Preview Round 2: Sydney vs Adelaide, Friday @ SCG

Who will win?


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Bless

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Changes not really surprising, I thought that they'd bring in another running defender and bring back Ronke to add balance to the forward line. Would've liked Dawson to get consecutive games but be on notice to see if he could redeem himself but it's a cut throat business.

Hope the changes in the make up allow Mills and Heeney to spend most of the game in the middle
 

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The King!

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Mills off half back is fine for his marking, I’d almost prefer Lloyd move up to the wing and get him accumulating and delivering forward


Heeney needs more time in the guts, Kennedy needs less, might have to go forward

Parker needs to lift and play 4 quarters, also keep your feet, he slips everywhere

Papley midfield is a waste of time

Florent needs to get a kick
 

caesar88

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I feel like the sideways only happens when there isn't an option down the line. Instead of kicking it long down the line to the dismay of everyone here, atleast we're keeping the ball. It's obvious in our skills and constant fumbling, lowering the eyes isn't even an option with deplorable skills. If I didn't see an elite team for 6 solid years under horse trust me id be on your bandwagon. We used to score 120+ points for a laugh, our hands in close, ball handling and skills were immaculate. We used to run the ball from our defensive 50 to our goals square with 3 handballs and a kick. We used to swarm the opposition no matter where the ball was on the ground. It's funny how hindsight only works at certain times.

Yes we don't have the same team anymore and we need to adapt in certain areas. But you can only adapt to a certain point. The fundamentals of footy have always stayed the same. If your squad is unbalanced and you have a weak midfield, you're shouting for no reason. No coach can just make a team tick by moving a few magnets around. With that logic you'd have Clarke going to Carlton and winning the premiership
I feel like we clearly just watched different teams from 2012 to 2016. Everything you spoke of in the first paragraph were not attributes that I ever remember frequently appearing in Swans games. Occasionally yes, but never "for a laugh" and never "immaculately". What impressed me about that version of the Swans team was our ability to win 50/50 balls, over, and over, and over, and over. That we did for a laugh. We won our possession through our dominance in contested situations and stoppages, and generally maintained possession via those methods, too. We won so much of the footy that it didn't matter if we'd butcher the footy or move it slowly because the ball was just always in our possession.

Except the times when it did matter. Like when the Hawks would often beat us with their superior skills, or the Bulldogs and GWS would often beat us (and still do) with their superior pace and spread. So yeah, I think Horse's challenge right now is to improve us in the two areas where we have always struggled, which is ball movement and skill. Forgive me for believing that after eight years, he's not going to miraculously crack the code and bring those qualities into our game.
 

kickthething

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you are kidding, right?
You are conveniently glossing over the aspects of our game that are clearly instructed. Like the way we present sideways out of defence, like how our half backs intentionally take those sideways options, like how we intentionally ignore taking the corridor switch in favour of a long bomb down the line, like how our forwards are always being sucked up the ground instead of remaining inside 50, like how our midfielders never lower their eyes and instead go for the kick and hope out of the centre square (yet conveniently harness their eye-lowering abilities when Buddy is injured!). Just like how we can conveniently harness our attacking qualities when the game is on the line and we're at risk of a game slipping out of our reach.

.
100%......the slow sideways ball movement is an instructed way of settling up for us. Watching most sides, they are trying to move the ball quickly which forces defences to react, we are so slow defences dictate to us what our attack will be.

This low risk low reward strategy is one from days gone by, and Wiil not bring success in 2019. I think Horse has to stop being scared of losing, and actually risk things to win. Win a game by scoring more points than the opposition, not by restricting them to a lower score than we can produce. (You know what I mean, right!!)

This year is going to be really interesting for.us as we try to stay relevant in the competition. The evolution in the box may be the most interesting.
 

caesar88

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100%......the slow sideways ball movement is an instructed way of settling up for us. Watching most sides, they are trying to move the ball quickly which forces defences to react, we are so slow defences dictate to us what our attack will be.

This low risk low reward strategy is one from days gone by, and Wiil not bring success in 2019. I think Horse has to stop being scared of losing, and actually risk things to win. Win a game by scoring more points than the opposition, not by restricting them to a lower score than we can produce. (You know what I mean, right!!)

This year is going to be really interesting for.us as we try to stay relevant in the competition. The evolution in the box may be the most interesting.
I get why Horse does it. He's probably so used to having teams that are limited in terms of how many dynamic players they have, and how much firepower they have up forward, and so he's had to find alternative ways (like being prepared to over-defend) to ensure victory.

But right now he's got players with pace, he's got players with aerial ability, he's got a starting forward line that actually has six forwards in it. These are all luxuries he's never had, even going back to his assistant years under Roos. I know they're young and/or inexperienced so the inconsistencies will come, but by golly if he loosened the shackles I have no doubt the rewards would be worth it in the long run.

Got everything needed to make a really dangerous team, we just play like we are the endangered ones.
 

TheMase

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You specifically made the argument that Horse had tapped Grundy on the shoulder and made him a casualty of the youth movement. I was talking specifically about the last game where I think everyone could unanimously agree that Grundy was far from our worst defender. You obviously believe Horse doesn't just have both eyes on the present, but has one eye on the long game.

So riddle me this...

If Horse is such a youth-inspired guillotine-expert with our fossils, why did he make the young, promising rising star of our back-line Aliir Aliir the scape-goat for Grundy when he was absolutely putrid and lazy and also unfit during our 0-6 run? I love Grundy and always been a warrior but that was not two months of his career that he would be proud of as his effort and intensity simply wasn't there. So why wasn't he dropped and Aliir was?

Because of the experience Grundy offered over Aliir? (Don't we need that experience now after a pretty disappointing loss?)

Or did it have nothing to do with Grundy, but Aliir simply needed to find form in the NEAFL? (Doesn't Melican need that now after a very ordinary month or so?)

My post was purely about a hypothetical (and in my opinion likely) end of 2018 season chat with Grundy during contract negotiations and him likely being told he has another year but they will prioritise Melican.

Again, list management (in particular) and selection is bigger than Horse, so I won’t be dragged into an irrelevant debate.

I have no interest in discussing other situations, my post was specifically about Grundy being re-signed and my opinion of his place in the pecking order.

My team selection was:
In: Ronke, COR and Thurlow
Out: One if Dawson/Blakey/Hayward, Grundy and Clarke

I also had Thurlow to backs with Lloyd pushing to the wing. That didn’t eventuate but I am ok with that. Wasn’t disrespecting of Clarke more a rethink of structure/positioning.

So I can hardly argue any other point that he was omitted considering that’s what I declared early in this thread was what I would do / what I think might happen.
 
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BloodySwan

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Mills off half back is fine for his marking, I’d almost prefer Lloyd move up to the wing and get him accumulating and delivering forward


Heeney needs more time in the guts, Kennedy needs less, might have to go forward

Parker needs to lift and play 4 quarters, also keep your feet, he slips everywhere

Papley midfield is a waste of time

Florent needs to get a kick
Only point I don't agree with is Papley. I loved what I saw in the JLT and get why we want him in the coal face. Offers grunt and drive which none of our other midfielders do.
 

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zyzzbruh

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I get why Horse does it. He's probably so used to having teams that are limited in terms of how many dynamic players they have, and how much firepower they have up forward, and so he's had to find alternative ways (like being prepared to over-defend) to ensure victory.

But right now he's got players with pace, he's got players with aerial ability, he's got a starting forward line that actually has six forwards in it. These are all luxuries he's never had, even going back to his assistant years under Roos. I know they're young and/or inexperienced so the inconsistencies will come, but by golly if he loosened the shackles I have no doubt the rewards would be worth it in the long run.

Got everything needed to make a really dangerous team, we just play like we are the endangered ones.
On paper we do have positions covered with quality players on both ends of the ground. But there's a massive hole in the middle called the midfield. Our midfield right now is absolutely fried, they're inept. Doesn't matter if we have fricken juju in the forward line, it means s**t all of we can't get it there.

Our midfield needs to transform before we can expect our team or the coaches to be capable of competing at the top. We need to realise that our superior defence last year is what made us half competitive.
 

SilentHunter_

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On paper we do have positions covered with quality players on both ends of the ground. But there's a massive hole in the middle called the midfield. Our midfield right now is absolutely fried, they're inept. Doesn't matter if we have fricken juju in the forward line, it means s**t all of we can't get it there.

Our midfield needs to transform before we can expect our team or the coaches to be capable of competing at the top. We need to realise that our superior defence last year is what made us half competitive.
I think this is the first time I have completely agreed with you. Spot on.
 

zyzzbruh

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I feel like we clearly just watched different teams from 2012 to 2016. Everything you spoke of in the first paragraph were not attributes that I ever remember frequently appearing in Swans games. Occasionally yes, but never "for a laugh" and never "immaculately". What impressed me about that version of the Swans team was our ability to win 50/50 balls, over, and over, and over, and over. That we did for a laugh. We won our possession through our dominance in contested situations and stoppages, and generally maintained possession via those methods, too. We won so much of the footy that it didn't matter if we'd butcher the footy or move it slowly because the ball was just always in our possession.

Except the times when it did matter. Like when the Hawks would often beat us with their superior skills, or the Bulldogs and GWS would often beat us (and still do) with their superior pace and spread. So yeah, I think Horse's challenge right now is to improve us in the two areas where we have always struggled, which is ball movement and skill. Forgive me for believing that after eight years, he's not going to miraculously crack the code and bring those qualities into our game.
Fair assesment if that's the way you saw it. I agree with everything you said minus the running and ball movement. I clearly remember our hands in tight was mind boggling, I was in awe at times. We used to spread out of our defensive 50 like they were skiiing down a hill. McVeigh, malcho, McGlynn, Jetta, jack, Kennedy, hanners, a young Parker, they used to run, spread and transition like their lives depended on it. Our percentage was always superior.
 
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kickthething

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you are kidding, right?
The biggest upside for us this week is that Adelaide are not exactly setting the world on fire. The too play a rather hesitant style of footy. Seedsman in is good for them, although I would argue their ins/outs are probably losing more than they ga in, where we may be the opposite. We have infected some energy, it remains to be seen if COR. Can really get things moving from HB, Ronke has had his kick in the pants and I am really keen to see him respond this week. His forward 50 pressure will be a nice bonus.

Whilst I expect a loss here, I also expect a win...I am really unsure as we have two sides with reputations that don’t match the reality of how they are playing. It wouldn’t surprise me to see a 6-7 goal lead at qtr time in this one. If it’s us with the lead, bet you anything it’s even by half time as we go 8nto our shell and protect a lead from qtr time.

I fear for LMellican.He may be a big victim of 666 . His movement on Saturday was not great, and I am not so sure he improved as the game went on. All the time out has been detrimental f or him. The very raw Justin McInerney might just be an answer to leg speed and defensive pressure through that closing speed. Through his last yr at TAC Cup he owned the half back line in some games. I just feel he might be a real Smokey, even being underdone in terms of years, he has great fitness and really good foot skills. Just neeeds to be given the chance to build confidence at the level. He is genuinely a year away, we just may not be in a position to wait that long.

Mills as a mid seems one that will materialise this week. Clarke lucky to hold his place.
 

zyzzbruh

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Again, on paper the team looks fine but too many of our elites have aged and can't carry the load anymore.
And the middle aged blokes like Parker, Hewett and Jones etc havnt exactly taken the load the way we thought they would. It's knocked off our balance. Otherwise we'd be waiting for our young guns to step up with a bit more patience and stability.
 

zyzzbruh

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We're still such a slow slide relative to the best in the competition even with the ins imo. Tactics don't help us either in this regard.
Even if our tactics were 'run and press' would we actually be able to notice it since our players lack the attributes? I mean this is what I can't agree with re the tactics assesment by fans. It's clear that we're slow, so I don't see how you could even tell if that was our game plan or not. Horse could be blue in the face telling them to get on their bike for all we know.
 

SilentHunter_

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Even if our tactics were 'run and press' would we actually be able to notice it since our players lack the attributes? I mean this is what I can't agree with re the tactics assesment by fans. It's clear that we're slow, so I don't see how you could even tell if that was our game plan or not. Horse could be blue in the face telling them to get on their bike for all we know.
Ball movement is slow and that just makes us look ridiculously slow. We always go the safe option rather than take the opposition's defensive structure on - that much is obvious.
 
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