Autopsy Round 19 vs Carlton, Metricon Stadium, 7:25pm, 28 July 2018

Stroppy

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Apr 14, 2015
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I have thought all year that our biggest weakness was the midfield. Still think that.

We just don't have enough mids who play consistently well. Some are still young and can get there but atm, on paper, on form over the year, and certainly in this game, we have the worst midfield in the comp.

Made even worse this game when Swallow went off and the dew came in. Fumbles galore all over the field, but bottom line was not getting enough clean ball out the midfield.

When the other team has a run on, the onus has to be on the midfield.

Win a contested possession, make a good tackle, get a clean release to the outside, run past on the outside so the inside mid can get a clean release, make a good decision with the ball. And last night in particular, pick the ball up cleanly. Change the momentum.

It was infuriating at times.

The one time I miss Gaz in the team on the field is when everyone else is fumbling and bumbling.

Still, onwards and upwards. Can't get worse than this game. We have also had a couple of great wins this year, which is a couple more than I was expecting. Would love to pinch another on the run home.
 

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TheSunGod

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Stopped watching after the Blues kicked the first goal in the third. Pretty obvious where the game was headed.
Carlton were all over us after about midway through the first. Faster, and better skills with a greater will to win. If you fail to put any pressure on the opposition they will more than likely beat you. What a bunch of comfortable dumbf**ks we have up here. Happy with beating a Sydney team on the slide.
Positives:
I got an extra hour of sleep;
We’ve sown up pick 2 (and probably pick3)

Negatives:
If Lynch wasn’t gone before he is now;
Could have cost us Bailey Scott as well;
Missed a golden opportunity to get some added belief into these blokes;
Concern about Dew’s game plan. Hope he’s got a plan B because the “let’s play like Sydney” plan A doesn’t work with these blokes.... although the way s**tney are going at the moment you could argue we are playing like them.
 

Sun Stormer

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Jul 27, 2018
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This game has been lost at the selection table. Bowes not ready. Heron outclassed. Powell too young. Holman clearly injured. Lemmens not good enough.

Leslie needed to come in to allow May to play forward.

Barlow needed to come in for leadership and smart positioning.

Hanley needed to play for creativity off halfback.

Dawson smashing the door down in the NEAFL.

Even Rosa showed last week that his ability to find the ball on the wing is still AFL level.

Weak selection policy by failing to bring in height to replace Ballard and Crossley.
Have suffered (mainly in silence) like most for the past 8 years but now sticking my toe in the debate.
I've captained an Aussie Rules side, a life member of a club, been a selector and on management committee so hope I have some credentials.

I agree with 17er on the whole. Poor recruitment, poor selection and overall poor coaching has got us here.
I agree with Happy Idiot that the bottom half of the team is just below standard and most would not get a game in any other AFL team.
I agree with Mr Bods that the team is made up of petals and very fragile ones at that.

Selection this week was terrible.

Here was a chance to string 2 wins in a row against a side as bad as us. They should have stacked the side with experience over youth and made sure we contested for the whole game.

Barlow - he might be slow but he can get the ball and is used to the rough and tumble. He mightn't get 50 touches but he'd get more than our current crop.
Hanley - even half fit I would have had him in the side either in the middle or down back to help out May and Co.
Rosa - not a big fan (almost a petal) but he has years of experience and should have played

Now let's look at the ones who did get a game and who shouldn't!

Joyce, Lemmens are two guys I'd happily move on at end of year.
Heron isn't ready and needs at least a year in the NEAFL and still may not make it.
Powell is underdone and should spend a good apprenticeship in the NEAFL but shows some class
Sexton - I'm yet to be convinced but assume he stays for the moment
Bowes - might not be the player we hoped and has a big ? over him right now
Ainsworth - same as Bowes

....and now for some contentious ones!

Fiorini is still young and probably worth keeping
KK is never going to come back but a good pinch hitter for future injuries etc or trade material
Young and Holman are gap fillers until we can find better and more talented players
Rischitelli has been a great servant but time to pull up and mentor some younger guys in the NEAFL next year
Leslie needs games and with May likely to miss a couple here's his chance again.
Dawson worth a look at at some point but time will tell how he adapts to the Big Game.

Miller is a the real discussion point. I happen to agree with The House (our visitor from Essendon) and believe Touk is a symbol of our woes in the mid field. Lots of possessions (like Aaron H) but provides little grunt and drive with those possessions. I'm not saying get rid of him but he'll make a better outside player than in (which he'll never be). Check his metres gained in this match for the number of touches.

Weller is our problem now for good or bad. We will never get a Pick 2 for him so best to try and develop him as best we can. He has the skills to be a very good outside mid so let's hope he can deliver regularly when it counts.

Guiding lights.

Brodie will be a champion if we can keep him. He has all the attributes needed in the area where we are totally deficient - the middle. Keep Swallow (again if we can), Brodie, Lyons and add two pig mids and we have a mid field squad.

Lonergan is the right type although never been given the chances over the years. Lacking as the ultimate mid for us but he's certainly better than the ones we're sticking in there right now.

The Suns have always been fair weather footballers - when GA (aka The Bald Headed Jesus) was in his prime and setting up plays on the outside we looked good, when the team is going well all the fringe players lift and we look good BUT we have never had enough players who can lift a side to supreme efforts and that's what we need more than anything else.

Let's assume Lynch has gone and I hope Hall gives us at least a 2nd round draft pick - that's about all he's worth.

This means the core of the team is May (if again) / Lonergan / Miller / Martin (if again) / Wright / Lyons / Brodie / Weller / Harbrow (if again) / Hanley / Swallow (if again) / Witts / Thompson and a few of the young kids who blossom in the next year.

All those 'if we can resign them' worries me but I live in hope. Retaining Lynch after this game looks even more unlikely but if we snagged him, it would be a massive boost to future plans. If he goes let's make sure we get and retain some strong, tough talent and not the light framed, outside boys we have in the past.

That highlights to me Happy Idiots comment - we have 12-15 truly AFL worthy and the rest should be included in the possible trade / delisting material list.

I'm hopeful Dew creates success but he needs help. Primus was a terrible Head Coach at Port and he's been even less successful as a Mid Coach so good to see him go. Dew should be using his connections to get us some of the best Assistant Coaches and not the 2nd rate stuff we have had over the years.

We all live in hope that Mr Pods petals can blossom into true AFL flowers but right now we have a few too many that aren't going to shoot at all.
 

NOBBYS

Team Captain
Mar 19, 2018
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Have suffered (mainly in silence) like most for the past 8 years but now sticking my toe in the debate.
I've captained an Aussie Rules side, a life member of a club, been a selector and on management committee so hope I have some credentials.

I agree with 17er on the whole. Poor recruitment, poor selection and overall poor coaching has got us here.
I agree with Happy Idiot that the bottom half of the team is just below standard and most would not get a game in any other AFL team.
I agree with Mr Bods that the team is made up of petals and very fragile ones at that.

Selection this week was terrible.

Here was a chance to string 2 wins in a row against a side as bad as us. They should have stacked the side with experience over youth and made sure we contested for the whole game.

Barlow - he might be slow but he can get the ball and is used to the rough and tumble. He mightn't get 50 touches but he'd get more than our current crop.
Hanley - even half fit I would have had him in the side either in the middle or down back to help out May and Co.
Rosa - not a big fan (almost a petal) but he has years of experience and should have played

Now let's look at the ones who did get a game and who shouldn't!

Joyce, Lemmens are two guys I'd happily move on at end of year.
Heron isn't ready and needs at least a year in the NEAFL and still may not make it.
Powell is underdone and should spend a good apprenticeship in the NEAFL but shows some class
Sexton - I'm yet to be convinced but assume he stays for the moment
Bowes - might not be the player we hoped and has a big ? over him right now
Ainsworth - same as Bowes

....and now for some contentious ones!

Fiorini is still young and probably worth keeping
KK is never going to come back but a good pinch hitter for future injuries etc or trade material
Young and Holman are gap fillers until we can find better and more talented players
Rischitelli has been a great servant but time to pull up and mentor some younger guys in the NEAFL next year
Leslie needs games and with May likely to miss a couple here's his chance again.
Dawson worth a look at at some point but time will tell how he adapts to the Big Game.

Miller is a the real discussion point. I happen to agree with The House (our visitor from Essendon) and believe Touk is a symbol of our woes in the mid field. Lots of possessions (like Aaron H) but provides little grunt and drive with those possessions. I'm not saying get rid of him but he'll make a better outside player than in (which he'll never be). Check his metres gained in this match for the number of touches.

Weller is our problem now for good or bad. We will never get a Pick 2 for him so best to try and develop him as best we can. He has the skills to be a very good outside mid so let's hope he can deliver regularly when it counts.

Guiding lights.

Brodie will be a champion if we can keep him. He has all the attributes needed in the area where we are totally deficient - the middle. Keep Swallow (again if we can), Brodie, Lyons and add two pig mids and we have a mid field squad.

Lonergan is the right type although never been given the chances over the years. Lacking as the ultimate mid for us but he's certainly better than the ones we're sticking in there right now.

The Suns have always been fair weather footballers - when GA (aka The Bald Headed Jesus) was in his prime and setting up plays on the outside we looked good, when the team is going well all the fringe players lift and we look good BUT we have never had enough players who can lift a side to supreme efforts and that's what we need more than anything else.

Let's assume Lynch has gone and I hope Hall gives us at least a 2nd round draft pick - that's about all he's worth.

This means the core of the team is May (if again) / Lonergan / Miller / Martin (if again) / Wright / Lyons / Brodie / Weller / Harbrow (if again) / Hanley / Swallow (if again) / Witts / Thompson and a few of the young kids who blossom in the next year.

All those 'if we can resign them' worries me but I live in hope. Retaining Lynch after this game looks even more unlikely but if we snagged him, it would be a massive boost to future plans. If he goes let's make sure we get and retain some strong, tough talent and not the light framed, outside boys we have in the past.

That highlights to me Happy Idiots comment - we have 12-15 truly AFL worthy and the rest should be included in the possible trade / delisting material list.

I'm hopeful Dew creates success but he needs help. Primus was a terrible Head Coach at Port and he's been even less successful as a Mid Coach so good to see him go. Dew should be using his connections to get us some of the best Assistant Coaches and not the 2nd rate stuff we have had over the years.

We all live in hope that Mr Pods petals can blossom into true AFL flowers but right now we have a few too many that aren't going to shoot at all.
Great summary lot of truths there.
 

Mr Bods

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May 21, 2017
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Have suffered (mainly in silence) like most for the past 8 years but now sticking my toe in the debate.
I've captained an Aussie Rules side, a life member of a club, been a selector and on management committee so hope I have some credentials.

I agree with 17er on the whole. Poor recruitment, poor selection and overall poor coaching has got us here.
I agree with Happy Idiot that the bottom half of the team is just below standard and most would not get a game in any other AFL team.
I agree with Mr Bods that the team is made up of petals and very fragile ones at that.

Selection this week was terrible.

Here was a chance to string 2 wins in a row against a side as bad as us. They should have stacked the side with experience over youth and made sure we contested for the whole game.

Barlow - he might be slow but he can get the ball and is used to the rough and tumble. He mightn't get 50 touches but he'd get more than our current crop.
Hanley - even half fit I would have had him in the side either in the middle or down back to help out May and Co.
Rosa - not a big fan (almost a petal) but he has years of experience and should have played

Now let's look at the ones who did get a game and who shouldn't!

Joyce, Lemmens are two guys I'd happily move on at end of year.
Heron isn't ready and needs at least a year in the NEAFL and still may not make it.
Powell is underdone and should spend a good apprenticeship in the NEAFL but shows some class
Sexton - I'm yet to be convinced but assume he stays for the moment
Bowes - might not be the player we hoped and has a big ? over him right now
Ainsworth - same as Bowes

....and now for some contentious ones!

Fiorini is still young and probably worth keeping
KK is never going to come back but a good pinch hitter for future injuries etc or trade material
Young and Holman are gap fillers until we can find better and more talented players
Rischitelli has been a great servant but time to pull up and mentor some younger guys in the NEAFL next year
Leslie needs games and with May likely to miss a couple here's his chance again.
Dawson worth a look at at some point but time will tell how he adapts to the Big Game.

Miller is a the real discussion point. I happen to agree with The House (our visitor from Essendon) and believe Touk is a symbol of our woes in the mid field. Lots of possessions (like Aaron H) but provides little grunt and drive with those possessions. I'm not saying get rid of him but he'll make a better outside player than in (which he'll never be). Check his metres gained in this match for the number of touches.

Weller is our problem now for good or bad. We will never get a Pick 2 for him so best to try and develop him as best we can. He has the skills to be a very good outside mid so let's hope he can deliver regularly when it counts.

Guiding lights.

Brodie will be a champion if we can keep him. He has all the attributes needed in the area where we are totally deficient - the middle. Keep Swallow (again if we can), Brodie, Lyons and add two pig mids and we have a mid field squad.

Lonergan is the right type although never been given the chances over the years. Lacking as the ultimate mid for us but he's certainly better than the ones we're sticking in there right now.

The Suns have always been fair weather footballers - when GA (aka The Bald Headed Jesus) was in his prime and setting up plays on the outside we looked good, when the team is going well all the fringe players lift and we look good BUT we have never had enough players who can lift a side to supreme efforts and that's what we need more than anything else.

Let's assume Lynch has gone and I hope Hall gives us at least a 2nd round draft pick - that's about all he's worth.

This means the core of the team is May (if again) / Lonergan / Miller / Martin (if again) / Wright / Lyons / Brodie / Weller / Harbrow (if again) / Hanley / Swallow (if again) / Witts / Thompson and a few of the young kids who blossom in the next year.

All those 'if we can resign them' worries me but I live in hope. Retaining Lynch after this game looks even more unlikely but if we snagged him, it would be a massive boost to future plans. If he goes let's make sure we get and retain some strong, tough talent and not the light framed, outside boys we have in the past.

That highlights to me Happy Idiots comment - we have 12-15 truly AFL worthy and the rest should be included in the possible trade / delisting material list.

I'm hopeful Dew creates success but he needs help. Primus was a terrible Head Coach at Port and he's been even less successful as a Mid Coach so good to see him go. Dew should be using his connections to get us some of the best Assistant Coaches and not the 2nd rate stuff we have had over the years.

We all live in hope that Mr Pods petals can blossom into true AFL flowers but right now we have a few too many that aren't going to shoot at all.
Please please please keep contributing Sir!!
 

Iva Bigun

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Just watched Dews presser and he was clearly embarrassed, I liked that he finally said players will be dropped. Not before time.

As a positive
pick 2 is looking like it’s ours.
There will be a significant clean out at years end

Negatives,
the lions will smash us, playing as a team and for each other.
I thought Fiorini was terrible last night, I am a big fan but he was well off the pace IMO
Last week says more about the Swans than us, why? Because that win was a blip in 3 months of awful football
 

TheSunGod

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Just watched Dews presser and he was clearly embarrassed, I liked that he finally said players will be dropped. Not before time.

As a positive
pick 2 is looking like it’s ours.
There will be a significant clean out at years end

Negatives,
the lions will smash us, playing as a team and for each other.
I thought Fiorini was terrible last night, I am a big fan but he was well off the pace IMO
Last week says more about the Swans than us, why? Because that win was a blip in 3 months of awful football
Fiorini and Bowes are both too one-paced, and their skills don't stand up under pressure with those dinky looping passes that opponents pick off with ease. Playing one of them on a HBF is risky. Playing both is Russian roulette and Dew shot himself in the head last night.
 

Iva Bigun

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Fiorini and Bowes are both too one-paced, and their skills don't stand up under pressure with those dinky looping passes that opponents pick off with ease. Playing one of them on a HBF is risky. Playing both is Russian roulette and Dew shot himself in the head last night.
Agree that Dew didn’t do himself any favours last night, the selectors also need to look at themselves.
However the players skills were awful and that is on them.
 

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TheSunGod

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Just on Powell he’s probably played a couple extra games than he should have I just hope it hasn’t damaged his development


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We're probably fortunate he hasn't been broken in half!!
Time to rest him and get some meat on those bones for 2019. The kid has talent. Looking forward to seeing him with another 10kg.
 

NOBBYS

Team Captain
Mar 19, 2018
315
414
AFL Club
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The Gold Coast is famous for its Rollercoasters following the Suns just adds another one to the list.
How do we go from "Tears of Jubilation" to "Tears of Despair" in the space of seven days ?
Maybe it says more about Sydney than the Gold Coast.
Once Swallow left the field the heart and soul of the team appeared to disappear in thin air.
Anybody watching this game at home would have been excused from changing channels at half time and watching repeats of Days Of Our Lives.
The second quarter was as bad a quarter of football I have seen in 50 years of following AFL from two teams.
How full time footballers repeatedly drop simple marks , miss targets from 20 metres , fumble and lack any sort of skill is hard to imagine.
The second half when Carlton got a sniff and increased the intensity we completely folded without a whimper.
The name of game today is to pressurise your opponents and then run and carry the ball as quickly forward as possible ,we play a totally
negative game with little if any risk taken when going forward ,we are simply a boring team to watch.
Right now we have far too many passengers in the team.
Powell and Heron are simply no where near ready for the hustle and bustle of AFL at present.
Joyce has gone backwards in a big way -totally lost confidence.
Lemmens will never be a forward in the big time - limited ability and no goal sense what so ever.
Young Sexton Holman have limitations but at the moment we have few better options
The most important person at the club in the next six weeks will be our list manager Craig Cameron.
He needs to be ruthless ( no sentiment) in who he drops and who he selects for the future of the Suns.The fact we gave extended
contracts to Lemmens and Schoenfeld has me a little bit nervous.
The last four weeks are going be tough , we need to find out about a few guys who have yet to be contracted next year .
Players Lonergan KK Spencer Heron Leslie Dawson MacPherson Jaska are they in our plans.
Next week would expect at least six changes May Swallow Thompson all out ,Lemmens Powell and Heron omitted. Chance for some of these fit guys to show
whether there worth perservering with.
 

Mr Bods

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Post game supper was a Sh*t Sandwich
This mornings breakfast: another Sh*t Sandwich

Oh joy that piece of work Mr Superannuation Rocket Eade is on Game Day

So it’s now for morning tea: Sh*t Sandwich

Doesn’t Geelong Flog Hair Spray McLachlan’s White Teeth look delightful. Might go read about him on Wikipedia.
 

Sunny_

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That's the worst performance I think we have dished up this year. Maybe the Giants game comparable? Or the Cats game? Certainly bottom three. We played for twenty minutes and then just switched off. It's lucky we played Carlton because any other team would have put us away by 12 goals. There appeared to be nearly no structure in our forward movement, which is a stark contrast to how it's been recently. I'm trying to put my finger on to why. Did they get carried away with the Sydney win? Playing too many kids? Young players tired? Everything combined?

I was interested to see how our game plan would change with one tall. The answer is that it didn't at all and we looked very lost all over. It was impossible to see how we would kick goals given 2MP is a CHF and was leading up the ground.

I'll own up and apologise to SandyToes about my calls for May to play forward. I said he wouldn't go well up there and I was wrong. We looked immediately far more dangerous up there with him forward. Maybe all those years of experience on playing on the best forwards have taught him a few things? He should play forward for the rest of the year. But then he will probably get suspended for that Curnow bump.

I love Joyce but this year he's been way down on where he was last year. Last night was easily his worst game of the season and he should be dropped. Can't mark under pressure, can't kick anymore and is beaten one-on-one. With guys like Hanley, Ah Chee and Scrimshaw waiting in the wings, he should definitely be dropped to the 2s.
 

Sunny_

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I thought both Fiorini and Bowes worked their way into it. Keep in mind it's Fiorini's first senior match for nearly two and a half months, I think?

Bowes shouldn't have been promoted anyway given his game last week in the 2s. It just wasn't very good. I thought he looked a bit better as the game wore on though. They clearly brought him back to play the Ballard role, but that didn't work out very well and he was thrown forward where he looked a bit better.

I have no doubt these guys will be good for us, but we need to keep it in perspective I think. Bowes had a few flashes of his brilliance. Just has no touch at the moment.
 

Jirik13

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Jan 22, 2018
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I make a trip to GC only a couple of times per season so I was pretty excited yesterday to watch both games.

5 min into NEAFL game I told my friend that it does not look good for both games and it turned out I was correct. For some reason players of both teams looked flat, sloppy, low work rate.

NEAFL
After terrible start the team lifted in 2nd quarter. There was some nice ball movement from defence but the last kick into F50 was again mostly random bombs.

For me most the disappointing was Schoefield. Some absolute shockers. Yes, I would say now too that he will not make it.

Hanley and Ainsworth could be promoted.

Poor Greenwool, hurt his skinny leg. I cant' see him make it too unless he bulks up.

AFL
Yes, Fiorini and Bowes were poor. It shows that NEAFL numbers and form mean nothing as Fiorini was very good last week.

In the first quarter, Brodie had several great clearances that made me excited.

Highlight for me was when May played forward in the last qtr. He is a true leader, his contest, work rate was fantastic despite carrying injury. I don't care that he collected Curnow. May brought physicality in the last quarter and some players tried to follow, the team stood taller.

Yes, Powell struggles physically but watching at the stadium he, May and Harbrow were probably the only players I noticed in the last quarter putting it on the line.

The lowest point for me was when May was booed while kicking his goal. It was unbelievable. It fell like 90% fans were on Carlton side. Shocking pro Carlton crowd.

After hot day and a cooler evening, there was unbelievable dew on the grass after the game. It probably contributed to a sloppy game.

Another shocker was food at Metricon. Literally not edible (calamari).

Yes, fantastic win last week and terrible loss this week.

I still love Suns.
 

robo_1

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Fiorini and Bowes are both too one-paced, and their skills don't stand up under pressure with those dinky looping passes that opponents pick off with ease. Playing one of them on a HBF is risky. Playing both is Russian roulette and Dew shot himself in the head last night.
Fiorini has played 23 games Bowes 22 with not a lot of senior support and leadership around them.. why aren’t people more critical of lemmens 73 games and sexton 94
 

Mr Bods

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Fiorini has played 23 games Bowes 22 with not a lot of senior support and leadership around them.. why aren’t people more critical of lemmens 73 games and sexton 94
Lemmens I like because he’s a genuine pressure forward tackler and his tackles stick.

Sexton for me is the new Matera, he just makes me want to tear my hair out.
 

Happy Idiot

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[QUOTE="Mr Bods, post: 57032479, member: 181408]Sexton for me is the new Matera, he just makes me want to tear my hair out.[/QUOTE]
Can't agree enough. I reckon I count his good games, which are quite good, on one hand. Damning for a near-100 gamer.


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eppo67

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Lemmens I like because he’s a genuine pressure forward tackler and his tackles stick.

Sexton for me is the new Matera, he just makes me want to tear my hair out.
Lemmens is absolutely atrocious. I've never seen an AFL player almost 100% of the time completely balls/butcher up every goal kicking opportunity he gets. He is beyond terrible.
He also only averages 1 tackle per game inside 50.
 

Suns of Anarchy

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Lemmens is absolutely atrocious. I've never seen an AFL player almost 100% of the time completely balls/butcher up every goal kicking opportunity he gets. He is beyond terrible.
He also only averages 1 tackle per game inside 50.
Couldn’t agree more. 6 behinds in the last 6 games as a forward. Those 6 were sitters too
 

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