Autopsy Round 19, 2025: Hawks cut the Power

[Mercy Seat]

A step back? Almost all the teams we've played over the past couple of months have tagged Jai and reduced our midfield's potency as a result. Have those teams been taking a step back by doing so?

I keep hearing that using Finn, who's absolutely elite at tagging, as a tagger that negates the opposition's best player actually "messes with our structures" for some reason that I can't fathom. I would love to understand how and why that is the case.

With apologies to a federal senator that I'm no fan of: Please explain.

Our ball movement relies heavily on specific running patterns and how we spread when we win the ball back, especially from half-back. These structures are drilled into the players all pre-season and become second nature over the year. If you suddenly ask one of those players to abandon those patterns and focus solely on locking down an opponent, it changes how we defend and transition as a team.

Also worth saying, I don’t think Finn is in our best 22 once Day is fit. So it’s likely our system is built around having 22 players all playing within that framework, without a dedicated tagger.

I’m actually not against having Finn tag per se. But if the broader system has been built around not using one, I can see why Sam would be hesitant to throw it in on a week-to-week basis.

 

[Billyc]

It messes with our structures because clearly Sam would rather not run with a tag. Finn has been available for ages and against a lot of good midfields without being selected. Finn was used as a tagger in 2023 when we struggled, and he wasn't sighted as a tagger for most of 2024 and early 2025 as we were winning. He was shuffled out of that rotation when we started playing to win rather than playing to not lose.

So yes, it would be a step back. A step back to something we needed as a weaker team. I don't know how this could be anything else.

Disagree. Not with what you’re saying about Sam’s preferences this year, but with the merit of it.

We’ve lost to the best teams this year, mostly getting smashed in the midfield. Our midfield is weaker than the other sides still in it - clamping their best player (at least against some) gives us a better chance of advancing against the best sides between now and seasons end.

Finn should either tag, or not play.

 

[luciien]

Hardwick is up there with Goo and Andy Collins as a great of the HFC.

I hope he can step up to Gary Ayers level over the next couple of seasons.

 

[KermitJagger]

Disagree. Not with what you’re saying about Sam’s preferences this year, but with the merit of it.

We’ve lost to the best teams this year, mostly getting smashed in the midfield. Our midfield is weaker than the other sides still in it - clamping their best player (at least against some) gives us a better chance of advancing against the best sides between now and seasons end.

Finn should either tag, or not play.

You're not disagreeing with me then, you're agreeing.

 

[unitedhawk2]

It messes with our structures because clearly Sam would rather not run with a tag. Finn has been available for ages and against a lot of good midfields without being selected. Finn was used as a tagger in 2023 when we struggled, and he wasn't sighted as a tagger for most of 2024 and early 2025 as we were winning. He was shuffled out of that rotation when we started playing to win rather than playing to not lose.

So yes, it would be a step back. A step back to something we needed as a weaker team. I don't know how this could be anything else.

I take your point about Sam not wanting to run with a tag but still don't understand how that messes with our structures.

Is this messing with structures bit specific to Hawthorn?
Do other teams, including some very good ones, that run with taggers not have any structural issues with using them?
Didn't Geelong win three flags in five years with Cameron Ling, one of the best taggers ever, playing a crucial role? They certainly didn't seem to have any structural issues with it.

I'm still looking for an explanation for how why and using an elite tagger to shut down an opposing team's most potent player is not a positive for our team. To me, it makes as much sense as going out and recruiting a KPD, which is exactly what we did at the end of 2024, to shut down opposing KPF threats.

P.S. My partner, a Swans supporter, just looked over my shoulder as I was typing this. She's asked me not to forget that Brett Kirk won a flag too as a tagger in 2005.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Disagree. Not with what you’re saying about Sam’s preferences this year, but with the merit of it.

We’ve lost to the best teams this year, mostly getting smashed in the midfield. Our midfield is weaker than the other sides still in it - clamping their best player (at least against some) gives us a better chance of advancing against the best sides between now and seasons end.

Finn should either tag, or not play.

I agree Billy, our midfield is our Achilles Heel this year and although having Day back will improve it it's still going to be understrength against the very best midfield units we will face come finals.

GIven this I see merit in using Finn as a dedicated tagger for the rest of the year. If we can break even in the middle by using a tagger then we will have most teams covered up forward and down back.

And one thing I have noticed is coaches seem to really dislike having to deal with a tagger. It throws their systems out just as much as it does our own.

We are playing for a nil all draw in the middle but looking to score wins elsewhere on the field.

It might not be a traditional way to win a premiership but you have to work with what you have got.

 

[unitedhawk2]

Our ball movement relies heavily on specific running patterns and how we spread when we win the ball back, especially from half-back. These structures are drilled into the players all pre-season and become second nature over the year. If you suddenly ask one of those players to abandon those patterns and focus solely on locking down an opponent, it changes how we defend and transition as a team.

Also worth saying, I don’t think Finn is in our best 22 once Day is fit. So it’s likely our system is built around having 22 players all playing within that framework, without a dedicated tagger.

I’m actually not against having Finn tag per se. But if the broader system has been built around not using one, I can see why Sam would be hesitant to throw it in on a week-to-week basis.

Fair enough.

I reckon Finn shouldn't be playing if he isn't tagging - because if he's not tagging, he's not even in our top 30, let alone top 22/23.

 

[KermitJagger]

I take your point about Sam not wanting to run with a tag but still don't understand how that messes with our structures.

Is this messing with structures bit specific to Hawthorn?
Do other teams, including some very good ones, that run with taggers not have any structural issues with using them?
Didn't Geelong win three flags in five years with Cameron Ling, one of the best taggers ever, playing a crucial role? They certainly didn't seem to have any structural issues with it.

I'm still looking for an explanation for how why and using an elite tagger to shut down an opposing team's most potent player is not a positive for our team. To me, it makes as much sense as going out and recruiting a KPD, which is exactly what we did at the end of 2024, to shut down opposing KPF threats.

P.S. My partner, a Swans supporter, just looked over my shoulder as I was typing this. She's asked me not to forget that Brett Kirk won a flag too as a tagger in 2005.

Read Mercy Seat's post and then think about this.

What if they don't shut down the opposition's best player? You used Ling and Kirk as examples. Ling was both Geelong's captain and averaged 22 disposals and kicked goals, Kirk was Sydney's Captain and at his peak averaged 20 disposals a game. If they didn't shut down their opponent they were still contributing in other ways, great players and not just great stoppers.

If someone gets the better of Finn, though, it's a completely different story. When he's not stopping an opponent he is not at a good enough level anywhere else. Then you see how it impacts our structures.

 

[Lotus]

Really love the energy and sparks that BMac brought to the team. Feels like that's what Weddle normally do. So glad Sicily's playing well today. Can't wait for Thursday night

 

[SA HAWK]

Hardwick is up there with Goo and Andy Collins as a great of the HFC.

I hope he can step up to Gary Ayers level over the next couple of seasons.

If any current player in the team deserves a flag before he retires it is Hardwick.

 

[Flukey!]

I’m a bit excited about Dear.
He was so good today in conditions that shouldn’t really suit him.

 

[JRH]

I’m a bit excited about Dear.
He was so good today in conditions that shouldn’t really suit him.

I agree. Starting to look scary. Had a look in his eyes on the coverage like it’s getting serious. Getting thick in the legs. Guy could be a stone cold freight train soon.

 

[jenniferHAWKinS]

Quite happy for Meek, Newk, Day and Ward to go head to head with any starting midfield in the comp right now.

 

[The Jet From Poowong]

Despite today’s result, yet to be convinced that Barrass Battle Sicily and Scrimshaw is a balanced back line. But if it has to be a choice between Scrimshaw and CJ then I can live with that

Impey should be trialled forward for the next month with either Bmac or Seamus playing in defence. His pace, defensive pressure and ability above his head can be an asset in the F50. Probably too late in the season.

Chol and Day must come in next week

 

[kazzooka]

The media are completely dumb, he has not been coaching for weeks, think about it he has no headset for a start.

I remember talking with Parko a few years ago and in his last year at the Blues when Brittain was taking over, his headset was never on during game day, told by the hierarchy that this was the way it was to be that Brittain would coach from the boundary.

Worsfold last year at Essendon and Roos last year at Melbourne is a similar situation.

Ken is letting Carr take over and make his rookie mistakes and figure out his game plan for the team and Ken will take all the media heat off Carr's first year and next year Carr takes over.

Imagine if Ken wasn't this season after making a prelim last season, he gets the sack and Carr comes in and has this terrible season as head coach. Everyone would be questioning the sacking.

If Longmire were sacked instead of walking out we would be saying Sydney ****ed up too.

Last year's 1 and 2 (home and away) have already been ruled out of finals and are playing the last 5 games for 10th and 11th at best.

 

[Hawkspot]

The conditions helped port stay in it far longer than they deserved, but we kicked away eventually. Didn’t reach 50+ like I expected due to that but solid win anyway.

Sis looked pretty good I thought. Jars looks super dangerous as a forward. Dear is a nailed on best 18 player. Lewis stiff to return to this, but nice to have him out there.

Finn used as a tagger was a surprise, first time since early 2024. Glad they are testing it out again, it worked.

 

[Hodgey 15]

 

[Hodgey 15]

Not a game highlight but hell ...still worth a post.

 

[chippie]

I agree Billy, our midfield is our Achilles Heel this year and although having Day back will improve it it's still going to be understrength against the very best midfield units we will face come finals.

GIven this I see merit in using Finn as a dedicated tagger for the rest of the year. If we can break even in the middle by using a tagger then we will have most teams covered up forward and down back.

And one thing I have noticed is coaches seem to really dislike having to deal with a tagger. It throws their systems out just as much as it does our own.

We are playing for a nil all draw in the middle but looking to score wins elsewhere on the field.

It might not be a traditional way to win a premiership but you have to work with what you have got.

I think your middle paragraph is the pertinent one Simon. The idea is it throws the oppositions systems out even more than ours, which if it results in a win who cares about any other effects.

 

[MinerBoy]

Despite the conditions, Hawks still kicked the highest score of the 8 teams that participated in the 4 Saturday games.

 

[ahhhhhh]

I think your middle paragraph is the pertinent one Simon. The idea is it throws the oppositions systems out even more than ours, which if it results in a win who cares about any other effects.

Agree. What's the point of a 'system' if you aren't winning.

 

[Charade19]

Not a game highlight but hell ...still worth a post.

LMAO

 

[Roddy]

Despite the conditions, Hawks still kicked the highest score of the 8 teams that participated in the 4 Saturday games.

I’ve been thinking that to kick 87 points in those conditions against a reasonable side we’ve had trouble with in recent times was an excellent effort.

 

[Fleabane]

i sometimes wonder just how good Blake Hardwick is

he basically never loses a contest, never makes the wrong decision, can kick it 50+, play fwd and matches up on bigs/smalls

Also one of the very few yesterday who was able to pick the ball up cleanly in very difficult conditions. Really stood out.

 

[unitedhawk2]

Read Mercy Seat's post and then think about this.

What if they don't shut down the opposition's best player? You used Ling and Kirk as examples. Ling was both Geelong's captain and averaged 22 disposals and kicked goals, Kirk was Sydney's Captain and at his peak averaged 20 disposals a game. If they didn't shut down their opponent they were still contributing in other ways, great players and not just great stoppers.

If someone gets the better of Finn, though, it's a completely different story. When he's not stopping an opponent he is not at a good enough level anywhere else. Then you see how it impacts our structures.

Thanks - that point about Finn's lack of offensive threat if his tagging isn't working is the best argument I've heard thus far.

I trust the experiment with playing Finn as a non-tagger is over now. He's had enough chances - far more than some others - to prove himself (as a non-tagger) and, unfortunately, hasn't been able to take them.

If Sam's plan going forward, as we continue our upward curve, is to not use Finn as a tagger, I wonder what the club - and, pehaps more pertinently, Finn - will do if another club that intends to utilise his tagging talent comes calling in the trade period. Might be in everyone's interest if he takes up such an offer.