3 go along with them to become elite players in the comp.
King was enormous. He is going to an absolute nightmare for defenders. It’s all about confidence and the way we kick it into him. He doesn’t need crisp, perfect footy. He just needs a run and jump at it. We looked at our most dangerous yesterday when we kicked it from 70-90 metres from goal and quickly put it into the 50. He isn’t a lead up type. Nor is he a wrestler. Kick it long and quick and let him jump at it. He has some scary weapons. We need to build around him. There’s been a lot of commentary from fans about the way we use him, and the coaches have been vindicated somewhat here, on a few counts. I was certainly wrong about the Lloyd stuff. Club has kept it in house and that has been justified. One issue that I did back the club with was the positional use of him. There’s been plenty of calls to play him up the ground between the arcs as a marking target. His primary strength is his contested marking when he runs and leaps. It makes perfect sense to play him deep, particularly while his tank isn’t that advanced. He is going to be a pleasure to watch.
Butler finally looked like 2020 Butler. Broke lines, took the game on, used the ball pretty well and hit the scoreboard. Is a pity it has taken so long. Needs to bounce back next year with regular footy close to the level he is capable of.
Jones and Hill were bloody outstanding. I thought both of them played their role perfectly. Hill understands that a long kick to a pack is not just a last resort/throwaway kick if done properly. A long kick to a pack should be placed in a specific spot with a target in mind. Hill places long kicks in spaces that allow forwards to run onto it. Very few players do this. Most just sit it on top of a pack and it becomes a wrestling contest. Jones had an excellent inside/outside game. His inconsistency is really frustrating, but he is so effective when he plays like that.
Crouch on the other hand, had an awful game. There was plenty of talk prior to him coming over about his disposal, and until yesterday, I thought that chat was overplayed. He was really poor yesterday though. It’d be different if he was going for difficult kicks, but he took an eternity to get rid of it, made poor choices and executed bad skills all day. One clearance, five contested possessions and two tackles so he didn’t do his usual inside work either. Easily his worst game with the club. I reckon he’d be top five in the B&F and has been a really good pick up, but that was a really poor game of football.
Coffield was poor too, I thought. He got mildly better throughout the day, but it concerns me how long it takes him to work into games. It isn’t a new issue either. He does this regularly. He takes an eternity to make a decision with ball in hand. Not in a Hunter Clark way where his composure allows him to weigh up the options and evade tacklers. More in a Raph Clarke way where he just stands still and hesitates. The other concern I have with Coff is that his strengths seem to be limited to his uncontested intercept marking. Reading the play and taking intercept marks is a valuable quality, the elimination final against the dogs a prime example with his five intercept marks, but it can’t be your only asset. It is just really difficult to produce on a consistent basis, particularly when you don’t really play like a tall. After four years, I still don’t see many strengths Coffield has once the ball is in his hands. He doesn’t use his pace to break lines or use his kicking to penetrate zones. Highmore has the same strength of intercept marking, but he can play on the opposition’s third tall. Coffield can’t really play on talls, so he needs to take an opposition small. But not their most dangerous tall, as he doesn’t have the physicality or competitiveness for that role either. So, he pretty much needs to take the opposition’s weakest small forward and take several intercept marks to have an impact. I want him to work out as his intercept marking is good to watch when he’s going, and he looked like a really quality player in the second half of last year. It just concerns me that he needs too much to go right for him to play well.
Wilkie and Howard had pretty ordinary games too I thought. West Coast want defenders to play a back shoulder style and we played right into their hands. They play a kick-mark style where they hit up at the ball carrier. Short kicks and uncontested marks. Howard’s style is ideal for teams who kick the ball long to contests, but I thought we were slow to adapt to their ball movement.
Rambled on and became more negative than I intended. I found the loss one of the more encouraging losses we’ve had in a long time. Premiership tilts require several elite players at the core of them. We now look like we will have at least two over the next few years. We need to build around King and Steele, and hope that another 2-3 go along with them to become elite players in the comp.
Like I said a few weeks ago, must have been having secret meetingsDid Lloyd help?
