Review Round 2, 2018 - Brisbane Lions vs. Melbourne

[BlackGun1]

Cedric was having an incredible game up until that point. Clean, composed - Mr Reliable. Even with the blunder the best game he’s ever played at senior level I feel.

Harris ideally should be our intercept marker, reads the play so well. A KPD to take the load off of him is so important for us to get in the off season

Hit the nail on the head there Billy. Everyone seems to forget the intercept work is what Harris made his name for. He never has and probably never will become a gorilla KPD.

Not sure why Dizzy hasn't got a lot of love, say what you will about his field kicking and general play but one on one in the air he's bloody brilliant.

 

[Mavlions1961]

Anyone else notice Hogan go to their midfield for the center bounce on occasion?

Yep started on the edge of the square. Surprised me but there is an article about it today. He did have 22 possessions.


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[jackess]

Hit the nail on the head there Billy. Everyone seems to forget the intercept work is what Harris made his name for. He never has and probably never will become a gorilla KPD.

Not sure why Dizzy hasn't got a lot of love, say what you will about his field kicking and general play but one on one in the air he's bloody brilliant.

If Andrews can't defend then he doesn't get a game in the backline. Seems only suited to less mobile forwards.

 

[SRH17]

Yep started on the edge of the square. Surprised me but there is an article about it today. He did have 22 possessions.


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I thought I saw him a few times actually in the square at the bounce. That’s one big bodied mid.

 

[Lazza16]

Why are you complaining about the start if results are only what counts? If it's only the final result that matters then the first and second halves are both relevant and you should look at the game as a whole and skip focusing on the start.

I don't think you can complain about one part of the game without also acknowledging the positives of other parts of the game unless you're just complaining for the sake of complaining. Take the game as a whole and while we still lost (a negative result), we weren't terrible/were only terrible for part of it.

I thought I saw him a few times actually in the square at the bounce. That’s one big bodied mid.

J. Brown also was thrown in the guts before his groin.

 

[Big Sauce 21]

Still think Harris and his gumby style is worrying. Good in the air but geez...

 

[2010premier]

The worst thing about the game is what I heard in the presser. The old “we had 6 guys under 20 and they had 1” BS

Never noticed it with Fagan before. Made me want to vomit. Heard it every week with Leppa and Eade.

It’s a mentality that will see us continue to struggle. It’s a defence mechanism that deflects from performance and ends up giving players an out and becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. I’m sick of having claims on being the youngest team. Last time I looked there’s no trophy for that.

Good teams and strong clubs don’t talk like that and I hope I never hear it again

 

[2010premier]

And for the record the last 2 premiers had fairly young lists.....

 

[Big Sauce 21]

Jake Lever and Clayton Oliver have had fair careers so far.

 

[AFLQLD]

Having rewatched the game a couple of noteworthy points I observed.

Witherden will be a good player, especially with his ability to kick long to a running player out of defence. That is proving to be one of the ways to really break open defensive lines in the modern game. He seems to have the vision to do it.

Taylor is now one of our attacking keys and getting him into space is a vital part of our go-forward. He is just starting to show the maturity of an experienced player - he knows more what to do with the ball when he is in space. Some development left in him but he is going to be important for us.

Cedric will be an excellent backline player once he builds confidence, experience and a bit of toughness. In time he might even push up into the midfield as an outside player. His skills are under a bit of pressure with the pace of the game but he will adjust over time.

Hipwood needs to play to his strengths and our midfield need to know what those are. He is at his best with the ball out in front or chasing it over his head, not landing on top of him. I don’t think he has the strength or the hands to regularly grab big pack marks. Put him one on one with a bouncing ball, or one out the back and he will beat a big defender often enough. On the run, he is actually hard to stop. If I was coaching the midfield I think I would tell them to never kick to Hipwood where he isn’t running. As soon as he has to stop and wait or launch for a mark I think most defenders have his number.

Bewick is an enigma. He is three tenths gun, four tenths average and three tenths terrible. His best is great but not reliable. His worst is bad. If he could ever put together four or five really consistent games he would be a permanent starter.

Rayner is still trying to define a role for himself but he has some skill and toughness. He is not going to be a Cameron or Bundy type but he might be able to impact much more with physical presence once he develops his fitness base. After two games there is enough to like to give him a few more games I think.

 

[SizeMatters]

There is much more to it than that.. Shocking disposal eff, lack of fwd line structure & basic skill errors to name just a few!

But, but, but... Our forward line is elite! It has the best conversion rate in the league!! How dare you critique the forward line structures. /s

 

[SizeMatters]

View attachment 477577

This is what I want to see our back men doing. Putting pressure on their opponents, not playing 10 metres in front of them. Geoff Southby should be able to explain the dark arts of defence to our boys. Get him up at the club.

Hmm not sure. I want our defenders to pretty much run through their opponents while going for the spoil. Not enough body contact in those images. How often have we seen our players stand still going for the mark or spoil just for an opponent to have a clear run to the drop zone and last second mark in front of our defenders or from the side. It's BS and mcstay is the worst I've seen in that regards. Hodge is our best defender already for 1 on 1...says a lot about our development when a 34 year old on his last legs can kill a contest by putting his crippled body on the line.

 

[Nunez]

The worst thing about the game is what I heard in the presser. The old “we had 6 guys under 20 and they had 1” BS

Never noticed it with Fagan before. Made me want to vomit. Heard it every week with Leppa and Eade.

It’s a mentality that will see us continue to struggle. It’s a defence mechanism that deflects from performance and ends up giving players an out and becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. I’m sick of having claims on being the youngest team. Last time I looked there’s no trophy for that.

Good teams and strong clubs don’t talk like that and I hope I never hear it again

I read it the opposite way - it sounded like a brutally honest presser to me. Fact is we DID have six guys under 20 against a contested bull side. We also DID push them to the limits and as Fagan said they will make mistakes but I'm going to back them in each and every time and with experience they will get better. Leppa used to do it week in week out along with other excuses he picked up along the way. He also had the players playing like dogshit most weeks.

 

[buttermuffs]

I read it the opposite way - it sounded like a brutally honest presser to me. Fact is we DID have six guys under 20 against a contested bull side. We also DID push them to the limits and as Fagan said they will make mistakes but I'm going to back them in each and every time and with experience they will get better. Leppa used to do it week in week out along with other excuses he picked up along the way. He also had the players playing like dogshit most weeks.

This is how I saw it. It wasn’t really an excuse by Fagan. He was talking to the media and sometimes honesty is key. I enjoy the fact that he is honest and encourages players like Cox to take the game on. His turnovers weren’t the frustrating part, it was events like Zorko and Beams missing easy goals that really frustrated me. Taking the game on is how we are going to improve.

 

[Nunez]

This is how I saw it. It wasn’t really an excuse by Fagan. He was talking to the media and sometimes honesty is key. I enjoy the fact that he is honest and encourages players like Cox to take the game on. His turnovers weren’t the frustrating part, it was events like Zorko and Beams missing easy goals that really frustrated me. Taking the game on is how we are going to improve.

In the third and fourh, our leaders in Lester x2, Martin, Zorko and Beams missed easy shots at goal. If they kicked truly we win. Obviously it's hard to be accurate 100% of the time, but our young guys taking the game on got us back into the game.

 

[buttermuffs]

In the third and fourh, our leaders in Lester x2, Martin, Zorko and Beams missed easy shots at goal. If they kicked truly we win. Obviously it's hard to be accurate 100% of the time, but our young guys taking the game on got us back into the game.

And then there also Walker, who had some very gettable shots in two second and third. We were 2 goals for 11 behinds and that is not acceptable at any point. Walker should be slotting those as a key position player at this point in his career.

 

[briztoon]

It must be a coaching/instructive thing in regards to our last man at the defending key post as Andrews did it in the first half and it looked like he and McStay were switched and then McStay did the same. Intercept marks are quite important on today's game but we are leaking way too many goals this way. I do like the idea of that loose man in the backline (thought this was why Hodge was brought in) as you could see that it was his ol' mate in J. Lewis doing that same role for the Dees. I would believe that extra man is being utilised around the contest but those goals are just way to easy and a continuous problem.

I want to know where the Andrews from 2017 first game of the season against the Suns has gone?

He played Tom Lynch from behind and wore him like a glove.


As for defensive structure. The NEAFL grand final where Eagles played at Full Back and took intercept mark after Mark.

 

[Nunez]

I want to know where the Andrews from 2017 first game of the season against the Suns has gone?

He played Tom Lynch from behind and wore him like a glove.


As for defensive structure. The NEAFL grand final where Eagles played at Full Back and took intercept mark after Mark.

He is a third year KPD man, cut him some slack. His game on the weekend wasn't great but he did some nice things when the ball didn't come in at lightning speed.

In the end, it will take time but he will get there. There's a reason his peers rate him as the best young kpd in the league.

 

[Back2Back2Back]

Zorko and N.Robbo both fined $1500 for misconduct. No games to be missed.
Jordan Lewis also fined $1500 for misconduct.

 

[dlanod]

I want to know where the Andrews from 2017 first game of the season against the Suns has gone?

He played Tom Lynch from behind and wore him like a glove.


As for defensive structure. The NEAFL grand final where Eagles played at Full Back and took intercept mark after Mark.

I wonder if part of it is developmental. Given both McStay and Andrews played the same way on Hogan it suggests to me that it's coming from the coach, not from the player. If the coach is telling them to set up half a kick in front of him to hold the space they're then very reliant on the midfield not allowing pressure free entries into the forward 50, as opposed to rushed kick and hopes. I just found it funny that both played it the same way.

 

[Nunez]

I wonder if part of it is developmental. Given both McStay and Andrews played the same way on Hogan it suggests to me that it's coming from the coach, not from the player. If the coach is telling them to set up half a kick in front of him to hold the space they're then very reliant on the midfield not allowing pressure free entries into the forward 50, as opposed to rushed kick and hopes. I just found it funny that both played it the same way.

I personally thought Mcstay was tigher on Hogan but would leave his man to intercept when needed. Regardless, as you said it was very much coach driven based off the first two rounds.

 

[Len S]

Having rewatched the game a couple of noteworthy points I observed.

Witherden will be a good player, especially with his ability to kick long to a running player out of defence. That is proving to be one of the ways to really break open defensive lines in the modern game. He seems to have the vision to do it.

Taylor is now one of our attacking keys and getting him into space is a vital part of our go-forward. He is just starting to show the maturity of an experienced player - he knows more what to do with the ball when he is in space. Some development left in him but he is going to be important for us.

Cedric will be an excellent backline player once he builds confidence, experience and a bit of toughness. In time he might even push up into the midfield as an outside player. His skills are under a bit of pressure with the pace of the game but he will adjust over time.

Hipwood needs to play to his strengths and our midfield need to know what those are. He is at his best with the ball out in front or chasing it over his head, not landing on top of him. I don’t think he has the strength or the hands to regularly grab big pack marks. Put him one on one with a bouncing ball, or one out the back and he will beat a big defender often enough. On the run, he is actually hard to stop. If I was coaching the midfield I think I would tell them to never kick to Hipwood where he isn’t running. As soon as he has to stop and wait or launch for a mark I think most defenders have his number.

Bewick is an enigma. He is three tenths gun, four tenths average and three tenths terrible. His best is great but not reliable. His worst is bad. If he could ever put together four or five really consistent games he would be a permanent starter.

Rayner is still trying to define a role for himself but he has some skill and toughness. He is not going to be a Cameron or Bundy type but he might be able to impact much more with physical presence once he develops his fitness base. After two games there is enough to like to give him a few more games I think.

The problems are not in defence...the problems are in the mids and wings,and until they are resolved, the defence will be under ridiculous pressure,and the forward line will get third rate service.

 

[Lazza16]

But, but, but... Our forward line is elite! It has the best conversion rate in the league!! How dare you critique the forward line structures. /s

STaTS..... what are they good for....

 

[royboys4eva]

The problems are not in defence...the problems are in the mids and wings,and until they are resolved, the defence will be under ridiculous pressure,and the forward line will get third rate service.

Exactly Len, if you want to play a zone then your defenders are relying heavily on up the ground providing pressure. We let teams stroll through the middle and give Andrews and Mcstay no chance. Look at the Dogs they won a premiership playing a high zone and the pressure around the ground meant the defenders took so many intercept marks. Now they have dropped off big time they are being exposed down back worse than us. In fact we exposed them last year at Etihad in the first half when Hippy got behind the zone three or four times. That said I would like someone like Hodge to stand further back and help Harris.Maybe Hodge stand in front of the full forward and Harris playing them from behind. That way Hodge can also watch the players down the field and get everyone in the right areas.

 

[jjami15]

Interestingly I just finished watching 'On the Couch' and Roosy highlighted this exact issue with Andrews but also was showing the exact same thing for Liam Jones on the weekend. He was saying that it is an attacking form of defense but for those lower teams it is going to be more difficult as they're isn't the pressure up the field structurally starting in the forward line and through the midfield so that easy transition opens them up. There is more to this form of defending that we aren't privy to for it to work but I do agree that wearing the forward more tighter would be better for us in the situation that we are in. As we become a better team overall and can set up structurally better and our players become better than it should be used then but most probably not know.