Preview Round 20 - Carlton vs GWS Giants, Sunday 5th August 2018, Etihad Stadium, 1.10pm

[Teeso]

If we were going to do it the Blues would be a good time to rest 1 or 2.

We do have the bye after the next few weeks so that'll help as well.

Jezza should be fired up and a returning MDB and possibly Griff should see us run away with it.

As for Taylor lol. Yeah we wont be moving him on.

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Just hoping jezza and greene dont get too excited and do anything silly that sees them get suspended again. Just want a disciplined and professional performance from the group that gets us the 4 points with no injuries.

 

[Giant Strides]

Is it dumber than trading Sam Taylor for a back up ruckman LOL. That thought process requires “special” abilities.

Your lying
But that's not surprising.
The first person to mock, and the first person to post rubbish, it's a really bad mix.

OK guys, let's put the claws away. We're on the same side. Agree to disagree respectfully, and avoid raking over old disagreements please.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

OK guys, let's put the claws away. We're on the same side. Agree to disagree respectfully, and avoid raking over old disagreements please.

I didn't quote his post with insults.
Frankly I dont believe a person who thinks it was an outrageous idea for the club to celebrate a new membership record is a supporter of the club by definition. It's hardly an irrational conclusion.

 

[Colonial]

Good thing fans don't make the call on what makes a supporter.

Anywho.

2 big ins possibly 3.

All 3 will be fired up.

I'm pitying the Blues should we get it right.(not really)



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[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Good thing fans don't make the call on what makes a supporter.

Anywho.

2 big ins possibly 3.

All 3 will be fired up.

I'm pitying the Blues should we get it right.(not really)



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Wierd post.

 

[KevDawg]

Could be controversial but I would give Whitfield a rest against Carlton. He is our MVP and could probably use a freshen up leading into the tough run home. We have a relatively healthy list and could probably bring De Boer in or even De Boer and Griffen.

Agree it’s a dangerous game but also feel players need to be managed. He has been phenomenal and if he is not winning the B&F this year there is something very wrong.

There is a bye coming so not essential but just feel there could be some merit to give him a week off.

Really interesting idea. He does give maximum effort each week.
I’m always worried how late he releases the ball. He always seems to ensure he sucks his opponent in, but that means he gets smashed, at least five times a game. He must get sore after each game.
I think this idea has some merit.

 

[KevDawg]

Really worry about the selection committe going back to Lobb as the sole ruck. Dawson has been a big influence in the past month and allowed Lobb to go back to his best role of floating up to the wings/defence pulling down a big mark when needed.

His shortcoming is lack of speed to get around the ground. He really is the best option in the ruck.

 

[KevDawg]

Have to disagree completely. I think we should celebrate what Dawsons done. He was a huge contributor to a critical win against Port.

Lobb is a class above as a ruck though, Dawson is limited. It's surprising to me how short peoples memories are sometimes. Lobb is working his way to fitness and Leon's been clear that's the intention.

Great that Dawson is on the list and we should keep him, as long as the club is prepared to play him if necessary, which seems to be the case.

I don’t want to solely blame Lobby for this but he is one of the culprits that always lead defenders into the one marking contest.

I remember Tippet and Franklin carving up the forward 50 by constantly leading away from the other forward.
We seem to lead to the same spot.

The other thing I’d like him to stop doing is punching the ball out of our own players’ hands in this contests.
He’s a fantastic mark but lately he is fisting the ball away too often.

 

[KevDawg]

That's pretty much my view. Except resting Lachie Whitfield is the dumbest idea I've heard for quite a while. With Shiel is it just he's all had a few tough weeks? Our midfield is very even and it's natural that different players stand out at different times, depending on opposition matchups and tactics?
If he's carrying niggles and a rest would help absolutely we should.
I like the idea of Langdon and Daniel's staying and they fix a weakness we had at the pointy end last year. How we then fit De Boer in is a mystery, but we must I think.

May not be as dumb as letting Lobb get smashed by another seasoned ruckman.
I think we need his marking and goal kicking more than him in the ruck.
I understand that’s where he wants to play.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

I don’t want to solely blame Lobby for this but he is one of the culprits that always lead defenders into the one marking contest.

I remember Tippet and Franklin carving up the forward 50 by constantly leading away from the other forward.
We seem to lead to the same spot.

The other thing I’d like him to stop doing is punching the ball out of our own players’ hands in this contests.
He’s a fantastic mark but lately he is fisting the ball away too often.

I get we've struggled with forward structure this year. Maybe Lobb has been told to focus on bringing it to ground a bit more?

 

[KevDawg]

I dont necessarily disagree Lobb is a better ruck, but the poor guy is made out of glass. I dont think its any coincidence the number of injuries he has collected since playing the number 1 ruck role this year (often patches of 3-4 weeks). Sure, the injuries arent always a direct result of rucking but the fact he is following the biggest bloke on the opposition team he often gets clobbered (punched, kicked, etc.) pretty hard and loses the height advantage he holds against KPDs. Being a ruckman is also work that requires him to move all over the ground, so he would be more fatigued which means sticking less contested marks as the match progresses and more injuries since he will be less inclined to brace properly on landing. I believe Lobb's ideal role is still as that down the line forward marker running out of the 50m arc since his timing is elite and arms are so long, rotating with himmelberg as the man marking/leading from the goal square. Of course, he is still an above average ruckman and wouldnt mind him doing some pinch hitting. Dawson being in the team gives Lobb confidence in his own game knowing he can play the same role he excelled in when Mummy used to be in the team, and provides Lobb with adequate shielding and cover from the brutality of a full game in ruck.

I do though understand you might be right that Leon's intention is to eventually play Lobb as full-time ruck, but I still think it will likely drastically shorten the amount of games he can play in a season as well as the overall longevity of his career.

He needs to beef up a bit too.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

May not be as dumb as letting Lobb get smashed by another seasoned ruckman.
I think we need his marking and goal kicking more than him in the ruck.
I understand that’s where he wants to play.

On that we dont agree. It isn't dumb to play your best ruck as a ruck. It is dumb to want to rest a player going very well, for no reason.

 

[KevDawg]

Nah because our percentage is worse than six of the other eight teams in the top half of the ladder, the extra two points would just see us in the same position in about 90% of final ladder projections.

It's the Essendon loss which hurts.

What had me worried was Melbourne vs Geelong coming really close to being a draw. Our 2 point oddity would then be reliant on percentage then.
So many teams are close to that 2 point spacer that we have.

 

[KevDawg]

So do u see Cameron Lobb and HH in the same forward line?

HH didn’t do too badly as a half forward, leading into the 50, imo.

 

[KevDawg]

Good thing fans don't make the call on what makes a supporter.

Anywho.

2 big ins possibly 3.

All 3 will be fired up.

I'm pitying the Blues should we get it right.(not really)



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Maybe it’s my Bombers past but I’ve never liked Carlton or their fans.
Always found them unnecessarily arrogant.

 

[Andre the Giant]

If we were going to do it the Blues would be a good time to rest 1 or 2.

We do have the bye after the next few weeks so that'll help as well.

Jezza should be fired up and a returning MDB and possibly Griff should see us run away with it.

As for Taylor lol. Yeah we wont be moving him on.

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Phew I’m glad I’m not alone on the Taylor trade...I reckon the kid has potential.

RE Whitfield, just spitballing because he is clearly our MVP. The lad does a power of running every week (I’d estimate 15 kms per game on GPS), clearly has a destabilised knee as his strapping suggests, gets knocked around like a rag doll every week because of his courage, and we are playing Carlton.

Not saying rest all the good players just thought it might be prudent to give him one week off.

Anyway it is most likely a moot point...he will be there and so will Sam Reid!!

 

[Colonial]

Phew I’m glad I’m not alone on the Taylor trade...I reckon the kid has potential.

RE Whitfield, just spitballing because he is clearly our MVP. The lad does a power of running every week (I’d estimate 15 kms per game on GPS), clearly has a destabilised knee as his strapping suggests, gets knocked around like a rag doll every week because of his courage, and we are playing Carlton.

Not saying rest all the good players just thought it might be prudent to give him one week off.

Anyway it is most likely a moot point...he will be there and so will Sam Reid!!

Just hope Leon agrees

Reid?

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[Danny88]

Not necessarily always in the forward 50 at the same time since more often than not Lobb will be down the line outside the 50 trying to take contested marks when we transition out from defence. He then distributes to say a Kelly/Whitfield before running forward to try and make a contest for the smaller guys. Can make it hard to mark since the ball is often on top of his head and he cant run onto the ball as much as he would like. Probably another reason why he doesnt kick as many goals but that is not his primary role. Leaves us with Cameron, Himmelberg and Greene as marking targets with Daniels, Langdon, DeBoer/Griffen and our mids to chase the ground ball.

But yes, on the occasion where all 3 tall forwards are in our forward 50, it would be reminiscent of our 2016 where we had Cameron, Patton and Lobb all together which seemed to work pretty well. Of course, it would mean lots of work would need to go into leading into different parts of the ground otherwise they would just neutralise each other. A 207cm forward whose strength is contested marking is very hard for a probably 195cm KPD to defend. If Lobb lead at the ball like Ben Brown, he would be a nightmare. Same could be said for HH even despite the height deficit. At this point though, I do prefer what Himmelberg offers over Patton since whilst his frame isnt as big, he is still a great contested mark and good one-on-one, and he brings an upgrade in mobility and defensive pressure which will be invaluable if we can make it deep into September.

The other disadvantage of having Lobb as sole ruck is if he does go down early in the game, we have no other genuine ruck. We can put players like Himmelberg, Tomlinson or Ward there but they dont really offer much (perhaps we try Coniglio since he did beat Hickey in the 1 ruck contest!) since they are purely there as the extra mid rather than providing a contest in the air. Other teams (Richmond, Bulldogs, etc.) were able to combat this by playing really close to their opposition and disposing quickly at ground level, but we dont particularly like manning up as much as we are more a team that focuses on our own strengths and this can make it hard when we come up against elite opposition ruckman. When we get forced to play a close and tight brand of footy which we arent used to, we panic and handball too much to the closest player (who often has someone breathing down their neck) and can forget to distribute it to the free man on the outside.

Of course that is just my thoughts and I have no doubt Leon knows better than me and is looking to put Lobb into a full-time ruck role. I just dont think his frame and physicality is suited to playing that role yet and he would offer more as a permanent forward pinch-hitting in the ruck.

Mate this is a really long post so I’ll try address only a few things

-you mention we had 3 talls in 2016. You forget we were worst in the league for forward pressure acts and F50 tackles. We simply cannot afford to let the ball rebound straight back

-you mention you want Rory to play high up the wing and be a lead up/ up the line target. That’s a waste of a spot. The ruck can/should be that tall target

I just don’t agree that Dawson is that good. We are supposed to back him cos his tap work is so good and get he got badly beaten on Saturday by hickey, a ruck saints fans didn’t want to pick cos he is so rubbish. I also think we play better with a smaller forward line so

 

[IanW]

Same as last week, and the week before.

We need the four points and no injuries, everything else is secondary.

Ask Kelly and Shiel if they need a rest - if they do, great, if not, play em.

Sam Reid out for Cameron.

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

-you mention we had 3 talls in 2016. You forget we were worst in the league for forward pressure acts and F50 tackles. We simply cannot afford to let the ball rebound straight back

Cameron is a better tackler today than he was in 2016, HH seems to be more mobile and puts more pressure on than Jonny P, and Langdon, Daniels and DeBoer are streets ahead of Johnson (and even where Smith was) in defensive pressure in the forward 50.

Lobb is slightly down on his defensive work from where he was and Toby is about the same.

With the personnel we have today, I think we’re a much better chance of keeping it locked in.

 

[dlanod]

Go Nick! Especially given those early years smashed by injury.

 

[dlanod]

IMO our forward line has been much improved this year. We've been playing a marking target one out within 10-25m of goal (sometimes a resting mid in Cameron's absense), a second option 25m-50m out and the third tall option running up the wings (was Patton, now Lobb - probably his best position). HH generally rotates between the first two. This has given our guys a lot more space to lead into while also practically enforcing them not to lead into each other's space. It only breaks down in a highly congested forward line when the opposition has had time to set up, so I don't hold that against them.

With Cameron coming in I'd expect HH to continue to rotate the first two, especially given the success he's been having, Jeremy the second two as it lets him use space which is when he's most dangerous, and Lobb playing a similar role to currently.

 

[Cmarsh]

Wouldn't mind seeing Zach Sproule come in but not sure there is a place for him.

 

[Andre the Giant]

Matt de Boer must come in for Reid.

Reid has played his role but seriously he routinely has the worst stats of any player in our best 22 and De Boer is a better pressure player and goal kicker, it’s a no brainer.

Cameron will replace one of the smalls, either Daniels or Langdon. That could go either way as both have been super contributors.

Would love to see Bonar get a run. This could be his only chance to see a senior game and he has strung together a few good performances in the Magoos.

Can’t put them all in! Nice dilemma.

 

[dlanod]

I agree with MdB in for Reid, but I wouldn't mind seeing Cameron come in for Dawson. Let's us keep the same relatively successful forward structure. Ideally we'd structure it so Tomlinson could ruck down back, HH up forward and Lobb pushes from wing to wing to provide a marking presence rather than wearing him down getting him to throw-ins in the forward pocket.