Review Round 20, 2023 - Gold Coast vs. Brisbane Lions

[BangyBangy]

Touk would be one of the best in the comp for repeated sprints. Doesn't fatigue.

I think you're exaggerating .

 

[McIvor]

That's why personally I give Bez a pass on most of his poorer games, he spends a hell of a lot of energy running hard defensively. Ditto Dev who is almost a perfect defensive mid role player for us IMO. Decent size, wants to tackle, good tank and is bloody quick.

Maybe Fages and the coaching team are too nice to our players who don't run defensively as hard or harder as they do offensively. If I was a coach I would absolutely drop players who don't push back hard on defence regardless of their talent for less talented players that do. I'm not saying I want us, or any other team to adopt the Ross Lyon approach but when we are down, we don't run back. Lachie as our captain must be setting the standard otherwise what kind of leader is he?

Fagan hasn’t once made a statement in his old tenure and dropped a name player; it’s the same small group of players that get dropped and are held to a different standard than the ones that consistently underperform and don’t chase or are lazy etc. who can be called “pets” so is it any wonder that the pets don’t need to put in 100% and can literally pick and choose when they feel like performing. No wonder the club has so many issues that it refuses to acknowledge or address.

 

[Squizz89]

Fagan hasn’t once made a statement in his old tenure and dropped a name player; it’s the same small group of players that get dropped and are held to a different standard than the ones that consistently underperform and don’t chase or are lazy etc. who can be called “pets” so is it any wonder that the pets don’t need to put in 100% and can literally pick and choose when they feel like performing. No wonder the club has so many issues that it refuses to acknowledge or address.

To be fair to Fages he did end up dropping Lyons last year, albeit about 18 rounds to late.

He also dropped Rich & Gunston this year, again about 10 rounds to late, and in Jack's case he should probably be again.

 

[M Malice]

Dom and Fish had some similar thoughts to a lot on here as to what we did wrong against the Suns and what we should do going forward.

1- Give Rayner a defined role eg. 3rd tall fwd.
2- We were shown up for lack of run... a worrying trend.
3- Move away from players who have been exposed, mentioned Gunston, Rich, Lyons. Said a big test at selection this week.
4- Fagan is open to criticism, Dom and Fish still have faith in him but said if we bomb out badly in finals this year tough decisions will be ahead.

 

[p4p1]

Fagan hasn’t once made a statement in his old tenure and dropped a name player; it’s the same small group of players that get dropped and are held to a different standard than the ones that consistently underperform and don’t chase or are lazy etc. who can be called “pets” so is it any wonder that the pets don’t need to put in 100% and can literally pick and choose when they feel like performing. No wonder the club has so many issues that it refuses to acknowledge or address.

I think we all have blind spots. Fagan is no different. In Fagan's case I think his blind spot is smart footballers. Without going through them, all the guys who we have persisted with too long have been fairly intelligent footballers, Lyons, Gunston, Birchall.
I do agree that at times we have mismanaged Cam Rayner as well. He should have been dropped at times, a run in the VFL as the main marking target or predominantly in the midfield could have been really useful for him in the past when he was really struggling for form.
Fages and co back our players to play themselves back into form, which is probably the right call more often than not. The die hard Fages defenders on the board that say he and the coaching staff always pick the best team etc overlook the human element of coaching IMO. I couldn't see our coaching staff ever making the same call that Sheedy did in 1993 GF and dropping someone who had played every game, regardless of form. I don't know if it is a bad thing that our coaches are unlikely to make a similar call, just as I am not sure if it was the right call from Sheedy, though the GF result may be proof that it was.
Part of the problem with Fagan's 'pets' is that they are for the most part the most talented players on our list, outside of a couple. Some of these guys absolutely should be immediate selection. But when we have off days and players don't run and chase, things you can do even when you are having an off day and things aren't working, a message needs to be sent that it is unacceptable.
Of our 6 losses this year, 3 have been due to completely unacceptable effort on the players part (Port, Hawthorn and GC), 2 of those teams being ones we should have easily accounted for. We should have won against the bulldogs but again, our effort wasn't good enough, though not as bad as the 3 losses mentioned earlier, I would say the same for the Adelaide game as well as inaccuracy but we weren't able to keep the foot down during the 4th quarter either IIRC. We just completely imploded in the Melbourne game, that was in part due to individual brilliance from Gawn and Petracca, poor late game coaching and poor late game awareness from the players. We should be 16-3 and looking to solidify our top 2 finish right now. I don't think by any means we are out of it this year, we will find form again, I am sure of it. We just need more run, we will miss Ashcroft but it shouldn't break our season either, we just have to find that run elsewhere and not try to replace him with players who can't cover the spread.

 

[McIvor]

Dom and Fish had some similar thoughts to a lot on here as to what we did wrong against the Suns and what we should do going forward.

1- Give Rayner a defined role eg. 3rd tall fwd.
2- We were shown up for lack of run... a worrying trend.
3- Move away from players who have been exposed, mentioned Gunston, Rich, Lyons. Said a big test at selection this week.
4- Fagan is open to criticism, Dom and Fish still have faith in him but said if we bomb out badly in finals this year tough decisions will be ahead.

I didn’t realise listening to it that it’s now a joint Suns / Lions podcast such as the level of discussion about them most weeks.

At least they both acknowledged how good Lester was last weekend.

 

[McIvor]

To be fair to Fages he did end up dropping Lyons last year, albeit about 18 rounds to late.

He also dropped Rich & Gunston this year, again about 10 rounds to late, and in Jack's case he should probably be again.

Rich and Gunston weren’t dropped though, they were managed and were unavailable for selection in the reserves.

I’ve never said Lyons hasn’t been dropped but like you said, he only was after he could barely walk and even then it was the wrong call to play him the week after in the reserves which I think after that he was out for the year.

 

[Dalions]

I didn’t realise listening to it that it’s now a joint Suns / Lions podcast such as the level of discussion about them most weeks.

At least they both acknowledged how good Lester was last weekend.

We did actually play the Suns

 

[Dalions]

I’ve never said Lyons hasn’t been dropped but like you said, he only was after he could barely walk and even then it was the wrong call to play him the week after in the reserves which I think after that he was out for the year.

I would say that was his call to try and prove his fitness in a bid to play finals.
But the fact that he could barely kick the ball 30m sealed his fate. Along with the inability to run.

 

[briztoon]

In an interview a week or two after, Fagan was pretty clear that Rich and Gunston were dropped due to form.

 

[Pride of lions]

Purple reporting on footy classified that the AFL is going to have another look at the Zorko - Miller nut crunch, I hope the little grub gets a couple, potential to cause serious injury and all that.

It looks like this has just been allowed to be swept under the carpet by the AFL. What a surprise!

 

[Maboo]

It looks like this has just been allowed to be swept under the carpet by the AFL. What a surprise!

John Ralph is reporting that the AFL Is going to interview Zorko, so maybe not.

 

[Nunez]

I didn’t realise listening to it that it’s now a joint Suns / Lions podcast such as the level of discussion about them most weeks.

At least they both acknowledged how good Lester was last weekend.

You really do look for anything to be hyper critical about don't to. Bizarre way of being.

 

[McIvor]

You really do look for anything to be hyper critical about don't to. Bizarre way of being.

Not really, just don’t understand why the Suns always get a run on a Lions podcast and I get we played them but for Fish to bang on about them as long as he did in addition to most weeks I find odd. I couldn’t care less about them and if I wanted content about other teams I’d listen to a general afl podcast.

 

[BRAB]

Not really, just don’t understand why the Suns always get a run on a Lions podcast and I get we played them but for Fish to bang on about them as long as he did in addition to most weeks I find odd. I couldn’t care less about them and if I wanted content about other teams I’d listen to a general afl podcast.

Maybe I’ve got a selective memory from all the paint thinner I huff but I honestly don’t remember whiting talking about the suns that much on the podcast this year.

 

[Nunez]

Maybe I’ve got a selective memory from all the paint thinner I huff but I honestly don’t remember whiting talking about the suns that much on the podcast this year.

Outside of previews and reviews of lions v Suns games, he's only spoken about them RE Dew getting sacked which was a big news story and something listeners were keen to hear about a day in the life of a journo when something like that happens.

But I was also huffing fumes so who knows.

 

[The Kings Ransom]

What’s the podcast called?
Wouldn’t mind a listen

 

[Southern Sun]

I come in peace but wondering how you guys actually feel about the miller nut grab. It seems to me it was a tackle that went wrong not a premeditated squirrel grip. If it was under a pack and he's deliberately gone for that region I'd completely understand but watching the vision it seems like he's just grabbed onto whatever he could in the tackle. If you go for a mark and knee someone in the head it is deemed as a football act and I see this as similar. Yeah I might be biased just don't see the big deal.

 

[BrisVegasDru]

You are biased it was a grubby act, looked deliberate to me, he's a great player but his hatred of Zorko seemed to get the better of him.

On a less biased note exciting years ahead if you can keep that team together.

 

[Maboo]

I come in peace but wondering how you guys actually feel about the miller nut grab. It seems to me it was a tackle that went wrong not a premeditated squirrel grip. If it was under a pack and he's deliberately gone for that region I'd completely understand but watching the vision it seems like he's just grabbed onto whatever he could in the tackle. If you go for a mark and knee someone in the head it is deemed as a football act and I see this as similar. Yeah I might be biased just don't see the big deal.

Dog act without doubt, he has tarnished his reputation and if he is not sanctioned by the AFL I hope he is sorted out in the next Q Clash.

 

[Dalions]

I come in peace but wondering how you guys actually feel about the miller nut grab. It seems to me it was a tackle that went wrong not a premeditated squirrel grip. If it was under a pack and he's deliberately gone for that region I'd completely understand but watching the vision it seems like he's just grabbed onto whatever he could in the tackle. If you go for a mark and knee someone in the head it is deemed as a football act and I see this as similar. Yeah I might be biased just don't see the big deal.

If it was Zorko doing it to Touk, would you have the same opinion?

 

[Squizz89]

I come in peace but wondering how you guys actually feel about the miller nut grab. It seems to me it was a tackle that went wrong not a premeditated squirrel grip. If it was under a pack and he's deliberately gone for that region I'd completely understand but watching the vision it seems like he's just grabbed onto whatever he could in the tackle. If you go for a mark and knee someone in the head it is deemed as a football act and I see this as similar. Yeah I might be biased just don't see the big deal.

Both tools really, who have a genuine disdain for each other & play accordingly every time they meet. Should get in the ring and sort out their differences in there, instead of resorting to crap like that.

 

[Southern Sun]

If it was Zorko doing it to Touk, would you have the same opinion?

Absolutely. If there was a further twist to the knackers after the tackle then I understand but if it was in the tackle shown in the vision I can't see the problem.

 

[briztoon]

I come in peace but wondering how you guys actually feel about the miller nut grab. It seems to me it was a tackle that went wrong not a premeditated squirrel grip. If it was under a pack and he's deliberately gone for that region I'd completely understand but watching the vision it seems like he's just grabbed onto whatever he could in the tackle. If you go for a mark and knee someone in the head it is deemed as a football act and I see this as similar. Yeah I might be biased just don't see the big deal.

Go to most other team boards where it has been discussed.

The common view is that it was deliberate, the AFL should have investigated it, and that it hasn’t because Miller is viewed as a “good bloke”, while Zorko has a “bad boy” reputation.

 

[Mighty Lions]

I come in peace but wondering how you guys actually feel about the miller nut grab. It seems to me it was a tackle that went wrong not a premeditated squirrel grip. If it was under a pack and he's deliberately gone for that region I'd completely understand but watching the vision it seems like he's just grabbed onto whatever he could in the tackle. If you go for a mark and knee someone in the head it is deemed as a football act and I see this as similar. Yeah I might be biased just don't see the big deal.

Both Miller & Zorks have history however Millers reputation as a "good bloke" stays intact while Zorko's reputation often just gets slandered regardless just as it is in this case. If someone in any other workplace applied a squirrel grip on another person, all hell would break loose. It wasn't a mistake..it was a deliberate act. Miller (who i rate as a very good footballer) has history with acts that aren't in the spirit of the game. After the game on Sautrday night, Lachie Neale's neck and upper body was scratched in a way I have never seen done before in a football match. He had skin missing all over his upper body.
Miller's game style reminds me of Tony Liberatore. A very good footballer but is also very very good at taking away opposition players focus on the game with some not so credible tactics.