Review Round 2, 2018 - Brisbane Lions vs. Melbourne

Who were your five best players against Melbourne?

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jjami15 said:
Interestingly I just finished watching 'On the Couch' and Roosy highlighted this exact issue with Andrews but also was showing the exact same thing for Liam Jones on the weekend. He was saying that it is an attacking form of defense but for those lower teams it is going to be more difficult as they're isn't the pressure up the field structurally starting in the forward line and through the midfield so that easy transition opens them up. There is more to this form of defending that we aren't privy to for it to work but I do agree that wearing the forward more tighter would be better for us in the situation that we are in. As we become a better team overall and can set up structurally better and our players become better than it should be used then but most probably not know.
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Could be that we are persisting with this plan instead of reverting to a less zoned defense to force the players to adapt and develop. Giving the players time and responsibility to learn and adapt could make for a 'long term gain, short term pain' result. Would be really good hearing this discussed on The Roar Deal.
 
One on one defensive play is old school and simply does not work in the modern game. Modern midfielders and half forwards have such high skill that playing man on man in defense advantages the opposition. They can find the gaps and drill passes easily. Everyone plays zone defense. If we dont play the aggressive zone then you arent able to lock it into the forward line and you arent able to play that fast transition football which is what modern attacking play is based on. If we drop Andrews back as a goal keeper type behind the top forward then we have to drop another midfielder back. Then our forward play becomes slow and our forward pressure drops. You need absolute elites to maintain forward pressure with only 5 attackers and we dont have that. The best defense is prolonged attack. You lock the ball in your forward half for most of the quarter you win the game. You do that by winning the clearance/stoppage/contested ball and then locking it forward with aggressive forward pressure. As a young team we can achieve this gameplan. Tigs and Dogs have both won premierships like this. Maybe in 2-3 years we'll become an elite kicking team (after our boys mature and can run for a whole game and give options) but at the present I like Fagans gameplan. It will improve as our decision making improves. We cant keep just banging the ball on the boot and hopign for a mark. We also just cant afford basic skill errors in shallow half forward passes which results in that quick turnover and goal out the back. This will improve with the season as the boys get into it.
 

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jjami15 said:
Interestingly I just finished watching 'On the Couch' and Roosy highlighted this exact issue with Andrews but also was showing the exact same thing for Liam Jones on the weekend. He was saying that it is an attacking form of defense but for those lower teams it is going to be more difficult as they're isn't the pressure up the field structurally starting in the forward line and through the midfield so that easy transition opens them up. There is more to this form of defending that we aren't privy to for it to work but I do agree that wearing the forward more tighter would be better for us in the situation that we are in. As we become a better team overall and can set up structurally better and our players become better than it should be used then but most probably not know.
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That on the couch segment was fantastic and should be required viewing for people potting individuals in the defensive line.
 
jjami15 said:
Interestingly I just finished watching 'On the Couch' and Roosy highlighted this exact issue with Andrews but also was showing the exact same thing for Liam Jones on the weekend. He was saying that it is an attacking form of defense but for those lower teams it is going to be more difficult as they're isn't the pressure up the field structurally starting in the forward line and through the midfield so that easy transition opens them up. There is more to this form of defending that we aren't privy to for it to work but I do agree that wearing the forward more tighter would be better for us in the situation that we are in. As we become a better team overall and can set up structurally better and our players become better than it should be used then but most probably not know.
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I watched the same segment that Roosy was talking about. The thing I noticed though when watching the video snippets they highlighted was when we lost the ball Andrews and mcstay would be 10 metres roughly in front of opponent. When we lose the ball that's when IMO mcstay and Andrews should be pushing hard to get back to one on one contact with the opponent. If you watch the footage they are not pushing 100% to get back on the opponent. Their opponent is not pushing 100% forward to the goals so they do have a chance to man up but if you watch the vision they are still trying to cover the space in front, then trying to look behind were the opponent is then looking front and back again and again. IMO if we lose the ball we should automatically push hard back on our opponent straight away which watching the video last night was not happening. I have noticed this in games live as well that opponents are pushing forward where we are still trying to cover space in front even though the opposition are moving the ball forward. If we have turnt the ball over first instinct try and push back on your opponent as fast as you can to create one on one.
 
Paul Mac said:
I watched the same segment that Roosy was talking about. The thing I noticed though when watching the video snippets they highlighted was when we lost the ball Andrews and mcstay would be 10 metres roughly in front of opponent. When we lose the ball that's when IMO mcstay and Andrews should be pushing hard to get back to one on one contact with the opponent. If you watch the footage they are not pushing 100% to get back on the opponent. Their opponent is not pushing 100% forward to the goals so they do have a chance to man up but if you watch the vision they are still trying to cover the space in front, then trying to look behind were the opponent is then looking front and back again and again. IMO if we lose the ball we should automatically push hard back on our opponent straight away which watching the video last night was not happening. I have noticed this in games live as well that opponents are pushing forward where we are still trying to cover space in front even though the opposition are moving the ball forward. If we have turnt the ball over first instinct try and push back on your opponent as fast as you can to create one on one.
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Agreed. we need to work on this. Every time we got a TO, the Demon defenders were covering our forwards - we had plenty of quick movement through the middle that could have caught them off guard. Same needs to be done by our Guys, I don't care how much they want to be Rance or Jake Lever, at this stage of their career they need to more conscious of pushing back and getting a hip on their opponent. A couple of over the back goals is going to happen with a young team, but it's every second goal with us, and it's soul destroying. We do not push back hard enough in defence, it's like the almost resign to the fact they are caught out due to the TO initially occurring. Yes, the mids need to take some responsibility but so do they.
 
Paul Mac said:
I watched the same segment that Roosy was talking about. The thing I noticed though when watching the video snippets they highlighted was when we lost the ball Andrews and mcstay would be 10 metres roughly in front of opponent. When we lose the ball that's when IMO mcstay and Andrews should be pushing hard to get back to one on one contact with the opponent. If you watch the footage they are not pushing 100% to get back on the opponent. Their opponent is not pushing 100% forward to the goals so they do have a chance to man up but if you watch the vision they are still trying to cover the space in front, then trying to look behind were the opponent is then looking front and back again and again. IMO if we lose the ball we should automatically push hard back on our opponent straight away which watching the video last night was not happening. I have noticed this in games live as well that opponents are pushing forward where we are still trying to cover space in front even though the opposition are moving the ball forward. If we have turnt the ball over first instinct try and push back on your opponent as fast as you can to create one on one.
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I noticed this, too (with McStay, Andrews, and also Hodge), quite deliberately playing 15-20 metres in front of the most forward Melbourne player (usually Hogan), even with the ball only 1.5 kicks away. Its clearly a strategy coming from the coaches, as lionraven suggests, but surely they have to tweak those distances a bit, to give the defenders some chance of making it back to their opponent on turnover.
 
Charlie Cameron was worth paying pick 12 for. Those quick, tough line breaking goal kickers are so hard to find in the draft it aint funny.
Hopefully this trade can work out both ways.
You guys got a Qlder home who adds immediate impact to your team, while we got a top young SA kid to go on with.
So far it seems a win win.
 
Cleric said:
Charlie Cameron was worth paying pick 12 for. Those quick, tough line breaking goal kickers are so hard to find in the draft it aint funny.
Hopefully this trade can work out both ways.
You guys got a Qlder home who adds immediate impact to your team, while we got a top young SA kid to go on with.
So far it seems a win win.
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Fair to say for some around here the feelings toward Cameron and that trade have changed pretty dramatically in two short weeks. Your kid looks like he could be anything.
 
WhiteLionFeva said:
Fair to say for some around here the feelings toward Cameron and that trade have changed pretty dramatically in two short weeks. Your kid looks like he could be anything.
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The thing to remember about players like Charlie and the position they play is that they arnt always consistant. Lack of opportunities, bounce of the ball etc can be the difference between cutting a game to bits or having a shocker. Outside players rely on getting fed the ball and opportunities. One thing about Charlie is if he isnt getting the ball he puts pressure on the opposition.
He can turn a game on its head and win it off his own boot, or have no impact. He is like Rioli in that regard.
Hopefully Fog can kick on for us as well.
 
I moved from seats on the boundary to a higher tier and could really see personally for the first time that it was the midfielders losing their opponents in transition to the defensive phase that put our defence under unnecessary pressure. Andrews and McStay were actually pretty good in their positioning zone wise to cover the multiple free opponents that were getting into the attacking area but it pretty much meant they were in no man's land when opposition players could make f50 entries with multiple free opponents. If our defensive keys manned up Melbourne would have had completely unguarded players to kick to or room to run deeper into the forward 50. We were continually outnumbered on the phase transition because players involved in the attacking move that had just resulted in a turnover let their heads drop instead of contributing 100% to trying to get that ball back to attack again.
 
Cleric said:
Charlie Cameron was worth paying pick 12 for. Those quick, tough line breaking goal kickers are so hard to find in the draft it aint funny.
Hopefully this trade can work out both ways.
You guys got a Qlder home who adds immediate impact to your team, while we got a top young SA kid to go on with.
So far it seems a win win.
Click to expand...

Can he keep it up for longer than a month will be the question. Seems to be enjoying the added responsibility so far though.
 

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Glad to see somewhat maligned players like Bewick and Walker play well and get some recognition.

Pretty sure last year Hibberd tore us to pieces but was largely ineffectual this time, particularly in taking intercept possessions, while Bewick did some good things in attack as well.

I thought both our key forwards played pretty complementary games. Walker competed really well and it looked like Hipwood played higher up the ground and looked to get into the game a bit more.
 
Caiphus said:
I moved from seats on the boundary to a higher tier and could really see personally for the first time that it was the midfielders losing their opponents in transition to the defensive phase that put our defence under unnecessary pressure. Andrews and McStay were actually pretty good in their positioning zone wise to cover the multiple free opponents that were getting into the attacking area but it pretty much meant they were in no man's land when opposition players could make f50 entries with multiple free opponents. If our defensive keys manned up Melbourne would have had completely unguarded players to kick to or room to run deeper into the forward 50. We were continually outnumbered on the phase transition because players involved in the attacking move that had just resulted in a turnover let their heads drop instead of contributing 100% to trying to get that ball back to attack again.
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I understand and agree with what is been said about our defensive pressure in the middle , but.
When your direct opponent is in the goal square and you(Andrews) are within 10 meters from him and Hodge is directly out from you defending the zone and there are no other Melbourne player within cooee you have to be accountable to defend against that man (Hogan).
At some point you stop defending the space when there is a direct threat /player, or am I getting it wrong.
The ball came in from 50 meters out , didn't get near Hogan, thats pretty bad positioning in my book.
Andrews, Mcstay need to switch on quicker , no excuses.
 
Billy Puller said:
Can you maybe not take your pessimism pills and then jump on Bigfooty, I don’t think I’ve ever read you say anything delightful
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Can always rely on a jackess post to be a glass half empty type.
 
Billy Puller said:
Can you maybe not take your pessimism pills and then jump on Bigfooty, I don’t think I’ve ever read you say anything delightful
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We all knew he was capable of a lot. We also knew he was capable of doing very little for several weeks .but his form has been excellent so far.
 
15 disp at 87%
6 intercepts
1 clearance (lol)
13 1%ers

Quite solid stats...however, the 6 goals against taints those stats and realistically if Hogan had of finished with 2-3 goals we'd be lauding Andrews' effort. Imo McStay had a better game.
 
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