Review Round 20, 2021 - Hawthorn vs. Brisbane Lions

[dlanod]

Anyone interested in putting together a preview against Fremantle please let me know via PM and I'll hold the spot for you.

Otherwise you willingly settle for a less than half-arsed preview from someone who hasn't watching Fremantle play this year.

 

[Svea Rike]

Very disappointed with my beloved Lions. That must have been their worst performance in the last decade. Ok, they
kicked eight goals in the last quarter, but you don't win footy matches on just one quarter's play. There was a lack of
intensity on the ball and in tackles. I have watched the Freo-Richmond game, and Freo's intensity and shear effort was
what the Lions should have been displaying. Their last month has been dire. There is no point in kicking eight goals in the
last quarter (last week too) - I would rather see them doing that in the first quarter, and backing that up over the rest
of the game! I cannot see them being Freo next weekend on this effort; they are going to have to make a massive effort.
The season is on the line.

 

[BangyBangy]

Very disappointed with my beloved Lions. That must have been their worst performance in the last decade. Ok, they
kicked eight goals in the last quarter, but you don't win footy matches on just one quarter's play. There was a lack of
intensity on the ball and in tackles. I have watched the Freo-Richmond game, and Freo's intensity and shear effort was
what the Lions should have been displaying. Their last month has been dire. There is no point in kicking eight goals in the
last quarter (last week too) - I would rather see them doing that in the first quarter, and backing that up over the rest
of the game! I cannot see them being Freo next weekend on this effort; they are going to have to make a massive effort.
The season is on the line.

lololol not even close. Did you see the s**t show against richmond in 2018 at the mcg? C'mon.

 

[BRAB]

lololol not even close. Did you see the sh*t show against richmond in 2018 at the mcg? C'mon.

Adelaide, Collingwood, Port 2x and GWS in 2016 were brutal.

People have forgotten really quickly just how bad we used to be 5 years ago

 

[irish]

Monumental damage , double chance gone . Gave swans and port a huge leg up . The last 4 games could not be worse if we tried. What were they thinking ? So disappointing

 

[Tom14]

How can you be a "vocal critic" of a player who has played 10 games or whatever? Harris Andrews was a useless giraffe for 20 games....going ok these days.

Because I've criticised Payne after the previous 3 games? I think that counts as me being a vocal critic? I'm trying to be realistic about the fact that I probably hold some of his mistakes against him.

Harris' 4th game was the one against Carlton where he took a heap of intercept marks and contested marks. It was miles better than anything Payne has done so far, and Harris was in his first season - Payne is in his 4th.

Jack still has promise and I hope he improves but he's nowhere near Harris' early career.

 

[martinson]

I get why some people are upset because it was a very poor performance for 3 quarters and you could tell from the get go that we just didn't really display a lot of interest .Kingy was onto it after 5 minutes.

I can forgive them because we've been good most of the time for 3 years but if we play like that again then the coaches need to examine how motivated some players are. If they're not doing so already.

It's not battle stations quite yet but we have lost 3 of our last 4 to sides a lot lower than us on the ladder. Which is not a good look.

So we're not as good as we thought we were and need to find our hunger again from somewhere.

For whatever reason we seem really stale , making very poor decisions when giving it off, handballing to guys obviously under the hammer.

The selfless thing seems to have taken away our intuitive freedom. One instance was McStay streaming out of the middle on his preferred where he could've easily nailed it and instead kicked it short to Daniher . It was a great pass but McStay was a 70% chance to kick it and we all know what chance Daniher is from anywhere.

If we were racehorses we'd go out for a 3 week freshen up and a change in training routine.

Off to Perth now so not much hope of a reset this week.

 

[Gadzorks]

Am averaging ten hours a day watching Olympics. These athletes are so mentally tough and capable of managing the 'zone'. Put everything in for twenty years, have a top of the world opportunity and fall short, and they can talk about it five minutes later, own their emotions. Which are disappointment and regret, countered by pride that they left nothing in the table.

Lions players know they are not giving it their best ATM.

When was the last time we had an Olympian involved in preparing our players? We need the pathway to 'die trying' levels of effort.

Edit Santiago Lange is a 59 yo who had 80% of one Lung removed due to cancer in 2015 and is sailing in these Olympics (his seventh). He knows a bit about tenacity. Wonder if he'd like a trip to Brisbane post covid.

 

[PattyKwasagun]

Am averaging ten hours a day watching Olympics. These athletes are so mentally tough and capable of managing the 'zone'. Put everything in for twenty years, have a top of the world opportunity and fall short, and they can talk about it five minutes later, own their emotions. Which are disappointment and regret, countered by pride that they left nothing in the table.

Lions players know they are not giving it their best ATM.

When was the last time we had an Olympian involved in preparing our players? We need the pathway to 'die trying' levels of effort.

The Olympics is an entirely different situation though. It's about priming yourself for a few specific events - qualification initially, and then your event at the Olympics. Essentially, it's 4 years of largely behind the scenes work all leading up to a handful of big moments that you have absolutely primed yourself for.

An AFL season is very different. To be up and at your absolute best for 22 weekends + finals every single year is just about impossible - as is evident in how few teams have been able to even get close to doing it (and why the minor premiers aren't often the premiers too).

Pacing yourself, knowing you only have a finite number of weeks in which you'll be able to give your all, and strategically covering your off-weeks is what's key in a competition like the AFL I think. It's what Richmond have been largely outstanding at from 2017-2020. They had some absolutely shocking losses in each of those seasons (a number in a row too), yet when the big moments arrived they were able to hit top gear.

The only season Richmond were absolutely ruthless all throughout the year was 2018, where they were comfortably minor premiers. Unsurprisingly, they couldn't go on with it that year - they hadn't timed their run well enough and hit a slump when they needed to be peaking.

The form swings within a season are still something so few of us - if any of us - properly grasp I think. I think people in clubland are more across it from the language they use in press conferences. But essentially, barring the very rare outliers of seasons, even the best teams are likely to have 2-4 very disappointing games each season, then probably another 2-4 somewhat disappointing games each season, and then probably another 2-4 just okay performances each season.

That's as many as 12 games a year where supporters of the best teams will walk away somewhat unhappy with their team's performance.

The great teams find a way to win as many of those up to 12 games as possible, even if those wins are a bit dour for supporters. The less great teams drop a bunch of them, and then have to attempt to win from further back.

Interestingly, this was all in the club's rhetoric at the start of the year. Zorks & Fages both spoke on a number of occasions about trying to time their run better this year, and making sure that they were able to play their best footy when it actually counted - something that clearly didn't happen in 2019 & 2020, where our peaks happened too early in the season.

Not that you could for a second argue that what's happening at the moment is part of some great master plan though. Clearly we are quite off-course at the moment, and have lost a top 4 spot because of it. But I do think as a whole as footy supporters we need to learn to accept the reality of form slumps and off-weeks as par for the course in a successful season much better than we traditionally seem to be able to.

 

[MSB ROYS]

Not much comfort really but at least some affirmation that the umpiring was average.

 

[lioninthesand]

Hopefully a better performance against Dockers next week
With Dockers beating Tigers by 4 points we should not be going into that game over confident
Need to be on song early and back to playing 4 solid quarters of footy

Also think we need to make a couple of changes to show spots in side are not guaranteed. Not injury related
Should be easy enough to find a couple who have not performed over the past month
Does not matter at this stage if we get beaten next week with changes. Just need to drop some and reward others
Something needs to change for us to get back on track for finals

I don't think being 'over confident' is even a thing anymore is it?

Not being dramatic but the Dockers a favourites for sure and on form, with back to back travel - us playing exactly as we did yesterday is the most likely outcome.

Dockers have served it up to us at the Gabba when we were going well the last 2 times we met, id say we lose next weekend (on form) by 30+ points.

No way our mids will defend that ground.

 

[spotthedog1]

I found just 3 players to vote for: Rich, McStay and Robbo.

This season, we seem quite happy to cruise against teams not in contention, and it has got us in to trouble a few times. We seem to be off mentally.

At this stage, hopefully we will get a home Elim Final, and then you just have to win 4 in a row. Doable but difficult. Our best is good enough, but it just depends how much we want it, and at the moment I can't see it.

Need to focus on rediscovering some form in the last few rounds (particularly guys like Neale and Cameron). Have a few players we are trying to just get games into which is probably costing us:
- Cockatoo has 4 weeks to get a bit of touch back
- Berry is still working into it, but he's a top 10 player when he gets back to the level
- Payne is still just getting games under his belt
- Madden is just starting to get games under his belt
- Fullerton is just starting to get games under his belt.

Potentially unpopular opinion: Would like the coaches to have a word with Bailey as well - had a great year, but the last 3 or 4 weeks, he will pot-shot from anywhere on the field rather than passing it. Concerned he might be on the bathwater a bit...

 

[spotthedog1]

Oh, and while we definitely lost that game, there was more than a little #freekickhawthorn about it...

 

[T Rick]

Oh, and while we definitely lost that game, there was more than a little #freekickhawthorn about it...

The HTB against Harris early gifted the Hawks their first goal and set the tone for a one-sided quarter - 0-7 frees at one stage. How on earth was that a HTB - he had zero prior opportunity.

 

[jackess]

The HTB against Harris early gifted the Hawks their first goal and set the tone for a one-sided quarter - 0-7 frees at one stage. How on earth was that a HTB - he had zero prior opportunity.

And gift Breust a goal who apparently towelled up Starce despite also kicking another goal when Starce had to cover on another player

 

[Clarkythelion]

Still positive. We are a team that can go deep into the finals with some upsets and against Geelong that was evident. We have some issues that is for sure, it's a mental thing, we can play and we can turn it on but our little red wagon has some wonky wheels now. There were plenty of instances of it but to pick just one - Daniher playing on in front of goal - that shows to me a lack of team first ethos, some arrogance, some lack of professionalism. I'm going to be bold and sau - we have the cattle on the park, we just need to get them to take their brains out there with them.

The group, Coaches, Support staff, Players have a 6 hour transit to WA, they need to do a review and find the mental barriers that are the blockers. We are a 1 qtr or 1 half side, except for the game against Geelong from Melbourne onwards we seem to have these big flat spots where we cant seem to lift. Oh god for a Michael Voss to be there to, the get 2 or 3 hard balls, to kick a long bomb, to burry someone in a tackle. Oh for a Jonathon Brown to run backwards through a pack, take the mark and kick straight to lift the team. Unfortunately we don't have those sort of leaders so we need to find our spark again.

Mix it up, move Harris around during the game, what ever. I'd set some tackling targets for the first Qtr, reward and recognition stuff. Get the team focused on one this only to start game, tackle, tackle, tackle. Then in the second Qtr have another target, 45 degree kicks. Move Charlie to the back pocket for a half. somehow we need to REFRESH without having a week off.

 

[Nunez]

The Olympics is an entirely different situation though. It's about priming yourself for a few specific events - qualification initially, and then your event at the Olympics. Essentially, it's 4 years of largely behind the scenes work all leading up to a handful of big moments that you have absolutely primed yourself for.

An AFL season is very different. To be up and at your absolute best for 22 weekends + finals every single year is just about impossible - as is evident in how few teams have been able to even get close to doing it (and why the minor premiers aren't often the premiers too).

Pacing yourself, knowing you only have a finite number of weeks in which you'll be able to give your all, and strategically covering your off-weeks is what's key in a competition like the AFL I think. It's what Richmond have been largely outstanding at from 2017-2020. They had some absolutely shocking losses in each of those seasons (a number in a row too), yet when the big moments arrived they were able to hit top gear.

The only season Richmond were absolutely ruthless all throughout the year was 2018, where they were comfortably minor premiers. Unsurprisingly, they couldn't go on with it that year - they hadn't timed their run well enough and hit a slump when they needed to be peaking.

The form swings within a season are still something so few of us - if any of us - properly grasp I think. I think people in clubland are more across it from the language they use in press conferences. But essentially, barring the very rare outliers of seasons, even the best teams are likely to have 2-4 very disappointing games each season, then probably another 2-4 somewhat disappointing games each season, and then probably another 2-4 just okay performances each season.

That's as many as 12 games a year where supporters of the best teams will walk away somewhat unhappy with their team's performance.

The great teams find a way to win as many of those up to 12 games as possible, even if those wins are a bit dour for supporters. The less great teams drop a bunch of them, and then have to attempt to win from further back.

Interestingly, this was all in the club's rhetoric at the start of the year. Zorks & Fages both spoke on a number of occasions about trying to time their run better this year, and making sure that they were able to play their best footy when it actually counted - something that clearly didn't happen in 2019 & 2020, where our peaks happened too early in the season.

Not that you could for a second argue that what's happening at the moment is part of some great master plan though. Clearly we are quite off-course at the moment, and have lost a top 4 spot because of it. But I do think as a whole as footy supporters we need to learn to accept the reality of form slumps and off-weeks as par for the course in a successful season much better than we traditionally seem to be able to.

I was thinking about this this morning and it feels like we've gone from peaking too early to waiting for finals to play at our best. We haven't got the balance right and in turn cost ourselves a top four spot.

With that said, if we can find our best form come week one of finals, I think we're better off not having the week off that winning a prelim grants and in a way could see us benefiting from playing all weeks of finals. Not that I think this year is our year anymore, but if the Bulldogs of 2016 can do it, I think the 2021 Lions could do it too. Things need to go your way, but it's not like the talent isn't there, especially if we get Gardiner and Adams back for finals and Cockatoo can stay fit.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Season done. I've been following Brisbane my whole life and these past few weeks have been the worst I have felt supporting this club. Under crazy Vossy or Loopy Leppa we had no expectations so I didn't care that we got flogged week in week out. We were meant to compete this year for the premiership. Now we are making up the numbers. But this embarrassing performance shows thst those whispers I've I've hearing all year and have been getting louder the past month are becoming an issue club wide. Fagan and his cohort need to reasses themselves big time. This season is done. Rabble.

Your post above is by far the most dis-respectful post I have read since joining this forum. Normally I would just say pffftt under my breath and move on but your comments reach a new level of unwarranted & dis-respectful ranting. Shame on you.

 

[Mighty Lions]

Charlie has had a bit going on off the field this year and things compounded with the loss of his grandma this week. It hasn’t been an easy year for him!

It hasn't been an easy year for quite a few. As much as I have sympathy for anyone who loses a family member, he still has a responsibility to his 21 other team mates to put in effort each game. He certainly took his match payment but in my eyes should give it back for the last few weeks.

 

[Nunez]

Your post above is by far the most dis-respectful post I have read since joining this forum. Normally I would just say pffftt under my breath and move on but your comments reach a new level of unwarranted & dis-respectful ranting. Shame on you.

He has been doing this for years. From one moment to the next decides to get a rise out of posters by posting garbage like what you've quoted.

 

[martinson]

Whilst there is some truth in there in some of the posts that tell us why we are good enough to win it I have strong doubts whether we are good enough to turn it on for enough of the game against quality opposition in a big game this year. We haven't proven we're good enough to win a flag so far having won one of the four finals games we've played . All at the Gabba.

We need to get back to the basics of mass tackling and more tackling, extreme defensive pressure from mids and forwards and taking the offensive options aggressively when they're there . We're not doing any well at present.

Just being realistic . I'd be happy if we could try to do the above and win this week. Then worry about the week after.

 

[Macca225]

To me it was just a complete lack of defensive pressure, game plan is built around that and if you don't bring it the rest of the system falls over. Then to compound it we butchered the ball when we had it;

Lyons disposal efficiency of 50% (39.1 % by foot) with 8 turnovers from 38 touches
Zorko disposal efficiency of 51.7% (50% by foot) with 7 turnovers from 29 touches
Neale disposal efficiency of 66.7% (50% by foot) with 6 turnovers from 21 touches

Compared to
Mitchell disposal efficiency of 79.4% (72.2% by foot) with 6 turnovers from 34 touches
O'Meara disposal efficiency of 77.1% (60% by foot) with 4 turnovers from 35 touches
Wingard disposal efficiency of 68.8% (65% by foot) with 4 turnovers from 32 touches

If we can turn up with the effort and intensity to put defensive pressure on I still think we can make a prelim

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

The Olympics is an entirely different situation though. It's about priming yourself for a few specific events - qualification initially, and then your event at the Olympics. Essentially, it's 4 years of largely behind the scenes work all leading up to a handful of big moments that you have absolutely primed yourself for.

An AFL season is very different. To be up and at your absolute best for 22 weekends + finals every single year is just about impossible - as is evident in how few teams have been able to even get close to doing it (and why the minor premiers aren't often the premiers too).

Pacing yourself, knowing you only have a finite number of weeks in which you'll be able to give your all, and strategically covering your off-weeks is what's key in a competition like the AFL I think. It's what Richmond have been largely outstanding at from 2017-2020. They had some absolutely shocking losses in each of those seasons (a number in a row too), yet when the big moments arrived they were able to hit top gear.

The only season Richmond were absolutely ruthless all throughout the year was 2018, where they were comfortably minor premiers. Unsurprisingly, they couldn't go on with it that year - they hadn't timed their run well enough and hit a slump when they needed to be peaking.

The form swings within a season are still something so few of us - if any of us - properly grasp I think. I think people in clubland are more across it from the language they use in press conferences. But essentially, barring the very rare outliers of seasons, even the best teams are likely to have 2-4 very disappointing games each season, then probably another 2-4 somewhat disappointing games each season, and then probably another 2-4 just okay performances each season.

That's as many as 12 games a year where supporters of the best teams will walk away somewhat unhappy with their team's performance.

The great teams find a way to win as many of those up to 12 games as possible, even if those wins are a bit dour for supporters. The less great teams drop a bunch of them, and then have to attempt to win from further back.

Interestingly, this was all in the club's rhetoric at the start of the year. Zorks & Fages both spoke on a number of occasions about trying to time their run better this year, and making sure that they were able to play their best footy when it actually counted - something that clearly didn't happen in 2019 & 2020, where our peaks happened too early in the season.

Not that you could for a second argue that what's happening at the moment is part of some great master plan though. Clearly we are quite off-course at the moment, and have lost a top 4 spot because of it. But I do think as a whole as footy supporters we need to learn to accept the reality of form slumps and off-weeks as par for the course in a successful season much better than we traditionally seem to be able to.

If we are honest our form slump started before we were losing games , so it's been a while.
I'm no coach but have known a few good ones and one in particular has taken a side to an undefeted premiership season.
He spoke about getting the team to peak at the right time.
It was about when you time your peaks with conditioning and training , tweek your plan and manage players within the team.
As you say our form slump is not by design.

To me we have more than a few problems.
Firstly it looks like we have a personal problem in our team or little cohesion , which at this time of the season is quite alarming.
Exposed by Hippy's, Gardiner's, Adams absence.
We not only do we need to up our intensity to finals pressure, we also have to start playing like a team.
It's been coming for a while .
If I had to put my finger on it , it would be how Danniher and Charlie work together or not, and having Neale being injured is hurting us at he coal face.

Secondly most importantlyour gameplan doesn't prioritize spread and move to space when we have the footy . But When we do we look like a totally diferent beast.
Unfortunately we concentrate more on open space when they have the ball, go figure , how about shutting the ball down , tackle.
Lets just let them kick it into their 50.
bombing it down the line or inside 50 is only good for part of your game , not your complete game.
Even Dermie has worked that one out.
Time to tweek our plan or change it cause this year is a bust anyway.

 

[jackess]

If we are honest our form slump started before we were losing games , so it's been a while.
I'm no coach but have known a few good ones and one in particular has taken a side to an undefeted premiership season.
He spoke about getting the team to peak at the right time.
It was about when you time your peaks with conditioning and training , tweek your plan and manage players within the team.
As you say our form slump is not by design.

To me we have more than a few problems.
Firstly it looks like we have a personal problem in our team or little cohesion , which at this time of the season is quite alarming.
Exposed by Hippy's, Gardiner's, Adams absence.
We not only do we need to up our intensity to finals pressure, we also have to start playing like a team.
It's been coming for a while .
If I had to put my finger on it , it would be how Danniher and Charlie work together or not, and having Neale being injured is hurting us at he coal face.

Secondly most importantlyour gameplan doesn't prioritize spread and move to space when we have the footy . But When we do we look like a totally diferent beast.
Unfortunately we concentrate more on open space when they have the ball, go figure , how about shutting the ball down , tackle.
Lets just let them kick it into their 50.
bombing it down the line or inside 50 is only good for part of your game , not your complete game.
Even Dermie has worked that one out.
Time to tweek our plan or change it cause this year is a bust anyway.

Bombing it down the line isnt our preferred method of ball movement it comes as a result of us being slowed down because we get pressured or don't run hard enough. Or guys like Birchall turning it over.

It's not like we have free players in the corridor and decide to bomb it to a pack.

It's just a backup plan and it helped us go from conceding 20 goals a game under Leppa to being a good defensive team.

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

Bombing it down the line isnt our preferred method of ball movement it comes as a result of us being slowed down because we get pressured or don't run hard enough. Or guys like Birchall turning it over.

It's not like we have free players in the corridor and decide to bomb it to a pack.

It's just a backup plan and it helped us go from conceding 20 goals a game under Leppa to being a good defensive team.

I don't know how many times I've seen our players ignore a player presenting , only to go the bomb .
We play the teritory game , but it's evident against sides that can use the footy more eficiently we are not up to it and play into ( literaly) their hands.
The alarming thing is these sides are not neccesarilly top eight sides.

 

[Jimmy Two Hands]

Just the eye-test but Big O and Lachie dont seem to have much chemistry at the bounces. Stef and Lachie seem to have set plays and be on the same page.