Autopsy Round 2 vs Bravedogs. Things learnt

[alanlau34]

Umpiring has been covered, but I need to say it anyway. What an absolute disgrace. I refuse to believe that we are a such an undisciplined and unskilled team that the discrepancy was so large once again. Truly Horse has to go back and coach our players to hover around the ball instead of cracking in, tackle players immediately and wrap their arms and ball so they can't just drop it, and wait for the HTB. Or get down low and shovel it out with both hands instead of trying to control and handball it, or drop it immediately in the direction of advantageous support, and then fall over so you get a free kick for being held.

Key players are still down, which hopefully means plenty of upside! Buddy just needs 10mins to break the game open despite having an average first 3 quarters, Hanners and Parks need a kick up the bum, kids were amazing and we probably have a couple of others like Melican who could have a good impact.

Reid was awesome, shame he had to ruck. Wish we had Towers in so that he could pinch hit instead
If we can even up the ledger until we get players like Papley, Rampe and Heeney back, I think we can make a solid run into the 8. With the extra week's break before finals, we could even win it from 7th. So Brave (TM)

 

[GotTheGoodes]

Hope Newman is able to match Stuey's heart. If he does, we will have something special.

Shit... Expectations of matching one of our most determined, courageous players..... Yeah, good luck Newy. I'd settle for a quarter the heart (still more than most).

 

[DrEvil_]

You guys got shafted by the umpire. Everyone is complaining about the Mills one but the Alirr 'hold' on Boyd was much worse.

 

[MK38]

People are saying that the dogs have learnt to exploit the rules but I don't get it - a throw is a throw. You drop the ball it is incorrect disposal etc. There is nothing "clever" about what the bulldogs are doing - they just aren't getting pinged for it. So I guess basically what this means is the Swans just need to ignore the rules.

 

[Vin Rogue]

Reid and Buddy were great up forward but we are really missing out in the crumbing department, the young blokes did a great job at times but there needs to be more consistency, can't wait for Papley and Rohan to be fit again. I think our mids are having a bit of a struggle working out their roles, now that we don't have Mitchell in there. In the first half Hanners in particular was doing a lot of spectating, he picked up late in the game when it was on the line and started getting in and under a lot more. I have faith they will work it out. Back line is doing OK, Lloyd is very good in particular without being overly conspicous, but having Macca back in a few weeks will be a huge boost. Aliir is a bit wasted playing at fullback, he's at his best when he's running the ball out.

I wouldn't be putting my faith in Macca. He has lost a yard of pace and he will never get it back. He has footy smarts and he has poise, but he should be officially seen as slow. Some slow players can continue/d to play good quality footy in their dotage - such as Sam Mitchell and Greg Williams, but they were never reliant on footspeed. Macca is no Williams or Mitchell. I don't think the Swans are good enough to be able to carry the liabilities he presents. ( No longer sticks his tackles and he is unable to corral or chase down an opponent with the ball ) He would be a better asset in the NEAFL teaching the new kids the Swans way.

 

[Vin Rogue]

Shit... Expectations of matching one of our most determined, courageous players..... Yeah, good luck Newy. I'd settle for a quarter the heart (still more than most).

Me too. But just to be clear...I am not making it an expectation. Far too much to expect. But I can wish for it and hope that Newman sets his sights on such a worthy goal.

 

[Tedeski]

Soundly reasoned. But what good is it if Sinclair knows the Swans game plan but can't take possession of the ball? He simply fails to mark the ball. Until that happens there is no upside at all. Better that we give the new ruck apprentice a crack at it. He can learn on the job.

I bet you wish he was on the bench last night after Tippo went down so that Sam Reid could do his business up forward & perhaps finish with 8 goals.
Tippett on the ground had us up 4 goals to zero & a forward set up that had last year's premiers on the back foot & we were exploiting their one deficiency & that is a lack of height down back.

So Sinclair will not be ruckman in order to dominate the game but rather provide back up to Naismith so that we can keep our structures up forward with Reid marking, Buddy roaming up the ground & resting ruckman providing a headache occasionally taking a grab as Boyd did last night for the one of his two goals that wasn't gifted to him.

So Sinclair has a capacity to do this but cope with Grundy & co in the ruck jumping into him whereas Cameron will definitely get there but is next in line.
The coaches will deal with it though!

 

[RW]

We got closer than many people expected before the game given the inexperienced players we had in the team. I thought we were gone in the third when the lead got close to 5 goals, that had nothing to do with the umpiring, their midfield was just stronger, faster and quicker. But we still managed to peg them back thanks to a bit of Buddy brilliance and actually hit the front.

So while this morning I am obviously disappointed and more than a little frustrated with some of the calls during that game, I can't fault that effort from us. The scoreboard now reads Beveridge 4 Longmire 0. People just need to accept that this mob has our measure at the moment.

 

[GotTheGoodes]

Me too. But just to be clear...I am not making it an expectation. Far too much to expect. But I can wish for it and hope that Newman sets his sights on such a worthy goal.

Bloody oath mate.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Stuey could also kick the odd bomb into the forward line. Hope Newman is able to match Stuey's heart. If he does, we will have something special.

Yes, Stuey was no sharpshooter, but his best field kicking was very good. And, yes on the heart. In my mind he has an 05 premiership medal, but here's hoping Newman can have an equally deserved one, but real.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Yes, Stuey was no sharpshooter, but his best field kicking was very good. And, yes on the heart. In my mind he has an 05 premiership medal, but here's hoping Newman can have an equally deserved one, but real.

Probably could have phrased that better, but whatever.

 

[Vin Rogue]

I bet you wish he was on the bench last night after Tippo went down so that Sam Reid could do his business up forward & perhaps finish with 8 goals.
Tippett on the ground had us up 4 goals to zero & a forward set up that had last year's premiers on the back foot & we were exploiting their one deficiency & that is a lack of height down back.

So Sinclair will not be ruckman in order to dominate the game but rather provide back up to Naismith so that we can keep our structures up forward with Reid marking, Buddy roaming up the ground & resting ruckman providing a headache occasionally taking a grab as Boyd did last night for the one of his two goals that wasn't gifted to him.

So Sinclair has a capacity to do this but cope with Grundy & co in the ruck jumping into him whereas Cameron will definitely get there but is next in line.
The coaches will deal with it though!

Again, very soundly reasoned. I just think that Cameron should be tried. If he is still too green and his inexperience hurts us, then we persevere with Sinclair. Knowing however, that he is an option whose past performances in the red and white have failed to excite. If he grabs his marks...then his future becomes very bright. If he continues with hard hands then we need to fast track our ruck apprentices.

 

[MK38]

We got closer than many people expected before the game given the inexperienced players we had in the team. I thought we were gone in the third when the lead got close to 5 goals, that had nothing to do with the umpiring, their midfield was just stronger, faster and quicker. But we still managed to peg them back thanks to a bit of Buddy brilliance and actually hit the front.

So while this morning I am obviously disappointed and more than a little frustrated with some of the calls during that game, I can't fault that effort from us. The scoreboard now reads Beveridge 4 Longmire 0. People just need to accept that this mob has our measure at the moment.

Take away those frustrating calls and we can only wonder who wins. And yes I know they have won the last 4 but two of those wins were under a kick and two were assisted by umpiring.

I agree re our effort. I rewatched those Buddy goals this morning and gee they were truly brilliant.

 

[MK38]

Anyway I guess we just have to move onto next week (it's just really hard to accept the losses when the umpiring has had such an effect on the last two matches - it's a bitter pill to swallow).

 

[Mick Oxlong]

So the AFL cleared the Mills free...of course they did! Under no physical pressure because Picken waved his arms around instead of tackling, which is exactly what he would have done once Mills took the ball!

 

[Superstar swan]

Forgetting the my team got robbed angle for a moment. Why is the AFL so hell bent on changing the fabric of the game? I just don't get it. Their rule changes are absolutely unnecessary. Not only that they're changed in the book without any clarification as to what it means. The fans, players, the umps, heck even the AFL themselves don't know what any of the rules mean and how they're supposed to be interpreted. It's a farce.

agree 100%...i highly doubt any fan at the end of 2016 said "great year of footy but unless they do something about this rushed behind epidemic that is destroying football at its very core, i wont be tuning in next year"...look at nba and the hack a jordan/drummond fiasco, that is one of the ugliest tactics in any sport in the world...and what did the nba do? Nothing...and no one cares

 

[Tedeski]

So the AFL cleared the Mills free...of course they did! Under no physical pressure because Picken waved his arms around instead of tackling, which is exactly what he would have done once Mills took the ball!

Spot on Mick!

Once again, the AFL want to show case their game to the rest of the world so Picken pulling up & waving his arms while the ball is still in play, is exactly the kind of theater they want for their future 'new' audience.

I should stress that the resultant goal is not why we lost.

Aliir having a red hot battle one on one with Boyd with more of Boyd's arms all over Aliir rather than the other way around.

I should stress that the resultant goal is not why we lost.



I think I said all the right things!

 

[swansfan51]

Trigger warning: facts

Despite the Bulldogs winning more contested ball than us, and having 60 more possessions in total, they still managed to out-tackle us. That is the sign of superior work-rate, when you lay more tackles even when your opposition has less of the ball. Perhaps that made a minor contribution to the result, even though most of it was umpiring

 

[brad cooper]

I really enjoyed last night with exception of umpiring and the result.

Hayward Florent Newman and Fox all showed something.

Reid was fantastic and would have kicked 8 if Tippett didn't get injured.

I thought Hewitt had his best game for us and showed he can become a good midfielder.

To run the bulldogs close at Etihad, losing Tippett early and hanners parker jack and kennedy not being at their best shows we have enough depth to compete with the best.

We're in for a good year

 

[Maddo11]

Too often last night we were punished for being first to the ball.

 

[BloodySwan]

Trigger warning: facts

Despite the Bulldogs winning more contested ball than us, and having 50 more possessions in total, they still managed to out-tackle us. That is the sign of superior work-rate, when you lay more tackles even when your opposition has less of the ball. Perhaps that made a minor contribution to the result, even though most of it was umpiring

Yeah their pressure was top notch and I hope it taught our boys what is the AFL standard. We tend to win the games when we win the tackle count

 

[TheMase]

When the dogs tackled us they appear to have a technique which pins one of the arms down. Player then has a choice, take a risk and go to ground and hope the umpire does not interpret as having prior, or try and force the ball out where we were continually called for incorrect disposal as we couldn't free the arm to create a legal disposal.

Most of the time we tried to force the ball out and got called for incorrect disposal.

This in isolation is okay, the issue is the interpretation seemed to be different for them/ our tackles weren't as effective and the "drop" or forcing the ball out illegally was more obvious (rather than "dislodged in the tackle" which is what I think the Dogs get away with as they just release straight away).

Bloody frustrating. We need to adapt this this interpretation and have our players ready for the dislodgement of the ball as a set plan as it seems the Dogs do.

 

[Tedeski]

Trigger warning: facts

Despite the Bulldogs winning more contested ball than us, and having 50 more possessions in total, they still managed to out-tackle us. That is the sign of superior work-rate, when you lay more tackles even when your opposition has less of the ball. Perhaps that made a minor contribution to the result, even though most of it was umpiring

This is not Super Coach!
This is real time football & not an artificially manufactured competition where everyone sits on their phones checking stats & assesses how many kicks & tackles their team has collected over the 3 games running concurrently.
I'm assuming you were at the game too & what stats don't tell you is the time allowed to the Dogs players when tackled was in another universe to that the Swans were in. Only a subtle interpretation change but we weren't given the latitude in many instances that they were so I will ignore the Doggie supporters sitting next to me who said we were pretty stiff on a number of occasions when we were pinged.

But I should stress that this is not why we lost because Super Coach ratings have them way ahead of us on stats so I should just ignore what I saw live at the game & how the momentum, which is not measured in any super coach ratings, was lost again at critical times.

But once again I should stress that this is not why we lost!

What do I know! I don't do super coach. I just watch 1 or 2 games of AFL live every week!

 

[Tedeski]

Actually sometimes 3 games!

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

When the dogs tackled us they appear to have a technique which pins one of the arms down. Player then has a choice, take a risk and go to ground and hope the umpire does not interpret as having prior, or try and force the ball out where we were continually called for incorrect disposal as we couldn't free the arm to create a legal disposal.

Most of the time we tried to force the ball out and got called for incorrect disposal.

This in isolation is okay, the issue is the interpretation seemed to be different for them/ our tackles weren't as effective and the "drop" or forcing the ball out illegally was more obvious (rather than "dislodged in the tackle" which is what I think the Dogs get away with as they just release straight away).

Bloody frustrating. We need to adapt this this interpretation and have our players ready for the dislodgement of the ball as a set plan as it seems the Dogs do.

Or we need to start using those one-arm-pinned tackles as much as they do.