Review Round 20, 2017 - Brisbane Lions vs. Western Bulldogs

[BRAB]

Did Josh run over your dog or something?

This is very full on

Ok.

 

[Kevvo]

What are you trying to argue when you're saying he's only young?

Are you trying to argue he hasn't been poor this year?

Are you trying to argue that he has shown more than a rookie draft pick (Hammer) this year?

When you're only arguments to Schache potentially showing something in the future are "He's only young" (so was jesse white) then you have to start accepting that the only reason you'd project a future that's full of promise is because Schache was taken high in the draft.

That's essentially his resume right now. Taken high in the draft, only young, seriously regressed in his second year.

He's had a pretty poor year all things considered, but this last line is where I disagree.

For young key forwards, acknowledging their normal development timeline, their U18 year should be one of the key indicators of their pedigree until at least their fourth year I reckon. When you're talking about 'his resume', it seems to me like you're undervaluing his exceptional U18 year (Larke medal and champs goals record), overemphasizing his regression this year and projecting out a trajectory from two years in the seniors when second year blues is a well documented phenomenon.

In that sense, I feel like 'he's only young' is a fair enough observation for someone who was so good against his peers only a couple of years ago. Not everyone makes the transition and he may not, but I feel like he's still a very good chance.

 

[Dalions]

What are you trying to argue when you're saying he's only young?

Are you trying to argue he hasn't been poor this year?

Are you trying to argue that he has shown more than a rookie draft pick (Hammer) this year?

When you're only arguments to Schache potentially showing something in the future are "He's only young" (so was jesse white) then you have to start accepting that the only reason you'd project a future that's full of promise is because Schache was taken high in the draft.

That's essentially his resume right now. Taken high in the draft, only young, seriously regressed in his second year.

Lets just put it down to 'second year blues'.
He'll come back bigger and stronger next year. Full of confidence and ready to bowl anyone over who gets in his way.

 

[Ironmonger]

I don't really agree that Schache has gone backwards this year. I think he's been more or less as good as he was last year. In fact I thought his game against the Eagles was his best performance.

 

[braddsey]

Lets just put it down to 'second year blues'.
He'll come back bigger and stronger next year. Full of confidence and ready to bowl anyone over who gets in his way.

Kids often perform well in their first year and fall down in their second. First year they're coming out of juniors where they were kings, confidence is sky high, they're totally pumped to get a game, and there's no real expectation on them. By the end of the first season the reality of seniors footy has sunk in and that there's a real grind to being a professional sportsman. 2nd year the joyful enthusiasm has worn off, opposition teams have worked them out, their own team starts to put rules and responsibility around how they play, and they need to work a lot harder to get the ball. They're still developing physically, so it's a grind.
3rd year onwards those who are going to make it grow in real confidence that they belong, their bodies are fitter, stronger, and they're no longer the smallest guys on the park.
The guys in our team suffer more from this because they don't have the big bodied seniors to help them through it so much... but take a look at GWS. We'll be following a similar track - with the benefit that our club has a soul!

 

[BRAB]

He's had a pretty poor year all things considered, but this last line is where I disagree.

For young key forwards, acknowledging their normal development timeline, their U18 year should be one of the key indicators of their pedigree until at least their fourth year I reckon. When you're talking about 'his resume', it seems to me like you're undervaluing his exceptional U18 year (Larke medal and champs goals record), overemphasizing his regression this year and projecting out a trajectory from two years in the seniors when second year blues is a well documented phenomenon.

In that sense, I feel like 'he's only young' is a fair enough observation for someone who was so good against his peers only a couple of years ago. Not everyone makes the transition and he may not, but I feel like he's still a very good chance.

This is a really good point mate. Hadn't really given those U18's performances as much weight

 

[Kevvo]

This is a really good point mate. Hadn't really given those U18's performances as much weight

Don't get me wrong, I was as disappointed as anyone with some of his contests on the weekend. I just think he has a lot of class and needs to rebuild his confidence more comprehensively.

 

[bungalow_bill]

Lets just put it down to 'second year blues'.
He'll come back bigger and stronger next year. Full of confidence and ready to bowl anyone over who gets in his way.

In Schache's case it's exacerbated by all the drama over his resigning. Next year he'll be throwing Rance around like he's a rag doll

 

[jackess]

I could understand getting outbodied by Rance but getting tossed around by Biggs on the weekend was embarrassing.

Plus his disposal. He's been unselectable for the whole season.

 

[LongLion]

What are you trying to argue when you're saying he's only young?

Are you trying to argue he hasn't been poor this year?

Are you trying to argue that he has shown more than a rookie draft pick (Hammer) this year?

When you're only arguments to Schache potentially showing something in the future are "He's only young" (so was jesse white) then you have to start accepting that the only reason you'd project a future that's full of promise is because Schache was taken high in the draft.

That's essentially his resume right now. Taken high in the draft, only young, seriously regressed in his second year.

You on the angry pills?

 

[LongLion]

I don't really agree that Schache has gone backwards this year. I think he's been more or less as good as he was last year. In fact I thought his game against the Eagles was his best performance.

Agree thought eagles game was OK but still think he will benefit by going back to ressies for remainder of the year. He'll come good

 

[BRAB]

You on the angry pills?

Thanks for the well considered response mate.

 

[Ironmonger]

Agree thought eagles game was OK but still think he will benefit by going back to ressies for remainder of the year. He'll come good

It's possible that will work.

My theory is that he's simply a bit scared. The guys he's playing against now hit much harder than anyone he played against before being drafted. It's perfectly natural to not want to be hurt.

Maybe with a bit more muscle and a few more mature bodies around him he relaxes a bit more. Maybe he'll just never adapt to that big leap from full body contact in under 18s to full body contact in the AFL.

You'd want the NEAFL to be a happy medium, allowing him to make that adjustment, but unfortunately most of the defenders he'd get to play against aren't really as big or powerful as AFL players.

 

[Dalions]

In Schache's case it's exacerbated by all the drama over his resigning. Next year he'll be throwing Rance around like he's a rag doll

I honestly think that if he can get his goal kicking right again. He will be a completely different beast next year.
Maybe we need to put him in the boxing ring and let him get hit a couple of times. It might teach him what it feels like to actually get angry. And the hate to get beaten. And to know what he needs to feel when going into a contest. A bit of 'Mongrel' and some 'emotion'.
It was the doubt with Freeman, and he has not come on. I dont want the same thing to happen with Schache.

 

[bhys16]

Can we show a bit of perspective on Schache and look back just one week to when he toweled up his career long comparison Jacob Weitering and easily won the direct battle.. Schache will be one of our best ever forwards, just give him a couple of years..

 

[LongLion]

Looks like the general consensus has plenty of support for Schache with a realisation that it is only his 2nd year and he has plenty of development still to come and he should come good.

 

[Eons]

Looks like the general consensus has plenty of support for Schache with a realisation that it is only his 2nd year and he has plenty of development still to come and he should come good.

Think most supporters just want to see more aggression in his game.

 

[T Rick]

Think most supporters just want to see more aggression in his game.

Fages made a quite pointed remark in his presser after the Dogs game regarding Josh Walker "getting hungry" for the contest after being sent back to the NEAFL...It has certainly worked for Walker and I wondered at the time if it wasn't a message for Schache as well. We will see come selection time this week.

 

[BuntonRules]

I honestly think that if he can get his goal kicking right again. He will be a completely different beast next year.
Maybe we need to put him in the boxing ring and let him get hit a couple of times. It might teach him what it feels like to actually get angry. And the hate to get beaten. And to know what he needs to feel when going into a contest. A bit of 'Mongrel' and some 'emotion'.
It was the doubt with Freeman, and he has not come on. I dont want the same thing to happen with Schache.

This is a major factor to me. He seems to get burnt a lot - makes a good lead/position but gets ignored - maybe the rest do not have the confidence in him yet to give to him on instinct. As to the competitive stuff, I like the boxing idea. And I would put him back to the ressies this week - for the season - with instructions to hit packs, play physically, and deliver a premiership. Over the summer an intensive school of contested marking - Lynchy would be my choice of coach as that was what he relied on.

 

[Ceebee]

I thinh he should play the last 3 games in the seniors.
Only way he will toughen up in my opinion.

 

[Len S]

It's possible that will work.

My theory is that he's simply a bit scared. The guys he's playing against now hit much harder than anyone he played against before being drafted. It's perfectly natural to not want to be hurt.

Maybe with a bit more muscle and a few more mature bodies around him he relaxes a bit more. Maybe he'll just never adapt to that big leap from full body contact in under 18s to full body contact in the AFL.

You'd want the NEAFL to be a happy medium, allowing him to make that adjustment, but unfortunately most of the defenders he'd get to play against aren't really as big or powerful as AFL players.

Showed no sign of that in his debut games,don't think its easy playing key forward in a bottom team,or in the case of last year,an abysmal one.Think its very much confidence. Peter Schwab was clear this was Daniel's
problem also.You could be right,hopefully not.

 

[pOleK]

Walker dropped a sitter in the square right before half time I think it was, despite doing plenty of good things around the ground.

He also did that horrendous grubber, missing it from inside the goal square