Autopsy Round 2, 2020: St.Kilda v Western Bulldogs

[Ricochet]

I did read what you said... and you didn't give Gears the credit he deserved IMO.

Think like this if billings or Gresh was given the job on jj and held him to a down game and got 3 possession would you say they had a good game

 

[George]

Think like this if billings or Gresh was given the job on jj and held him to a down game and got 3 possession would you say they had a good game

Are those two players shutdown types?

 

[Ricochet]

Are those two players shutdown types?

Well we could of got Parker or one of the on ball kids to do the same job and probably expected a goal or two it not like he was actually stopping him from scoring I think jj one actually held his forward opponent to 3 possession tick to the back line player

 

[Hubnester]

Well we could of got Parker or one of the on ball kids to do the same job and probably expected a goal or two it not like he was actually stopping him from scoring I think jj one actually held his forward opponent to 3 possession tick to the back line player

There's no logic in that statement at all

 

[Ricochet]

There's no logic in that statement at all

The logic we didn't have to use a lockdown player could of used a natural forward or young mid and given them a lockdown roll would of yielded more benefit

 

[George]

Well we could of got Parker or one of the on ball kids to do the same job and probably expected a goal or two it not like he was actually stopping him from scoring I think jj one actually held his forward opponent to 3 possession tick to the back line player

Very interesting view. Must be the only person that thinks JJ beat Gears on the night. I didn't even know JJ was playing.

The logic we didn't have to use a lockdown player could of used a natural forward or young mid and given them a lockdown roll would of yielded more benefit

So you're saying we shouldn't use a lockdown player for a lockdown role. Got it.

 

[Ricochet]

Very interesting view. Must be the only person that thinks JJ beat Gears on the night. I didn't even know JJ was playing.


So you're saying we shouldn't use a lockdown player for a lockdown role. Got it.

When a back line player is more damaging then his forward opponent even though he played bad for his standard jj still beat Geary

 

[Hubnester]

The logic we didn't have to use a lockdown player could of used a natural forward or young mid and given them a lockdown roll would of yielded more benefit

I think strangling the movement of a game breaker who usually tears us up is a pretty good benefit.
He averages over 20 disposals, got 42 against us 2 seasons ago, and was held to less than half his average metres gained.
No easy or quick movement out of our forward line worked wonders for us, I wouldn't have changed that matchup.

 

[Ricochet]

I think strangling the movement of a game breaker who usually tears us up is a pretty good benefit.
He averages over 20 disposals, got 42 against us 2 seasons ago, and was held to less than half his average metres gained.
No easy or quick movement out of our forward line worked wonders for us, I wouldn't have changed that matchup.

He still had 14 only 2 of our backs had more in wilke and paton and they didn't have a hard tag

 

[Crusty Undies]

It's because people have criticised him for six years yet he plays every game. He proves you and others wrong every single weekend.

If you count being gifted games by a crap coach for 6 years proving me wrong then I guess.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Crusty Undies]

He still had 14 only 2 of our backs had more in wilke and paton and they didn't have a hard tag

In fairness to our backs, the ball wasn't down there a whole lot compared to theirs

 

[Diehard Saint]

A really good read.

I did notice just how excited the four emergencies were in the rooms after the win. A great sign of how tight the group really is and good on Ratts for making a big deal out of it.

 

[mightymalaka]

If you count being gifted games by a crap coach for 6 years proving me wrong then I guess.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Receiving gifts from s**t is always dangerous!
Just ask the Greeks!

 

[Ricochet]

In fairness to our backs, the ball wasn't down there a whole lot compared to theirs

This is true. I'm not saying what Geary did wasn't good for the team I'm just saying it was a roll not awesome not bad. I do believe we could of got the same out of others with more benefit either in goals or experience to a young guy.

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

This is true. I'm not saying what Geary did wasn't good for the team I'm just saying it was a roll not awesome not bad. I do believe we could of got the same out of others with more benefit either in goals or experience to a young guy.

Disagree here. Defensive pressure in the forward 50 has been a place where we have struggled in recent times. Butler went a long way in fixing that but seeing the pressure those poor doggies defenders were under with gears hot on their tails was one of the reasons we scored so much from turnovers.
PLUS it allowed coffield, paton, long and clark more freedom to play in their more natural offensive roles in the back half instead of being told to shut down someone on the dreaded half forward flank.

 

[SaintOfLondon]

Anyone bagging Gears has no clue. Played through injury and still kept JJ quiet. That behind the head tap he did to set up the Butler goal was important, didn't get a stat for that one or a few of his hard contests. All this while playing with a hammy that he'll now miss weeks for. Bloody gutsy game.

Well said

 

[Snailspace13]

And you give him too much credit for a player who got 3 touches and coughed one of them up.

And all that matters is that Ratts was so pleased by the Selfless performance that our Captain produced to nullify JJ.

 

[hayes]

That’s the type of role you want Geary playing. You want his possessions low and his defensive work high as opposed to 2018 where the ratio was the opposite. Play guys to their strengths and it’s amazing what can happen.

 

[hoovinha]

100% this.

You don't want the ball in Geary's hands if you can help it so the low possession count is irrelevant. What is relevant is he kept a Norm Smith medal winning lethal rebounding backman to a bit role in a crucial game for the club.

There is no better defensive stopper in the side and people saying they would rather Geary get more possessions or someone else do that role to get more possessions seriously underestimate how good JJ is and how important he is to the doggies. Why would you risk that?

JJ's possessions were in non threatening areas due to Geary's work. He had zero space and ended up being benched late in the game. That's a huge win thanks to Geary. Even if another defensive forward played on him and JJ got the same possession count, I'd bet my left nut that they would be much more damaging than they were on Saturday.

This freed up Billings, Butler, Lonie and Clarke to do their things. End result, 39 point win.

I'm far from Geary's biggest fan but recognise this was a huge game for him and he sacrificed his own game for the team. Noone could've done it as effectively as Geary and he will be missed on some of the dangerous Pies players this week.

That’s the type of role you want Geary playing. You want his possessions low and his defensive work high as opposed to 2018 where the ratio was the opposite. Play guys to their strengths and it’s amazing what can happen.

 

[tomjoad]

Yeah. Other players can stop JJ and also do literally anything else. Geary did his job, nothing less nothing more but that doesn't make him a star or mean he had an amazing game or save him from criticism. Defending Geary has become a meme at this point because no one can criticise him without someone piping up with some non-sequitur about how he tries hard and does what the coaches ask despite that not being good enough for other players.

Valid points. However he was injured after the first quarter and was running on one and a half legs. He will possibly miss two weeks. He did well considering.

 

[Grav]

Do we think his ceiling is Nick Riewoldt?
Does he have the enormous scope to be even better than Roo?

Will be a pleasure to watch him develop and see how far he goes. So early to predict though. In terms of style it is hard to know who to compare him to. He’s different to the other 200ish cm forwards in the comp (Brown, Daniher etc). His dual ability of contested marking and ground game makes him a rare prospect. If he has anywhere near the impact Roo did then we are in for a treat.

With Roo commentating on the game he was full of praise for Max, said something along these lines “as long as he keeps going for those marks, one day they will stick & he’ll never look back”.
Moves up & down the ground like Roo & when he gets AFL fit could be our Roo mark2, think we are on a winner no matter what.

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

With Roo commentating on the game he was full of praise for Max, said something along these lines “as long as he keeps going for those marks, one day they will stick & he’ll never look back”.
Moves up & down the ground like Roo & when he gets AFL fit could be our Roo mark2, think we are on a winner no matter what.

I hope the pressure doesn't get to him because he's certainly going to have he limelight on him. Especially taking on 12 from the get go. Although I see Max as the type who wants the pressure and the hype. He's an alpha. Just got to remember hes a big lad in his first year and had a knee reco only 2 years ago. Play it safe and keep him developing nicely.

Unless he kicks 5 and we win by 10 goals this weekend. Then all bets are off and he's playing 22 (+3).

 

[luca77]

Jesus, welcome to the fantasy footy generation who think that performance is only measured by ranking points and possession count.
It would be interesting to get an age demographic of the people bagging Geary's performance on the weekend.
Maybe I'm wrong and there are people who've been watching footy for decades and still just don't get it. Tennis is a good sport, easy to follow.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Well we could of got Parker or one of the on ball kids to do the same job and probably expected a goal or two it not like he was actually stopping him from scoring I think jj one actually held his forward opponent to 3 possession tick to the back line player

Rubbish, Parker isn't that good on a direct opponent.
Geary isn't the first one to limit run out of the backline. We've had it done to us.

 

[gringo2011]

Valid points. However he was injured after the first quarter and was running on one and a half legs. He will possibly miss two weeks. He did well considering.

Yeah, you could see him limping noticeably and doing a hobbled run. I thought that he was very good considering that he couldn't contribute in the backline. We turned a player down for us into a player down for them as well.