Review Round 19 - Port Adelaide vs GWS Giants, Saturday 27 July 2019, Adelaide Oval, 7.40 pm AEST

[Determinant]

Given Mumford and Simpson statistically played for Port are we better off going in without a ruck?
It's been done before where a quality set of mids simply shark off the oppo ruck against a token competitor for us.
Hell bring Briggs in, at least he can run and kick

 

[Danny88]

That was tough to watch. How good was Daniels, Haynes and Davis? I thought heather was good as well. Gee our disposal was horrible. Probably the worst game I’ve seen zac Williams play since he has been a regular. Him and Toronto seemed to just give it back each time!

Tommo was poor as well, I wonder if it’s a drop in form or a contract related thing?

 

[Gigantic]

Also, Port have similar problem of bombing into forward 50 that we do.

Their ability and tendency to do it worse than us probably won us the game.

 

[Giant Strides]

I wonder if Flynn would have debuted as the second ruck had he not done his ACL? I hope we don't take 2 rucks against Sydney - given the inexperienced ruck they're playing we'd be mad to. I'd even think about giving Briggs a run to see how he goes - but I know that won't happen for real. Another mid needs to come in for one of the rucks. If Jye Caldwell gets through tomorrow's NEAFL game, I wonder if he'll get a call-up? Tommo I agree wasn't great, and we also may have to replace Sammy Taylor (though hopefully he's OK for next week). Tommo will probably survive if we have to make a few other changes. Tonight was a win, but plenty of cracks to repair (hopefully not just paper over!).

 

[Gigantic]

Would having Caldwell playing also with Hately and Hill in the line up be too disruptive to our style??

We saw Hately running into Hopper a few times today and gave a couple frees

Hill is a live wire but his inexperience still shows and he did struggle at times throughout the game

 

[Giant Strides]

Yeah, both those kids got shouted out on the tv several times tonight. Perhaps Lids comes back for the second ruckman, then we'll see if they persist with Hateley or maybe give Caldwell a go. If Kenners is OK for next week he should replace Keeffe, and if Sammy doesn't get up I would prefer Stein to do his job than Keeffe. A few things to wait on - NEAFL game, injury report.

 

[dlanod]

Given Mumford and Simpson statistically played for Port are we better off going in without a ruck?
It's been done before where a quality set of mids simply shark off the oppo ruck against a token competitor for us.
Hell bring Briggs in, at least he can run and kick

Who let Grant Thomas in? Your St Kilda colours are showing!

 

[KevDawg]

That was tough to watch. How good was Daniels, Haynes and Davis? I thought heather was good as well. Gee our disposal was horrible. Probably the worst game I’ve seen zac Williams play since he has been a regular. Him and Toronto seemed to just give it back each time!

Tommo was poor as well, I wonder if it’s a drop in form or a contract related thing?

I believe I only saw Tommo look to kick forward about three times.
All the others he looked across or backwards, and worse, always held up when he sometimes could’ve run on.

 

[KevDawg]

I wonder if Flynn would have debuted as the second ruck had he not done his ACL? I hope we don't take 2 rucks against Sydney - given the inexperienced ruck they're playing we'd be mad to. I'd even think about giving Briggs a run to see how he goes - but I know that won't happen for real. Another mid needs to come in for one of the rucks. If Jye Caldwell gets through tomorrow's NEAFL game, I wonder if he'll get a call-up? Tommo I agree wasn't great, and we also may have to replace Sammy Taylor (though hopefully he's OK for next week). Tommo will probably survive if we have to make a few other changes. Tonight was a win, but plenty of cracks to repair (hopefully not just paper over!).

I saw Aliir shark most tap downs from Zac Clarke in the Bombers game.
We either leave out the ruck or just punch the pill forward. He was uncanny reading where it would be tapped down.

 

[KevDawg]

Can I suggest the best way to sum up that game is, when two teams are trying to lose, there has to be a winner.

 

[Colonial]

Hinkley having a right royal whinge.

I get frustrated with Leon often as he is so controlled and deadpan in his after match interviews.

But at least he isn't a little whiney bitch like that loser.

 

[Giant Pete]

I don’t want to sound harsh, because he is such a good fella, but I wouldn’t re-contract Tomlinson. He’s in his prime earning years and a club like st kilda would take him. We can use that money elsewhere.

Re the game the positive is to play that poorly and still win. Not bad considering we are missing:
Coniglio
Ward
Kelly
DeBoer
(Our starting midfield)

Itll be interesting to see what we do with our rucks for next year. We need to recruit someone more mobile than mummy and Dawson.
I love the look of Briggs but they have been playing him as a forward in the neafl. He would be the most mobile/quickest ruck in the comp in a couple of years. He’s the type of player another club will swoop in and grab... if he sees himself as a forward he would be of the mindset he won’t be getting a game anytime soon.

Anyway for next week hopefully it’s:
Kennedy Davis Shaw
Reid Keeffe Perryman
Whitfield Williams Green
Deledio Cameron Lloyd
Daniels HH Hill

Mummy Hopper Taranto

Finlayson Tomlinson Hately Bonar

Taylor probably going to miss with a hammy. I think Bonar deserves a chance to roll through the midfield.
I’m not sold on the two rucks setup. It leaves us too tall against a good side with good defenders and a side that pressures well and brings the ball to ground. We need to find a different solution. We won’t be winning big finals at the G with our current setup imo.

I sure hope we are not targeting Ryder for next year. Last nights game has shown enough to know he’s on a downward trend.

 

[Danny88]

I don’t want to sound harsh, because he is such a good fella, but I wouldn’t re-contract Tomlinson. He’s in his prime earning years and a club like st kilda would take him. We can use that money elsewhere.

Re the game the positive is to play that poorly and still win. Not bad considering we are missing:
Coniglio
Ward
Kelly
DeBoer
(Our starting midfield)

Itll be interesting to see what we do with our rucks for next year. We need to recruit someone more mobile than mummy and Dawson.
I love the look of Briggs but they have been playing him as a forward in the neafl. He would be the most mobile/quickest ruck in the comp in a couple of years. He’s the type of player another club will swoop in and grab... if he sees himself as a forward he would be of the mindset he won’t be getting a game anytime soon.

Anyway for next week hopefully it’s:
Kennedy Davis Shaw
Reid Keeffe Perryman
Whitfield Williams Green
Deledio Cameron Lloyd
Daniels HH Hill

Mummy Hopper Taranto

Finlayson Tomlinson Hately Bonar

Taylor probably going to miss with a hammy. I think Bonar deserves a chance to roll through the midfield.
I’m not sold on the two rucks setup. It leaves us too tall against a good side with good defenders and a side that pressures well and brings the ball to ground. We need to find a different solution. We won’t be winning big finals at the G with our current setup imo.

I sure hope we are not targeting Ryder for next year. Last nights game has shown enough to know he’s on a downward trend.

Some interesting points. I’m a fan of AT- I think the established bodies are important for our consistency but he is certainly down on form

Totally agree re Ryder.... I don’t want us near him.

 

[fridgeman]

I don’t want to sound harsh, because he is such a good fella, but I wouldn’t re-contract Tomlinson. He’s in his prime earning years and a club like st kilda would take him. We can use that money elsewhere.

Re the game the positive is to play that poorly and still win. Not bad considering we are missing:
Coniglio
Ward
Kelly
DeBoer
(Our starting midfield)

Itll be interesting to see what we do with our rucks for next year. We need to recruit someone more mobile than mummy and Dawson.
I love the look of Briggs but they have been playing him as a forward in the neafl. He would be the most mobile/quickest ruck in the comp in a couple of years. He’s the type of player another club will swoop in and grab... if he sees himself as a forward he would be of the mindset he won’t be getting a game anytime soon.

Anyway for next week hopefully it’s:
Kennedy Davis Shaw
Reid Keeffe Perryman
Whitfield Williams Green
Deledio Cameron Lloyd
Daniels HH Hill

Mummy Hopper Taranto

Finlayson Tomlinson Hately Bonar

Taylor probably going to miss with a hammy. I think Bonar deserves a chance to roll through the midfield.
I’m not sold on the two rucks setup. It leaves us too tall against a good side with good defenders and a side that pressures well and brings the ball to ground. We need to find a different solution. We won’t be winning big finals at the G with our current setup imo.

I sure hope we are not targeting Ryder for next year. Last nights game has shown enough to know he’s on a downward trend.

Bit harsh to drop Haynes after last nights game

 

[Colonial]

Bit harsh to drop Haynes after last nights game

GP likes a challenge.

 

[Giant Pete]

Bit harsh to drop Haynes after last nights game

Oops! First picked. Throw him in for Bonar.

 

[KevDawg]

Hinkley having a right royal whinge.

I get frustrated with Leon often as he is so controlled and deadpan in his after match interviews.

But at least he isn't a little whiney bitch like that loser.

I just had to go and watch that back. Spot on GG.

 

[Giant Pete]

Some interesting points. I’m a fan of AT- I think the established bodies are important for our consistency but he is certainly down on form

Totally agree re Ryder.... I don’t want us near him.

They are... but we need to be really careful as we have so many players around the 26-27 age bracket next year. Only a few years away from looking like Adelaide do now.

 

[Giant Pete]

They are... but we need to be really careful as we have so many players around the 26-27 age bracket next year. Only a few years away from looking like Adelaide do now.

We have made a few big calls the last two years and I think it was necessary for our future. It’s meant we’ve had guys like Taranto, Daniels, Hately, Caldwell, Taylor. If Lids and Shaw retire this year it means we can bring in players like Cumming and Caldwell next year. Sets us up really well going forward.

 

[Giant Pete]

Just projecting for 2020:
Williams Davis Cumming
Haynes Taylor Kennedy
Kelly Cogs Ward
Green Cameron Whitfield
Daniels HH Hill

(Ruck) Taranto Hopper
Caldwell Reid DeBoer Finlayson

Emergencies: Hately, 2x first round picks, Bonar, Langdon, Lloyd etc.

 

[Determinant]

Who let Grant Thomas in? Your St Kilda colours are showing!

Mumford was a genuine liability who negatively impacted the game, too slow and too clumsy.
Simpson is a battleship playing a destroyers game.
Team balance on last night would have been improved with two extra mids, drop both rucks and let Tommo and Keefe make the ruck contest.

Flynn's injury, like most of ours, has come at a terrible time.

 

[Giant Pete]

View attachment 716904
Mumford was a genuine liability who negatively impacted the game, too slow and too clumsy.
Simpson is a battleship playing a destroyers game.
Team balance on last night would have been improved with two extra mids, drop both rucks and let Tommo and Keefe make the ruck contest.

Flynn's injury, like most of ours, has come at a terrible time.

I agree re our rucks. I wouldn’t mind them trying Keeffe in the ruck. Mummy and Dawson are both too slow.

 

[Giant Strides]

I agree re our rucks. I wouldn’t mind them trying Keeffe in the ruck. Mummy and Dawson are both too slow.

We have tried Keeffe in the ruck before. 3 times last year, 3 losses IIRC. My recollection is that he was horrendous. Slow as s**t stuck in treacle and limited taps. So we have the option between 3 treacle-covered s**t ruckmen. Hence why in a game where Sydney are playing a non-ruckman ruckman, I could live with trying out Keiran Briggs although yes it's really too early to give him a run in first grade.

 

[Giant Strides]

From my favourite media source, snippets of their reporting on the match: https://themongrelpunt.com/afl/2019/07/26/gbugwspower

THE GOOD


NICK HAYNES AND PHIL DAVIS

Can I start with Haynes? Earlier this season, we published out All-Underrated Team. It was a team put together by all the writers at the Mongrel, and there was Nick Haynes on the half back flank… and I was a little annoyed by that. You see, I rate him so highly that when I saw he’d been voted into that role by members of my team, I was wondering why they thought people didn’t rate him? Why guys? Why did you do that?

I think I was the only one arguing against him being in the team because I thought he should probably be in consideration for a different kind of team; the All-Australian team.

Nick Haynes is not flashy. I don’t think you’re going to see him doing Akermanis-style hand stands, or playing up to the crowd, but what you will see is a man with an amazing ability to read the play and a fearlessness in the air that borders on recklessness. Phil Davis may be the guy that gets the big jobs on the big forwards, but Haynes’ ability to zone off and render those forwards relatively useless is at the top of the AFL tree. I gave him three votes in this one.

And then there’s Davis. Yep, he made the All-Underrated team too, and I can understand why in relation to him. I was shocked that he has never been an All-Australian given the level of his defence over the last few years. He is all business, backs himself in the contest and was an absolute rock in defence all game against the Power.

With Charlie Dixon out, Davis gave himself a little more freedom to roam around the defensive 50 and pick his spots. He had eight intercepts among his 13 marks for the game as he put his stamp on it early. The GWS captain is the sort of player I would happily follow into battle. There are a couple of captains that, if forced to follow, I may look over my shoulder to plot my escape route, but not if I was following Davis – he is all heart, and you have to respect the way he goes about it.

HEATER V ROBBIE

One thing about Heath Shaw – he takes on the big jobs without fail. He’s never hid in defence, and has continually matched up on some of the game’s greatest small/mid-sized forwards. Cyril Rioli, Eddie Betts, Robbie Gray - Heath Shaw puts his hand up to take them all on, and tonight, he got to reacquaint himself with the man some call the Power’s greatest ever player.

In a contest that ebbed and flowed, Gray and Shaw went head to head in an enthralling matchup.

Three goals to Gray would normally have me swaying to his side if forced to pick, but there was something about a couple of Shaw’s efforts to stifle Gray that made me second guess just how effective Gray was over the course of the game.

In game 300, Shaw gathered 19 touches and was one of the real drivers out of defensive 50 for the Giants, whereas Gray settled into the forward line and started looking right at home again after splitting time between the forward 50 and midfield over recent weeks.

TIM TARANTO

This might sound a bit crazy, but if there was one midfielder under the age of 22 I could take as the number one pick in the league right now, it’d be Tim Taranto.

Simply put, he does it all.

He smothers, he tackles, he harasses, wins clearances, picks up a variety of possessions and he simply does not stop. Another 30+ touches for him in this game as he has just elevated his game to a whole new level this season. It was his third game in a row with over 30 disposals, and the tenth time for the season.

Let’s not forget that he has shared the spotlight with Stephen Coniglio and Josh Kelly at times, but overall, he has been the most consistent and durable midfielder in the team. Now at 28.3 disposals per game, he is fast becoming an elite midfielder, with several years before he hits his peak.

There has been so much talk about whether GWS will re-sign Coniglio, or whether Kelly would leave earlier in the year, but this guy… this is the one you want to sign to an extension way in advance. You don’t want to allow a talent like this to slip out of your grasp. With Taranto at the helm, the Giants’ midfield is in great hands for many, many years to come.

One thing I really loved about Taranto today – a tackle he laid on Scott Lycett. He basically lifted the big fella and dumped him – that is strength. You ever tried to lift someone who weighs 100 kg and has no intention of being moved? My mate Joe Ganino has had to move a few out of his bed over the years – he tells me it is not easy.

THE BAD

TWO ORDINARY RUCKS

If the Giants had lost this, I reckon there’d be plenty of people wondering why the hell Leon Cameron had two players incapable of doing much else than being big, and occasionally winning a hit out in the team.

I’m kind of making a joke about it, but both these blokes were terrible, and it really hurt the Giants around the ground for most of the contest. Combined, Shane Mumford and Dawson Simpson had nine disposals and two marks.

Yep, that’s it. They took two marks between them and could not top ten possessions.

Were they there to combat the two-headed monster of Lycett and Ryder? Yes they were, but what were the Giants giving up in order to have these guys out there. Would another run and carry player have been more valuable than a big bloke who had only one more disposal than he had free kicks against?

I don’t want to disparage either of these blokes, as I really like Mumford, and how can you not like a bloke named Dawson? But having them both in the team is a liability right now. I understand that giving both game time is more than likely crucial considering either may be called upon in September, and the fact GWS walked away with four points wallpapers over it, but that decision to play these two almost cost GES the game.

I don’t think we’ll see both these big guys in the same team again for the rest of the season. If we do, and the Giants lose that game, then they should be open to criticism regarding their decisions.

THE UGLY

THE STANDARD

QUICK BITS

Loved Jeremy Cameron’s tackle on Robbie Gray. It was a tackle with sinister intent, and while he didn’t sling him of drive him into the ground, you can still hit someone with a great tackle and hurt them in the process if you do it right.

The loss of Sam Taylor may be significant for the Giants. He is one who has steadily improved this season to the point where his intercept marking and defence in pack situations are extremely valuable commodities.

Saw plenty from Jackson Hately tonight, with the highlight being that great one-handed contested mark inside 50, and the lowlight was when he collected teammate, Jacob Hopper with a his and shoulder. Not really sure who he expected to get with that one, as Lycett was on the deck by the time Hately barrelled in.

Harry Himmelberg – don’t bounce the ball 15 metres out when you can kick the goal. Here’s an idea – KICK THE GOAL!

No idea how Sam Powell-Pepper was not pinged for holding the ball when he was caught in a Taranto tackle after breaking a previous tackle. No crowd reaction, no cried of “balllll” and play on was called. Gotta be better than that.

 

[Billy Bob65]

Congratulations on the win.

Here are the midfield frequency stats from the game. This is an overall summary of how often your players were lining up as one of the 5 mids at bounces.

Overall Summary - 19 Bounces

Tomlinson 16 wing
Hopper 15
Taranto 14
Greene 13
Williams 12
Hately 10 wing
Whitfield 8 wing
Himmelberg 3 wing
Lloyd 2 (1i, 1w)
Daniels 2

Rucks:
Simpson 11
Mumford 8

Centre Clearances (as per Champion Data/AFL.com.au)
Taranto 3
Daniels 2
Greene 1
Hopper 1
Simpson 1
Himmelberg 1

1st Half - 9

Greene 8
Hopper 7
Whitfield 7 wing
Tomlinson 6 wing
Williams 6
Taranto 5
Himmelberg 3 wing
Hately 2 wing
Lloyd 1

Simpson 6
Mumford 3

Final Term - 4

Tomlinson 4 wing
Hopper 4
Hately 4 wing
Taranto 3
Williams 3
Greene 2

Simpson 2
Mumford 2

Notes:
- Most ever starts for Williams in analysed games, which surpassed the 9 he had in Rd 10, 2017.
- Equal most ever starts for Greene in analysed games with Rd 1, 2016 - obviously I didn't analyse last round, where he may've had higher
- First time Tomlinson has been the most used mid since Rd 12, 2018 - he also didn't have to ruck in that match
- 2nd most starts for Whitfield in an analysed game this season (after Rd 2)
- Equal most ever starts in analysed games (with Rd 1) for Daniels
- Hately didn't receive a start in Q2