Autopsy Round 2, 2023: Positives and Negatives vs GWS

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Positive: Being at the game, first win I've seen live in over two years! Felt pretty bloody good, had that sick sinking jolt after the siren as I'd totally forgotten the song but spirits remained high!

At the game, one thing I loved from Williams (and I've not always been his biggest fan) was that he really did the boring stuff well. Too often he does this big stupid fly for a mark which would be mark of the year if it came off but if he misses it means he's totally avoided influencing the contest. On Sunday he was getting in the right spots down the line and holding his ground so nobody else could mark it, getting in the way of at least one big oppo player if he couldn't get to it himself, getting both hands on it and dropping it at least in the general direction of our players rather than theirs, locking up his man more at ruck contests so that if they won the hitout it'd just be hitting the floor rather than directed anywhere dangerous (usually again he'd try and Nic Nat over the top of them in the past).

Wildly different players but I think we saw that massive upswing in Sheppard when he stopped seeming to try and do something special each time, play off the 'high draft pick pressure' and be this silky gun. Focused on locking things up, beating his man, if he was only a 10% chance to win a contest rather than try for the miracle chance he'd make sure to be in a position to scrag things up, impact the next contest, only lose it 51-49 etc etc. And his natural athleticism meant he was actually a phenomenal defensive player who could build confidence offensively as he felt comfortable in his spot.

Think there's something to work with, as a negating Nankervis #1 ruck role, still don't think he should play paired with another genuine ruck or try too hard to be Naitanui when he's barely even ready to be Bailey. His fitness is clearly something that he's gotten to a good degree and we probably need to acknowledge more. Still a massive doofus.

Am totally fine that McGovern Barrass and Allen weren't great - we already know they're good, can sort out positioning/shake off rust well before our seasons start to get 'on the line' again and would much rather we win off the back of players like SPS, Hunt, Ginbey, Long (newer players/bottom 6 picked etc) actually holding their weight and looking comfortable out there. Far better than our seniors dragging the team over the line like they would have done against North if we got up.

Gaff is my only real negative. Can't fault his effort - worryingly unlike last season where his running was clearly hampered, he actually looked to be moving alright. Which is scary as he was still ineffectual - he's lost 10m on his kick, 10% of his pace and I really, truly don't see a way forward for him unless he rediscovers that somehow and reinvents the way he plays quite a bit - which might have to happen in the WAFL when we need to be getting games into younger players, or even go slightly older and take our chance on seeing what a West/Clark can really do with a good run at it in a more full strength side. Sheed has shown consistently that he's probably the immediate future of Gaff's role as that more outside leaning left footed distributor, who whilst never as good a mover as prime Gaff was, is better at that than Gaff now and can play inside more consistently.

It'd usually be too much to drop both your wingers (I'd hope with Chesser they make a judgement call purely based on whatever will give him the most confidence, building form in WAFL or showing him faith by leaving him in the 1s.). But we've genuinely got options this year. He's the only player I actually think it's fair to moan about regarding credits in the bank.
Get Hunt more permanently on a wing. Give Hough some wing time. Practice midfield setups that involve one or none of Sheed/Kelly/Shuey by giving them more outside time (as most of them should be having more of) and back in Culley/West/Clark/Trew/Hewitt/even Hough to join Ginbey - who would served well building cohesion with those guys.

That being said the coaching and general direction of the side seemed a lot more positive (round 1 never a good one to judge but compared to last season definitely). Here's to a few more wins this year!
 
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The Jones role is hugely important and whilst he was amazing on the weekend I think to challenge for a premiership we need a player with the best parts of his game but with significantly better kicking in the role long term.

He definitely makes some errors but I actually think his kicking itself in terms of action and the precision that he himself intends is pretty good (if he had to spear it at target boards reckon he'd be alright).

A guy in the stands described him loudly as "overexcited" and I reckon that sums up his kicking and decision making surrounding it perfectly - you can tell he's going "SWEET! A HOLE IN THE F50! THE BOYS'LL GET THERE FOR SURE, I BACK EM, LET'S LAUNCH IT RIGHT NOW" - without actually looking to see if anyone's leading there.

He's an ex-forward who's not settled in the side, trying to play 6 levels of excitement above a team who's leading patterns are still a little stodgy, and who doesn't have that experience of taking that little split second to really decide where he wants to send it. However did see him often doing some quality wheelarounds to get his man out the way and give himself a bit more time to have a look, which I reckon was a positive. Sam Mitchell made a career out of doing that to give himself time to make the perfect decision, not staying Jones is a quarter as smart but was good to see.

Suppose I do agree in general that to win a premiership we need a player of Jones' skillset but with consistently improved outcomes/retention of his kicks. I just think that player can in time be Jones himself :)

Whilst very different players and his kicking will never reach this ridiculous level, Lewis Jetta did kick 19 behinds before his first goal, and whilst always having a beautiful action wasn't renowned for his distribution until those smarts grew across his career. Shuey would tend to blaze it early on after bursting away from someone before getting better at sometimes taking the boring option when he had to. JJ hasn't yet played 50 games, I reckon he'll be a weapon at 100 if he plays the next 50 consistently picked in the role he played on the weekend!
 

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Everything has been covered but gotta say why did Gaff get 10+ centre bounces after none the weekend before... I thought his game against North Melbourne was one of his more effective games in the last year or so.

The Giants game with a load of time spent in the guts saw a regression to liability.

It's a bit mind boggling because he's so clearly obviously a better wingman than midfielder.
 
+ The whole team bar one.

- Gaff. He looks like his heart isn't in it any more.
Strong username to post correlation.

Gaff's disposal is a big problem (68% disposal efficiency when 18 of your 22 disposals are uncontested is um ... not ideal). But I'm not sure you can question his heart: highest km run and km run at high speed for us, 2nd highest average speed, equal fourth number of sprint efforts.
 
I agree with so much of this I feel like I don't need to type it out and it's easier to just quote you. The Jones role is hugely important and whilst he was amazing on the weekend I think to challenge for a premiership we need a player with the best parts of his game but with significantly better kicking in the role long term.

The hard thing I think people are going to find going through the next few rounds is until we get Yeo, Culley and Nicnat back and into that centre square we are almost certainly going to get dominated through the middle and people will be up in arms as we get dominated and struggle to get the ball out of the back half.

But when we do get dominated through the middle and we do get locked in the back half we aren't going to look great and people are going to bitch and moan about the forwards when there is really nothing they can do other than getting sucked up and then us getting stopped in the middle of the ground.

Sound like the second half of 2021 and all of 2022 anyone? This game plan change has been worked on and partially implemented at times since the bye in 2021. It is going to take development of the squad, some more quality players, time and experience for it to all gel and work. While these are the key points I also want people to look deeper at the changes the club is making in regards to the game plan and it's not just a chaos ball copy. It is still about good skills by hand, foot and marking but with more run, carry and pace from behind with lowering of the eyes to put the ball to the advantage of forwards with a key being on winning the ball. I actually think it's a game plan that can have sustained AFL success and is a lot less reliant upon a dominant forward line if we can get the stoppage setups right and keep player buy in I'd actually like to see it in full flow in 2026 onwards as I believe it could achieve dynasty like success. The club is just missing so many of the key players (at least half not on the list yet) and the development of the ones we have for it to come to fruition. I stand by that with good recruiting and development we will have a genuine premiership window from 2027-2030 or so.

I then think the hardest part of the equation is I don't think everyday supporters have the patience to wait it out and see if through to fruition as they have become so used to sustained success and playing finals football. I would hate nothing more than the impatience of the supporter base to pull this short only to then have us become an almost side like so many others who get close to but either never genuinely challenge for a premiership or have a genuine premiership window with the build. This will take years longer than it has in the past even absolutely nailing the next couple of drafts.

The club needs almost all the key pieces via the draft one the list by the end of 2025 then we can look at trading in and free agency for the final pieces in the years that follow.

Lastly just a quick shout out to two of the blokes I always seem to need to have the back of on here in Snake Waterman and Jamie Cripps. I'd also like to point out Waterman doesn't get separation due to athleticism in comparison to our other forwards as that is outright and completely wrong. He gets separation due to high footy IQ and forward craft because he is actually nowhere athletically near the best on our list.
I like what your saying but it also sounds like you are advocating Simmo to implement the plan (as he is the the architect) so he will be with us for the next tilt at the GF?
I like Simmo so I don't mind but some supporters here might bust a pooper valve.
 
I enjoyed watching the eagles play for the 1st time in years. Run and carry was great to see. Even if they ended up losing i would have been happy with the pace they moved the ball.
Didn't enjoy
Positive: Being at the game, first win I've seen live in over two years! Felt pretty bloody good, had that sick sinking jolt after the siren as I'd totally forgotten the song but spirits remained high!

At the game, one thing I loved from Williams (and I've not always been his biggest fan) was that he really did the boring stuff well. Too often he does this big stupid fly for a mark which would be mark of the year if it came off but if he misses it means he's totally avoided influencing the contest. On Sunday he was getting in the right spots down the line and holding his ground so nobody else could mark it, getting in the way of at least one big oppo player if he couldn't get to it himself, getting both hands on it and dropping it at least in the general direction of our players rather than theirs, locking up his man more at ruck contests so that if they won the hitout it'd just be hitting the floor rather than directed anywhere dangerous (usually again he'd try and Nic Nat over the top of them in the past).

Wildly different players but I think we saw that massive upswing in Sheppard when he stopped seeming to try and do something special each time, play off the 'high draft pick pressure' and be this silky gun. Focused on locking things up, beating his man, if he was only a 10% chance to win a contest rather than try for the miracle chance he'd make sure to be in a position to scrag things up, impact the next contest, only lose it 51-49 etc etc. And his natural athleticism meant he was actually a phenomenal defensive player who could build confidence offensively as he felt comfortable in his spot.

Think there's something to work with, as a negating Nankervis #1 ruck role, still don't think he should play paired with another genuine ruck or try too hard to be Naitanui when he's barely even ready to be Bailey. His fitness is clearly something that he's gotten to a good degree and we probably need to acknowledge more. Still a massive doofus.

Am totally fine that McGovern Barrass and Allen weren't great - we already know they're good, can sort out positioning/shake off rust well before our seasons start to get 'on the line' again and would much rather we win off the back of players like SPS, Hunt, Ginbey, Long (newer players/bottom 6 picked etc) actually holding their weight and looking comfortable out there. Far better than our seniors dragging the team over the line like they would have done against North if we got up.

Gaff is my only real negative. Can't fault his effort - worryingly unlike last season where his running was clearly hampered, he actually looked to be moving alright. Which is scary as he was still ineffectual - he's lost 10m on his kick, 10% of his pace and I really, truly don't see a way forward for him unless he rediscovers that somehow and reinvents the way he plays quite a bit - which might have to happen in the WAFL when we need to be getting games into younger players, or even go slightly older and take our chance on seeing what a West/Clark can really do with a good run at it in a more full strength side. Sheed has shown consistently that he's probably the immediate future of Gaff's role as that more outside leaning left footed distributor, who whilst never as good a mover as prime Gaff was, is better at that than Gaff now and can play inside more consistently.

It'd usually be too much to drop both your wingers (I'd hope with Chesser they make a judgement call purely based on whatever will give him the most confidence, building form in WAFL or showing him faith by leaving him in the 1s.). But we've genuinely got options this year. He's the only player I actually think it's fair to moan about regarding credits in the bank.
Get Hunt more permanently on a wing. Give Hough some wing time. Practice midfield setups that involve one or none of Sheed/Kelly/Shuey by giving them more outside time (as most of them should be having more of) and back in Culley/West/Clark/Trew/Hewitt/even Hough to join Ginbey - who would served well building cohesion with those guys.

That being said the coaching and general direction of the side seemed a lot more positive (round 1 never a good one to judge but compared to last season definitely). Here's to a few more wins this year!

Interesting you say "Am totally fine that McGovern Barrass and Allen weren't great - we already know they're good, can sort out positioning/shake...."

With all the stats showing successful clubs this year have upped the ante as moving the ball very quickly, the commentary (yes I know some of it comes from dribble dick Gary) is that loose back man who guard space are being exposed.

I suspect there is an issue here and probably case point was Gov/Barrass dropping heaps of marks on the weekend, probably because the ball was coming in a bit quicker and they had less time to set up for the easy uncontested mark.

Reckon Barrass can lock down but Gov has never really shown he is prepared to do this so playing teams like Collingwood/Carlton could get interesting.

If Tabs/Jackson get off the leash this week then it will be pretty damning for these 2.
 
Wasn't at the game but one thing I thought was interesting, on the broadcast one of the commentators (and I'm loathe to give him any credit but I think it was Dermott) mentioned that we seemed to be running Shuey off the back of the centre square at CBD and he would run straight through towards the contest in the middle as soon as the ball was bounced. Sounds to me to be a bit like the spitter tactic that we used to use before 6/6/6 came in, except Shuey obviously was leaving a man wide open behind him so it's a fair bit riskier.

Shuey was starting inside D50 at the top of the arc and then sprinting into the centre square when the ball was bounced to create an out number.

There is some risk with it but if you start to gain ascendancy from winning those clearances decisively, all of a sudden the oppo are putting their wingers on the back of the square getting ready to flood numbers into defence so you shift them tactically, which leads to high quality clearances.

I like the move. It is the spitter role but a little delayed. It means Shuey can meet the contest at pace and either block up a lane if the oppo work it through forward handballs or he's already on the move to receive a chain of handball if we win the clearance so he can spot up a kick inside our 50.
 
Strong username to post correlation.

Gaff's disposal is a big problem (68% disposal efficiency when 18 of your 22 disposals are uncontested is um ... not ideal). But I'm not sure you can question his heart: highest km run and km run at high speed for us, 2nd highest average speed, equal fourth number of sprint efforts.

You know what they say about statistics don't you? I'm not questioning his heart based on stats. Anyone who's been in the AFL for over a decade and is still earning close to a million dollars a year knows how to make his stats look respectable. Did you watch the game? Want me to show some clipped examples?
 
You know what they say about statistics don't you?
You are proving the truth of your username again. Sure, statistics can be manipulated but are you really suggesting Gaff is running around just to inflate his km and sprint stats because his heart isnt in playing football anymore?

Did you watch the game?
Yes

Want me to show some clipped examples?

Ah, yes, anecdotal evidence is much more persuasive than facts! So, yes, I'd be happy to be shown some clipped examples that you think demonstrate that Gaff's heart isn't in it anymore.
 
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You are proving the truth of your username again. Sure, statistics can be manipulated but are you really suggesting Gaff is running around just to inflate his km and sprint stats because his heart isnt in playing footaball anymore?

Nice strawman you're trying to erect there. No, that's not what I'm saying and you know it. BTW are you Italian?
 

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Another good Ask Simmo segment, which again features a question from a Bigfooty poster

So much better with Schofield taking over from Gossage



A couple of familiar names in there.

Schoey basically stole my question about JJ before he got to the fans’ questions 😡
 
Nice strawman you're trying to erect there. No, that's not what I'm saying and you know it. BTW are you Italian?

Haha, no, not Italian, was just a mistake. Continuing this discussion is probably also a mistake, but anyway...

My response was in no way a stawman: You said "- Gaff. He looks like his heart isn't in it any more" and that is what I am directly refuting. (Not the "-Gaff" part, I agreed with that, its the "his heart isn't in it any more" part I disagree with.
 
Interesting you say "Am totally fine that McGovern Barrass and Allen weren't great - we already know they're good, can sort out positioning/shake...."

With all the stats showing successful clubs this year have upped the ante as moving the ball very quickly, the commentary (yes I know some of it comes from dribble dick Gary) is that loose back man who guard space are being exposed.

I suspect there is an issue here and probably case point was Gov/Barrass dropping heaps of marks on the weekend, probably because the ball was coming in a bit quicker and they had less time to set up for the easy uncontested mark.

Reckon Barrass can lock down but Gov has never really shown he is prepared to do this so playing teams like Collingwood/Carlton could get interesting.

If Tabs/Jackson get off the leash this week then it will be pretty damning for these 2.

I probably didn't phrase it super well and do agree with all you're saying - it is a negative but I suppose I meant that if Barrass/McGovern having positioning/even form issues is our big negative out of the match then that's a positive thing in a weird way - far better than the negative being that our bottom 6 didn't perform, our fringe/developing players were terrible yet again etc etc. Feels nice to be casting my mind around for issues and arrive on that. Positive negativity (or negative positivity!)

For me much of this season is about discovery as well as development - discovering which fringe players are keepers going forward, what the best way to develop certain players is, whether we're showing signs that our gameplan can work. It's so bloody nice to look at players like Ginbey, Long, SPS, Jones, even Hunt and go yep, I see where they're going, I'm happy with where they were played on the weekend and keen to lock them into that role all season, they played good and can all play even better. Last season we were playing lots of fringe players also but I feel like it was so bad and scattered we didn't learn/grow in any discernable direction - Barrass was outstanding in most games last year and the issue was those SPS types.

Obviously it's not ideal that Barrass/Gov didn't fire but I don't think there's any doubt they're excellent players in the right conditions. Don't think we discovered anything new about them the past 2 weeks. We've known for ages they struggle without another tall like Schofield to actually lockdown for them, and that they often play better without the other (Barrass was great last year even with the quick ball movement coming in). Either they'll work it out, we'll reshuffle a little, or Gov will retire by the time we're challenging again - far less scary than wondering who'll play in the midfield in 4 years.
 
Shuey was starting inside D50 at the top of the arc and then sprinting into the centre square when the ball was bounced to create an out number.

There is some risk with it but if you start to gain ascendancy from winning those clearances decisively, all of a sudden the oppo are putting their wingers on the back of the square getting ready to flood numbers into defence so you shift them tactically, which leads to high quality clearances.

I like the move. It is the spitter role but a little delayed. It means Shuey can meet the contest at pace and either block up a lane if the oppo work it through forward handballs or he's already on the move to receive a chain of handball if we win the clearance so he can spot up a kick inside our 50.
Yeah noticed when Shuey was spitting, we had cole and hunt on the wings, seemed like setting the wings up defensively, to go straighter and quicker from the centre bounce with shuey the attacking half back 3rd man in. It seemed to work well, aiding in CB clearances overall.

Loved seeing the fast attack from the other flankers in general play - duggan and JJ - and especially loved duggan running through the line of the ball on multiple occassions, causing some GWS collateral damage (not celebrating injuries, but the hardness of the play).

All I wanted to see this year was effort and contested play, different and more attacking tactics, and transition in the young talent. So far, the early signs are positive, the new batch look mighty impressive.

Also noticeable the team spirit was good, they seem to be enjoying footy again.

Great to have a home win, much more to enjoy this season!
 
I take it from the subtext that they’re not sold Waterman’s all around game is adequate if he’s in the side as a tall utility as opposed to a designated forward or a back which is fair enough, but if Jamieson is the alternative then you start to worry
 
It's very refreshing to see a player like Ginbey in the Eagles, I haven't seen that kind of hunger out of our players for a very long time.

I'm not sure if O.Allen is as good as we think he is, he has ability but he needs to work on his mental game.
 
It's very refreshing to see a player like Ginbey in the Eagles, I haven't seen that kind of hunger out of our players for a very long time.

I'm not sure if O.Allen is as good as we think he is, he has ability but he needs to work on his mental game.

Any danger we'll give Oz a block of footy to build some form before whacking him? Until round 1 he hadn't played professionally in almost 600 days.
 
It's very refreshing to see a player like Ginbey in the Eagles, I haven't seen that kind of hunger out of our players for a very long time.

I'm not sure if O.Allen is as good as we think he is, he has ability but he needs to work on his mental game.

Injury is the only concern with Allen. He is going pretty OK for a guy who has been our of the game for a whole season IMO. He'll find touch soon.
 

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