Autopsy Round 20, 2021: St.Kilda v Carlton

[Shell]

So my son was born the day before the port game so I’ll rite that off. West coast and Carlton since then…

not to sure how I’ll retain him as a Saint when his uncle and mother in law will be coming hard with dogs and pies gear and we’re putting THAT on the park.

/sorry to intrude
Let the kid choose his own team with no influence from anyone.
/thats what my parents did + am a firm believer in it.

 

[SaintBilly]

No Ryder no Saints.
Simple.

Sorry but that’s just plain wrong. Ryder is not the barometer of the club. Very simplistic view there.

 

[stavro#4]

Issue is we judge him on being a former pick 3 & one of our highest paid players. Forget about what pick he was taken, reduce his salary to 400k & lower expectations. I’ll be fuming if he gets a sizeable contract. He’s not in our dozen most important players. Definitely expendable but I wouldn’t give him away.

Do you honestly think a guy is 700-750k is going to drop his salary to 400k??

I don’t judge anyone on picks. I judge them on salary. If he can’t perform like a top tier paid player - then they deserve criticism. Just like anyone else in any other industry.

 

[SaintBilly]

/sorry to intrude
Let the kid choose his own team with no influence from anyone.
/thats what my parents did + am a firm believer in it.

I agree with this. My youngest is a Carlton supporter coz of my partner but he actually hates football. Both my kids do.

I’m glad my mum stepped in and prevented me from being an Essendon supporter. That would have been awful. Good during school but not as character building.

also I’d be an Essendon supporter. Gross.

 

[Bill Mohr]

Another positive from last night was Max King's continued good form, he had a great first quarter kicking 3 goals but then with him being our only dangerous forward they were able to shut him down and he only kicked one goal after that.

We badly need another dangerous forward marking target to help take the heat off him, if we could get his brother we'd be just about unstoppable.

Sharman looks like he could be a handy foil for him too as a third tall marking option.



We don't deserve to be in the 8 with the way we've played this year, even if we won last night and snuck into 8th spot it would have only been temporary with us likely to lose against Sydney and Geelong in the next 2 weeks. In reality we were better off losing last night to get better draft picks.

Thats the annoying part, a full forward at the top of his game and he was hung out to dry after quarter time. This is a coaching problem although people keep denying it. Midfield set up was all wrong, Silvagni should have been stopped. As usual some of the saints players play their best football after the game is dusted, Ross is one. When the game is up for grabs , you dont see him, once it is out of reach he seems to fight tooth and nail for the ball....too late. Backline set up seemed odd as well, ball delivery was so easy into their forward line that their shots at goal seem to be only 30-40 m out. Blues all ran forward of the ball and a couple of times 2-3 of them were on their own 30 m out. Our backline players probably had 10 marks between them WTF and I cant recall too may intercept marks unlike down the other end. Coaching was poor IMO as was most of our playing performance. Forget the injuries, the question has to be asked WHY did this happen? All of us experts know but do the coaching group know?

 

[Shell]

I agree with this. My youngest is a Carlton supporter coz of my partner but he actually hates football. Both my kids do.

I’m glad my mum stepped in and prevented me from being an Essendon supporter. That would have been awful. Good during school but not as character building.

also I’d be an Essendon supporter. Gross.

My Mum - Geelong, Dad - Essendon. Neither of them couldn't have cared less who we went for. The 1989 GF, all my mum wanted was us kids out of the house so she could watch it in peace. (i dont think that happened)

Then fast fwd to 1993, Ablett v Essendon and i was a goner.

And agree with you re. bolded. Dodged a massive bullet on that one.

 

[triggering bro]

Do you honestly think a guy is 700-750k is going to drop his salary to 400k??

I don’t judge anyone on picks. I judge them on salary. If he can’t perform like a top tier paid player - then they deserve criticism. Just like anyone else in any other industry.

No idea what he is currently being offered however it must not be that much given he has shopped himself. If the club give him more than 500 tops we should fold.

 

[Plugger35]

I agree with this. My youngest is a Carlton supporter coz of my partner but he actually hates football. Both my kids do.

I’m glad my mum stepped in and prevented me from being an Essendon supporter. That would have been awful. Good during school but not as character building.

also I’d be an Essendon supporter. Gross.

My sister is trying to brainwash my nephew into being a West Coast supporter, he is only 4 though and is too young to know anything about football so he might choose another team once he gets older. I'll try to talk him into being a Saints supporter when he's old enough but it will be a hard sell.

 

[PoppedCorn]

 

[Diehard Saint]

Concussion. Jaw fine according to Ratts presser

Well I suppose that’s “good”?
Poor kid can’t catch a break. ( in a manner of speaking )

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

If I were coach, they’d already be on the 7th viewing of last nights match
View attachment 1191958

Lock them in a room with an empty book and a pen. They don't come out until they've filled it with things they need to improve on

 

[Plugger35]

Lock them in a room with an empty book and a pen. They don't come out until they've filled it with things they need to improve on

Some of them might need a couple of books.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Lock them in a room with an empty book and a pen. They don't come out until they've filled it with things they need to improve on

A single book? It’d be thiccer than the LOTR set

 

[Diehard Saint]

We’ve been incredibly inconsistent & poor all year. I’m not willing to write off the players (well maybe some) or even the coach on the back of a season from hell. Paton & Gresham massive outs. Marshall & Ryder have been in & out of the side due to injuries. Clark & Jones have missed plenty of footy. Need to reset & hope for better luck on the injury front. In terms of needs, would love to see us trade in a ready made replacement for Ryder & play Marshall more forward to support King. Also need a decent & more reliable tall back to support Howard. I reckon our midfield isn’t too bad when they are all on the park. Billings clearly expendable even just to get back into the second round of the draft. Byrnes looks like being a gun. When he puts on a bit more weight he will be strolling out of the centre bounces with the footy under his arm. This year is a write off. Do everything to get a top 5 pick & invest in the best inside-outside mid available - tank. 2022 a massive year for Ratten.

Very good post.

Next year should tell us a lot and that will coincide with Ratts’ last year of contract, which is handy.
We all know which players need to go, we’ve discussed that ad nauseum
Doubt Billings, Ross and Dunstan will all go and I’d prefer it to be Billings only because we’d get a better return for him.

Our trading and drafting has to be absolutely spot on this year and then we need a damn tough pre-season based on reports of last years.

Fewer injuries ( hopefully) and a better draw will give us a much better idea of where we are at. And if we need to dump the coach at that stage, so be it.

 

[ScrappyDo]

I don’t totally disagree however I believe it depends on the individual. If they each retain influence over the group, are unwilling to remove their influence &/or the other players rely on their influence then consider moving them on. If their influence can be harnessed then at the very worst they are decent depth.

I tend to think having senior players who can't execute basic skills, sh1t themselves under pressure and too often pick and choose when to go is a subversive influence that acts as a fog or just dead weight on the remainder of the group.
It's ok with guys like Smack because they are outside the core team or developing group (almost contractors if you will), but it's not ok that we're having this debate about 3 out of 4 of our longest serving Sainters.
I mean FMD, could you imagine Tigs supporters having this conversation with Cotchin, Jroo and Grimes, or even Norff supporters with Cunners, Goldy and Ziebell?
I'm actually at the point where I'd select Dmac and Byrnes ahead of Billings because they go hard and have an effect.
Who would you rather have a set shot 35m out? That kind of says it all for me..

 

[jwikked]

/sorry to intrude
Let the kid choose his own team with no influence from anyone.
/thats what my parents did + am a firm believer in it.

Dunno. My Nan has the same opinion as you do, and as a result I ended up a St Kilda supporter instead of a Hawthorn supporter.
All she had to do was buy me a hawks plush doll damn it.
My eventual early death from heart induced trauma as a result of following St Kilda will rightfully be blamed on her.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I'm actually at the point where I'd select Dmac and Byrnes ahead of Billings because they go hard and have an effect.
Who would you rather have a set shot 35m out? That kind of says it all for me..

Been there for a while already. What took you so long?

 

[kernelT]

I’m not overly fussed about moving those blokes on. However, there needs to be a clear message sent to those blokes about where they are on the pecking order. Get them out of the leadership group & shave a decent portion off their contracts (400k pa). I also hope they are told during pre season that they are 15-22 players fighting for selection. Their importance to our fortunes is not in the same stratosphere as Marshall, Ryder, King, Steele, Jones, Crouch, Wilkie, Paton, etc.

Ross is a bit likes Newnes though, he almost needs to be moved off the list in order to stop playing him… very hard for the coaches to drop these blokes who have been stalwarts and winning best and fairests, must be some club dymanics thing.

I don't imagine any 3 of billings, Ross & Dunstan would stay if you put it to them they'd be fighting for a spot in the 22.

Not sold on Ratts selection integrity, not playing Carlisle when we've desperately needed him, Dean Kent FMD if he plays again next week I'll spew up, no way he should have been in the side last night. The Battle dropping was gob smacking, why did Coffield go out with Sincalir getting injured, Hunter playing as a second ruckmen against a side with a ruckmen who hasn't cracked 20 games yet. Moronic stuff.

 

[Plugger35]

Dunno. My Nan has the same opinion as you do, and as a result I ended up a St Kilda supporter instead of a Hawthorn supporter.
All she had to do was buy me a hawks plush doll damn it.
My eventual early death from heart induced trauma as a result of following St Kilda will rightfully be blamed on her.

I followed the Hawks as a kid as I was a Subiaco supporter in the WAFL and our best player Gary Buckenara was recruited by them, I switched to supporting the Saints when the AFL started up as Plugger was my favourite player then.

Fair to say that decision to switch teams has cost me a fair bit of premiership success, the Saints have a lot of catching up to do to make up for it.

 

[St Neil]

I would use him in a trade for Ben King

But would Gold Coast?

 

[Mowman]

I would use him in a trade for Ben King

why would GC do it ?

 

[St Neil]

why would GC do it ?

The only possible reason would be if Bing had an exit clause in his contract and there was a legal obligation to complete a trade.

 

[SaintBilly]

Been there for a while already. What took you so long?

In all seriousness: the first half of the season. He was solid, one of our better players but as soon as he went missing that was it. Remember how Kingy or Grincampaigner (can never remember his real name - the other one on first crack) we’re saying we should trade him for a late second rounder and we were all jumping up and down? Would take that in a heartbeat.

Just an aside, it would be the most St Kilda thing ever if he went to say bulldogs and became a gun. Then they’d have bont AND billings.

matter of fact if that does happen I’ll just give up on the sport altogether lol

 

[Plugger35]

In all seriousness: the first half of the season. He was solid, one of our better players but as soon as he went missing that was it. Remember how Kingy or Grincampaigner (can never remember his real name - the other one on first crack) we’re saying we should trade him for a late second rounder and we were all jumping up and down? Would take that in a heartbeat.

Just an aside, it would be the most St Kilda thing ever if he went to say bulldogs and became a gun. Then they’d have bont AND billings.

matter of fact if that does happen I’ll just give up on the sport altogether lol

Billings would struggle to get a game for the Dogs with the form he's in at the moment.

Billings form was good earlier in the season but has dropped off big time, I'm assuming he's carrying a foot injury, last night his first kick was a shocker which may have been from getting a jab in his foot to numb it.

If he is carrying an injury then he should be rested for the rest of the season now that finals are out of reach.

 

[prophetic1]

/sorry to intrude
Let the kid choose his own team with no influence from anyone.
/thats what my parents did + am a firm believer in it.

It happens the way it happens IMO....its ok any which way....yeah sometimes the kid will choose, sometimes its absolute dogma of the family sometimes its a relentless bribing uncle......its one area pc shouldn't be aloud to flourish or rear its sometimes ugly head!. Its footy and its passion the wrong way can be the right way!