Autopsy Round 2, 2021: Hawthorn defeated by Richmond

Remove this Banner Ad

Milkshaker

Club Legend
Nov 6, 2014
2,215
4,675
24 Barrack Street
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I agree and my point on Mitchell was that he impacts so many of our chances in the centre

For whatever reason (my opinion) it is like the midfield team don’t work for each other and the catalyst of it is Mitchell - not that they don’t do the structural and defensive things that are asked but that they don’t work instinctively for each other... or want to? Maybe I am reading to much into things and worpel

If your an opposition midfield we would be one of the easiest to match up on currently, all you do is match our outside and wait for a turnover or one of your mids to beat Mitchell and repeat.

We have no variation or point of difference to compete with currently and Mitchell burning it or creating issues for the receiver only makes the problem greater.
Sometimes you could swear they are deliberately handballing at each others feet. It is weird. I think we have been spoilt a bit. Sam Mitchell's GF against Freo stands out for mine. Sacrificed his entire game by dragging Crowley out of the contest. That midfield (Hodge, Lewis, Mitch et al) worked for the greater good.

Our mids are not up for it or are not doing the team things for each other. Either way something is not clicking. A lot of posters put it down to all our mids being the same type of player and one paced. They could be on the money too. Without being inside the club it's hard to tell sometimes.
 

darthmann

Club Legend
Jun 11, 2013
2,065
4,540
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
GSW
Sometimes you could swear they are deliberately handballing at each others feet. It is weird. I think we have been spoilt a bit. Sam Mitchell's GF against Freo stands out for mine. Sacrificed his entire game by dragging Crowley out of the contest. That midfield (Hodge, Lewis, Mitch et al) worked for the greater good.

Our mids are not up for it or are not doing the team things for each other. Either way something is not clicking. A lot of posters put it down to all our mids being the same type of player and one paced. They could be on the money too. Without being inside the club it's hard to tell sometimes.
I'm pretty sure it's just — Worpel is inexperienced, learning how to diversify his game and we're still a bit samey. Coaches have made it a priority to get reps into blokes playing in different positions

We have players like Shiels, JOM etc. who regularly sacrifice their game to help out Titch, or in 19 Worps. We're just missing Wingard at the moment and probably one more outside player. We will look a lot better once we have that sorted.

In 18 Tom was easily the best user by hand in the game so I doubt he's doing it on purpose, likely just Richmond's pressure or a couple of skill errors.

I think they just still need time to get to practice together. Remember this is pretty much their first actual year of being able to work on it properly. It will get better as the season goes on, even if we keep losing games. They weren't even that bad vs Richmond. Pretty sure we kept up with clearances, contested disposals etc. for most of the game. We just got beaten out of the square sometimes to a really good midfield and a really good team. It happens to other really good midfields too.
 

Milkshaker

Club Legend
Nov 6, 2014
2,215
4,675
24 Barrack Street
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I'm pretty sure it's just — Worpel is inexperienced, learning how to diversify his game and we're still a bit samey. Coaches have made it a priority to get reps into blokes playing in different positions

We have players like Shiels, JOM etc. who regularly sacrifice their game to help out Titch, or in 19 Worps. We're just missing Wingard at the moment and probably one more outside player. We will look a lot better once we have that sorted.

In 18 Tom was easily the best user by hand in the game so I doubt he's doing it on purpose, likely just Richmond's pressure or a couple of skill errors.

I think they just still need time to get to practice together. Remember this is pretty much their first actual year of being able to work on it properly. It will get better as the season goes on, even if we keep losing games. They weren't even that bad vs Richmond. Pretty sure we kept up with clearances, contested disposals etc. for most of the game. We just got beaten out of the square sometimes to a really good midfield and a really good team. It happens to other really good midfields too.
I don't think they are doing it on purpose either but they do it a lot. Am at a bit of a loss as Worps, Mitchell and JOM are all capable players. As you say a bit more time might help improve the chemistry.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

The hands of stone

All Australian
Sep 13, 2020
831
1,997
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I don't think they are doing it on purpose either but they do it a lot. Am at a bit of a loss as Worps, Mitchell and JOM are all capable players. As you say a bit more time might help improve the chemistry.
The question is how much longer do they give the chemistry to improve or work .

Im sure we are working on it and other options . Got a feeling our midfield set up and dynamic will look quite different in 12 months
 

HODGEYROAD

Brownlow Medallist
May 10, 2007
18,313
19,870
Bonbeach
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Arsenal Fc Portland Trailblazers
I'm pretty sure it's just — Worpel is inexperienced, learning how to diversify his game and we're still a bit samey. Coaches have made it a priority to get reps into blokes playing in different positions

We have players like Shiels, JOM etc. who regularly sacrifice their game to help out Titch, or in 19 Worps. We're just missing Wingard at the moment and probably one more outside player. We will look a lot better once we have that sorted.

In 18 Tom was easily the best user by hand in the game so I doubt he's doing it on purpose, likely just Richmond's pressure or a couple of skill errors.

I think they just still need time to get to practice together. Remember this is pretty much their first actual year of being able to work on it properly. It will get better as the season goes on, even if we keep losing games. They weren't even that bad vs Richmond. Pretty sure we kept up with clearances, contested disposals etc. for most of the game. We just got beaten out of the square sometimes to a really good midfield and a really good team. It happens to other really good midfields too.
Not sure that's really a feather in our caps tbh, I'd have to go through the numbers in recent times but these two stats aren't a massive strength of Richmond's I don't think, especially clearances.
 

Charchi

Senior List
Mar 16, 2010
213
272
AFL Club
Hawthorn
We repeatedly handball backwards at stoppages which gives the opposition time to close down targets, Richmond tended to handball forwards to create play. The only player we have which runs forward of the play at stoppages is Wingard, we really need him back.
 

cryptor

Premium Gold
May 11, 2008
19,024
41,349
AFL Club
Hawthorn
We repeatedly handball backwards at stoppages which gives the opposition time to close down targets, Richmond tended to handball forwards to create play. The only player we have which runs forward of the play at stoppages is Wingard, we really need him back.
We move the ball backwards with the intention of giving those receivers time and space to find the right teammate to move it forward to. Issue was that our handballs were sloppy and players fumbled. That gave Richmond players - who are already the best in the league at closing down space - precious extra time to close the distance. Forcing our players to either rush their disposal (increasing the chance of a turnover) or flick it backwards again (rinse and repeat).

Sharpen up the skills and don't succumb to pressure applied and I'm sure this will work out well for us. But currently we're less experienced than the opposition. It will come in time.
 

burner1

Club Legend
Nov 3, 2005
1,956
1,319
victoria
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
hawks
We move the ball backwards with the intention of giving those receivers time and space to find the right teammate to move it forward to. Issue was that our handballs were sloppy and players fumbled. That gave Richmond players - who are already the best in the league at closing down space - precious extra time to close the distance. Forcing our players to either rush their disposal (increasing the chance of a turnover) or flick it backwards again (rinse and repeat).

Sharpen up the skills and don't succumb to pressure applied and I'm sure this will work out well for us. But currently we're less experienced than the opposition. It will come in time.
But that’s why the Richmond style is so effective against us - we look to move ball out backwards while Richmond look to move forward from a contest (unlike most teams) so there’s no real time/space created from moving the ball backwards. And if we fumble they just keep driving forward and back themselves being cleaner in contested situations.
 

cryptor

Premium Gold
May 11, 2008
19,024
41,349
AFL Club
Hawthorn
But that’s why the Richmond style is so effective against us - we look to move ball out backwards while Richmond look to move forward from a contest (unlike most teams) so there’s no real time/space created from moving the ball backwards. And if we fumble they just keep driving forward and back themselves being cleaner in contested situations.
And yet despite the gulf in experience the result was still relatively close. Closer if you discount the 3 goal jump they got on us early.

We're still raw but there are early signs that this way of playing can work well for us. But it's going to take time to perfect. Let's see how we compare in the round 23 rematch.
 

MinerBoy

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 9, 2007
26,213
34,750
Do you know where the f*** you are!
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Other teams?
JOM is a bull and has some great moments - but sheesh he is a long way from being someone that gives the opposition sleepless nights.
Quiet second half but I must be alone because I thought he was clearly our best along with Howe up to half time.... after Hardwick that is.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Leather Poisoning

Hall of Famer
Jun 19, 2007
34,128
39,635
On the south side now
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
nil
Quiet second half but I must be alone because I thought he was clearly our best along with Howe up to half time.... after Hardwick that is.
Sure - and this happens fairly frequently. But this is what the best mids do each week, for longer each game, PLUS the occasional game changing burst.

We don't have the depth for his output to come and go like the tide within a game.
 

Judd2Sewell

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 31, 2008
13,297
18,822
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Nuggets
JOM is a selfless player, the most selfless player in our side IMO.

Worpel owes that BnF to him, and as TFP has pointed out it was JOM that was doing all of the defensive running and hole-filling against Richmond. He was gassed.

When he plays a more natural game we see performances like that against Essendon.
 

Judd2Sewell

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 31, 2008
13,297
18,822
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Nuggets
Sure - and this happens fairly frequently. But this is what the best mids do each week, for longer each game, PLUS the occasional game changing burst.

We don't have the depth for his output to come and go like the tide within a game.
Hopefully Wingard getting injected into the middle will alleviate this.
 

GerryLewis

All Australian
Nov 10, 2015
608
1,895
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
San Antonio Spurs
JOM is a selfless player, the most selfless player in our side IMO.

Worpel owes that BnF to him, and as TFP has pointed out it was JOM that was doing all of the defensive running and hole-filling against Richmond. He was gassed.

When he plays a more natural game we see performances like that against Essendon.
Exactly right. Seeing it live he was constantly gut running back to fill holes. He was spent. Hopefully we allow him to play a more natural JOM game this week.
 

Changa10

Premiership Player
Feb 10, 2008
3,994
4,642
Hobart
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
DCowboys, ManU, Celtics, Blackhawks
Small things that irk me, the Martin goal from the centre bounce against us was great but the ball should have been returned to the umpire. That bounce was absolutely atrocious.

The next bounce was recalled. Of course that one was bounced in our favour though;)
 

rogiebear93

Norm Smith Medallist
May 17, 2017
6,744
15,473
AFL Club
Hawthorn
JOM is a selfless player, the most selfless player in our side IMO.

Worpel owes that BnF to him, and as TFP has pointed out it was JOM that was doing all of the defensive running and hole-filling against Richmond. He was gassed.

When he plays a more natural game we see performances like that against Essendon.
I reckon JOM would have been as grateful as anyone to have had Coniglio come into our side, given Cogs has a similar selflessness and defensive tenacity. It would have freed him up a lot.
 

Lickmesocks

Club Legend
Oct 2, 2019
1,148
4,145
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I reckon JOM would have been as grateful as anyone to have had Coniglio come into our side, given Cogs has a similar selflessness and defensive tenacity. It would have freed him up a lot.
Correct. Teams having to lock down on Cogs Mitchell and Jom would be too difficult.

At some stage we will be a destination club again and will have the money needed to add the pieces.
 

rogiebear93

Norm Smith Medallist
May 17, 2017
6,744
15,473
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Correct. Teams having to lock down on Cogs Mitchell and Jom would be too difficult.

At some stage we will be a destination club again and will have the money needed to add the pieces.
It's not as though we were miles off getting Coniglio though. It took AFL intervention and a captaincy offer to convince him to stay, reckon if that happened in 2020 the AFL would have been a lot less inclined to step in. Then all of a sudden we're a destination club, rorting free agency etc. etc.
 
Last edited:

JoeHawk

Norm Smith Medallist
May 19, 2008
7,766
11,325
Templestowe
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Never seen a board so offended by Tom Mitchell as Richmonds was yesterday. People don’t realise meters gained stat actually works in reverse if you kick/handball backwards?
Terrified he’s going to steal precious easy brownlow votes off Dusty, surely I’m not the only person who didn’t think dusty was in the best 3 players on the field yesterday.
If not for Dusty it could have been much closer.
 

essaynode

Senior List
Aug 24, 2009
221
510
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I know it shouldn't be about comparison, and it's not the same, but after last night's saints Richmond game, the low predictions for where we are going to finish on the ladder might be wrong. 😀
 

Strapping Young Lad

previously grumbleguts
Apr 19, 2006
68,412
130,701
Your local Satanist Cabal
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Spurs, Socceroos
I know it shouldn't be about comparison, and it's not the same, but after last night's saints Richmond game, the low predictions for where we are going to finish on the ladder might be wrong. 😀
If we can start turning up in the first quarter, we’d be a better side.
 

Remove this Banner Ad