Autopsy Round 20, 2022: Hawthorn leave it late against the Aints

[HODGEYROAD]

We played a hell of a lot shitter than the last few weeks and it wasn’t to do with Saints’ pressure. They were s**t too

They did smack us around the contested ball when the heat was on in the first half.

Unimpressive way to close out the game from them though, even if I didn't think we were ever really going to get over the line.

 

[KermitJagger]

They did smack us around the contested ball when the heat was on in the first half.

Unimpressive way to close out the game from them though, even if I didn't think we were ever really going to get over the line.

Didn't we just beat Adelaide, who beat Carlton convincingly?

I'm not sure it's as clear cut as your post before this. If you just went by our form against the Top 4 this year you'd assume we were one of the better sides in it considering we've beaten 2 of em and lost by a total of 14 points to the other two.

Edit: just checked and realised Brisbane had dropped to 5th, point still stands.

 

[Pinoy Hawk]

Regarding the coaches votes, I don't know the stats but I read we got belted in contested possessions. If Mitch gave him votes, it may have been because he led us in contested possessions which was a reported focus for us going into the game.

Tom got 10 Contested Possessions.

Jai and JOM got 11 each.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Didn't we just beat Adelaide, who beat Carlton convincingly?

I'm not sure it's as clear cut as your post before this. If you just went by our form against the Top 4 this year you'd assume we were one of the better sides in it considering we've beaten 2 of em and lost by a total of 14 points to the other two.

Edit: just checked and realised Brisbane had dropped to 5th, point still stands.

All all all bottom 6 is just what we are though, 19 game sample size and we've won 7. It's fine though as we're a relatively young team, hopefully we can continue to grow and be better than teams like the Saints by 2024.

 

[KermitJagger]

All all all bottom 6 is just what we are though, 19 game sample size and we've won 7. It's fine though as we're a relatively young team, hopefully we can continue to grow and be better than teams like the Saints by 2024.

Not arguing we're below or above where we should be, just saying that a single team we beat or don't beat doesn't reflect that. We've beaten Brisbane 3 times out of the last 5, and lost our last 5 to the Saints. Doesn't make us worse than we are or the Saints better.

 

[KermitJagger]

Gave myself some time to watch this game back last night, we didn't lose this because the Saints were the better team, we lost it because they wanted the win more. Some of the moments in the first half watching players just lacking any urgency, not applying any pressure. Especially in defence where we're normally at our best. On the other side the saints were hunting us, especially in the forward 50.

We're such a great defensive side aerially, that as soon as the ball hit the deck that lack of urgency meant the Saints were able to lay 24 tackles inside their forward 50. That's almost 2 and a half times their season average. They were intense around the ball and beating us in general play because we just weren't as committed to the contest as they were early.

It was something noticeable that we didn't necessarily get hurt by in the game against North, the signs were there. Sicily lazily going for balls one handed, holding on to the ball too long, trying to do too much. When it clicked in the second half I felt it obvious that we were more skilful, but that hunger needed to be there from the first minute.

Unfortunately I think playing against clubs like North are just bad preparation.

Rd 3 - Brisbane flog North
Rd 4 - Brisbane lose to Geelong
Rd 5 - Bulldogs flog North
Rd 6 - Bulldogs lose to Adelaide, Geelong flog North
Rd 7 - Geelong lose to Freo at home
Rd 8 - Freo flog North
Rd 9 - Freo get flogged by the Suns, and Port flog North
Rd 10 - Port get beaten by Geelong, Melbourne flog North
Rd 11 - Melbourne get beaten by Freo

In fact, most teams that have beaten Norf convincingly have lost the next round. It generally fits with my feelings about watching us back in our threepeat, dominant wins against crap opposition often seemed to be followed by unexpected losses.

 

[TylerDurden]

The umpiring also kills momentum. Especially when they don't get paid to us.
Then we the umpiring went in our favour, so did the momentum.
You see our players heads drop when they don't get rewarded. Same with most teams really.
When the game was hot in the first half, the umps reamed us in this game.

 

[TheFourPillars]

The umpiring also kills momentum. Especially when they don't get paid to us.
Then we the umpiring went in our favour, so did the momentum.
You see our players heads drop when they don't get rewarded. Same with most teams really.
When the game was hot in the first half, the umps reamed us in this game.

Lol mate ure looking at it all wrong with regards to the umpires we were getting flogged in the first half they had more of the ball and could have been 10 to 12 goals up they got some decisions on the back of them winning the ball. Same thing happened for us in the last qtr

 

[Stratton24]

Lol mate ure looking at it all wrong with regards to the umpires we were getting flogged in the first half they had more of the ball and could have been 10 to 12 goals up they got some decisions on the back of them winning the ball. Same thing happened for us in the last qtr

TD is spot on

 

[KermitJagger]

TD is spot on

Not really, it's a cop out. The umpires are outside of your control, it's best to think of them like the weather. The Saints went at an intensity we didn't want to match - not necessarily that we couldn't. The frees certainly don't help but, like I said, they're not in your control - and we got pinged for things that certainly were in our control like the 6-6-6 infringement.

 

[TheFourPillars]

TD is spot on

Umpires mate they control everything why show up. There is no point the game has been pre destined. Its funny because its all two St Kilda supporters on the way home on the train could talk about for 40 minutes. Not one word about the two teams that actually played

 

[CHUBBSS]

H

Gave myself some time to watch this game back last night, we didn't lose this because the Saints were the better team, we lost it because they wanted the win more. Some of the moments in the first half watching players just lacking any urgency, not applying any pressure. Especially in defence where we're normally at our best. On the other side the saints were hunting us, especially in the forward 50.

We're such a great defensive side aerially, that as soon as the ball hit the deck that lack of urgency meant the Saints were able to lay 24 tackles inside their forward 50. That's almost 2 and a half times their season average. They were intense around the ball and beating us in general play because we just weren't as committed to the contest as they were early.

It was something noticeable that we didn't necessarily get hurt by in the game against North, the signs were there. Sicily lazily going for balls one handed, holding on to the ball too long, trying to do too much. When it clicked in the second half I felt it obvious that we were more skilful, but that hunger needed to be there from the first minute.

Unfortunately I think playing against clubs like North are just bad preparation.

Rd 3 - Brisbane flog North
Rd 4 - Brisbane lose to Geelong
Rd 5 - Bulldogs flog North
Rd 6 - Bulldogs lose to Adelaide, Geelong flog North
Rd 7 - Geelong lose to Freo at home
Rd 8 - Freo flog North
Rd 9 - Freo get flogged by the Suns, and Port flog North
Rd 10 - Port get beaten by Geelong, Melbourne flog North
Rd 11 - Melbourne get beaten by Freo

In fact, most teams that have beaten Norf convincingly have lost the next round. It generally fits with my feelings about watching us back in our threepeat, dominant wins against crap opposition often seemed to be followed by unexpected losses.

How bizarre but makes sense

 

[TheFourPillars]

Gave myself some time to watch this game back last night, we didn't lose this because the Saints were the better team, we lost it because they wanted the win more. Some of the moments in the first half watching players just lacking any urgency, not applying any pressure. Especially in defence where we're normally at our best. On the other side the saints were hunting us, especially in the forward 50.

We're such a great defensive side aerially, that as soon as the ball hit the deck that lack of urgency meant the Saints were able to lay 24 tackles inside their forward 50. That's almost 2 and a half times their season average. They were intense around the ball and beating us in general play because we just weren't as committed to the contest as they were early.

It was something noticeable that we didn't necessarily get hurt by in the game against North, the signs were there. Sicily lazily going for balls one handed, holding on to the ball too long, trying to do too much. When it clicked in the second half I felt it obvious that we were more skilful, but that hunger needed to be there from the first minute.

Unfortunately I think playing against clubs like North are just bad preparation.

Rd 3 - Brisbane flog North
Rd 4 - Brisbane lose to Geelong
Rd 5 - Bulldogs flog North
Rd 6 - Bulldogs lose to Adelaide, Geelong flog North
Rd 7 - Geelong lose to Freo at home
Rd 8 - Freo flog North
Rd 9 - Freo get flogged by the Suns, and Port flog North
Rd 10 - Port get beaten by Geelong, Melbourne flog North
Rd 11 - Melbourne get beaten by Freo

In fact, most teams that have beaten Norf convincingly have lost the next round. It generally fits with my feelings about watching us back in our threepeat, dominant wins against crap opposition often seemed to be followed by unexpected losses.

They certainly came with the heat this week. The pressure on the ball carrier in that first half from them was elite

 

[Stratton24]

Umpires mate they control everything why show up. There is no point the game has been pre destined. Its funny because its all two St Kilda supporters on the way home on the train could talk about for 40 minutes. Not one word about the two teams that actually played

Yes they killed us in the first half and then evened it up in the second half meaning both teams had something to complain about.

 

[hawkman]

ML’s knee issue was weird this game - clearly been carrying it most of the year and it re-aggros every time he lands on that knee (when sliding for a mark)

Think it was the second qtr he hurt it - I was watching him limp around pretty much for two whole quarters - guessing the trainer/physio whatever said try and play through it.

Doesn’t seem to marry up with a longer term issue but more a pain management thing.

Still though 110% err on the side of caution and give him the rest of the season off I reckon

Happened when he kicked a point out of the ruck in the 1st. So halfway through the 1st

 

[TheFourPillars]

Yes they killed us in the first half and then evened it up in the second half meaning both teams had something to complain about.

But don't you see we put up a better fight in the second half and got the better of them in the last. The performance dictated the free kicks and not the other way around.

 

[H00t]

Gave myself some time to watch this game back last night, we didn't lose this because the Saints were the better team, we lost it because they wanted the win more. Some of the moments in the first half watching players just lacking any urgency, not applying any pressure. Especially in defence where we're normally at our best. On the other side the saints were hunting us, especially in the forward 50.

We're such a great defensive side aerially, that as soon as the ball hit the deck that lack of urgency meant the Saints were able to lay 24 tackles inside their forward 50. That's almost 2 and a half times their season average. They were intense around the ball and beating us in general play because we just weren't as committed to the contest as they were early.

It was something noticeable that we didn't necessarily get hurt by in the game against North, the signs were there. Sicily lazily going for balls one handed, holding on to the ball too long, trying to do too much. When it clicked in the second half I felt it obvious that we were more skilful, but that hunger needed to be there from the first minute.

Unfortunately I think playing against clubs like North are just bad preparation.

Rd 3 - Brisbane flog North
Rd 4 - Brisbane lose to Geelong
Rd 5 - Bulldogs flog North
Rd 6 - Bulldogs lose to Adelaide, Geelong flog North
Rd 7 - Geelong lose to Freo at home
Rd 8 - Freo flog North
Rd 9 - Freo get flogged by the Suns, and Port flog North
Rd 10 - Port get beaten by Geelong, Melbourne flog North
Rd 11 - Melbourne get beaten by Freo

In fact, most teams that have beaten Norf convincingly have lost the next round. It generally fits with my feelings about watching us back in our threepeat, dominant wins against crap opposition often seemed to be followed by unexpected losses.

I’ve noticed it as well in the past. I’ve always just put it down the bad habits that get picked up while thrashing a bad team.

Running ahead of the contest, expecting to win the ball and when you do lose it the opposition will turn it over quickly so no need to defend as tightly.

2015 sticks out in my mind. Smashed Freo and Sydney but both still played well we were just unstoppable. But then we had the blues next week who where woeful and then got beat by the tigers because we didn’t show up. Just expected the easy win.

 

[H00t]

But don't you see we put up a better fight in the second half and got the better of them in the last. The performance dictated the free kicks and not the other way around.

Umpires are only human. And the best way I’ve noticed to get frees is have all the momentum because the umpires get sucked into it.

It’s like an lbw appeal on a hat trick. It’s going the bowlers way more often than not.

 

[Stratton24]

But don't you see we put up a better fight in the second half and got the better of them in the last. The performance dictated the free kicks and not the other way around.

dropping the ball is dropping the ball, does not matter how well you are playing, same tackle should be umpired the same if you are 10 goals down or 10 goals up

 

[TheFourPillars]

dropping the ball is dropping the ball, does not matter how well you are playing, same tackle should be umpired the same if you are 10 goals down or 10 goals up

yeah yeah yeah but we had similar situations in the first half that weren't paid as well. The umpires are not going to get every decision right. I don't think ppl know how to deal with that. Its not the umpires that caused us to lose the contested ball by 30 to half time we were dominated

 

[Stratton24]

yeah yeah yeah but we had similar situations in the first half that weren't paid as well. The umpires are not going to get every decision right. I don't think ppl know how to deal with that. Its not the umpires that caused us to lose the contested ball by 30 to half time we were dominated

Umpires just like teams have shockers

 

[hawkman]

But don't you see we put up a better fight in the second half and got the better of them in the last. The performance dictated the free kicks and not the other way around.

We were mauled in the 1st quarter, when the game was still close. 2nd and 3rd quarters they had no influence and that is where St Kilda smashed us, it had nothing to do with the umpires. Got a good run in the last from us

Umpires probably were about 20th on the list of reasons that impacted the result

 

[TheFourPillars]

Umpires just like teams have shockers

They seem to have shockers every week its something you can not control and therefore do not have an effect on the result. The Adelaide game is the perfect example. Carlton according to a lot of neutral observers including their own supporters got an arm chair ride and yet lost the game convincingly

 

[Stratton24]

They seem to have shockers every week its something you can not control and therefore do not have an effect on the result. The Adelaide game is the perfect example. Carlton according to a lot of neutral observers including their own supporters got an arm chair ride and yet lost the game convincingly

Umpires can have a massive effect on the result, they won the Dogs the 2016 Flag. I hate Sydney and wanted them to get thrashed in that GF and was happy with the result but they got smashed by the umps in that game.

 

[burner1]

I didn’t hear anyone complain about the umpires in the first quarter vs north where we got a dream run that lead to the game winning lead. Or against the crows etc.

Managing changes in momentum is now critically important. Sometimes it’s from good play, sometimes umpire assisting or sometime enhanced by the umps (the team on too often gets a good run).