Toast Round 20 = Collingwood 90-45 West Coast

[76woodenspooners]

The Leigh Mathews rule.

The “I support Collingwood” rule usually makes me more nervous in final quarters …

… but that Dunstall - Lyon Exchange did make me relax and feel like we had this one.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

yes a gun inside mid - If ONLY he could kick ,,,,

His first quarter kicking in particular changed my mind about him being next captain. He works his butt off but his foot skills are atrocious.

 

[76woodenspooners]

What isn't to like. Thats one of those days I'm tempted to put "team effort" in the bests. Everyone played their role. Abso*******lutely awesome.



The Credit Where Credit is Due Section

Steele Sidebottom. I have been seriously critical, but maybe responsibility brought out his best. That was a leadership moment game

JT. Found a new lease on life worthy of Dorian Gray. Playing good footy and strong team player

JDG - earning his payday and showing talent can meet application and result in awesomeness

Grundy - Kicked ass and took names. Tackles, clearances, owning the field. Thats what Im talking bout.


The youngsters Making me Bone Up in a Non-Homoerotic Way Section

Henry - Looks a silky machine. Wait till he has a few more preseasons and kilos, he is already building confidence in spades.

Fin Macrae - Silky, good positioning, good decision making, prepared to be creative. Another in the give me a couple more preseasons and watch and enjoy list

Minivan - He and McCreery are going to be a headache.

IQ - better balance of attack and defence. That goal!

Trey Ruscoe. A natural HBF with skills, poise, and courage. Wow

Trent Bianco - He's got a lot of natural talent, just needs more games. Keeps on keeping on, and generally a great user, doesnt waste it.


The Old Pros being old Pros section

Crispy - Responsible for my erotic attachment to stakeknives

Adams - Yes he can't kick, but he is harder than the proverbial and gives it all

Howe - I didnt think he would be able to come straight in and pick up the pace. I was wrong. We have missed him.



I'm the first to admit I'm baked and sozzled right now, but that was great and a positive sight for the future.

Happy Birthday to you and all the other good horses out there! 🕯

 

[Scodog10]

It was an odd statement really, wasn’t it? AFL history is littered with players who didn’t look like they’d amount to much initially, but then broke out and became out and out stars.

Like Kappa I think it was an attention seeking comment. Key difference for me is that F&B doesn’t have form and it might have just been a bit OTT.

There’s no point buying in on the youth until Gone Critical tells us that these mid to late picks might actually turn into something so we need to temper things, but as long as you embrace us being bottom 4 next year and have some patience you’ll be alright.

 

[doppleganger]

I think the way they measure the stats on that is a tad misleading …

… For example, it would suggest a coupling of Mayne and Ginnivan has a higher average games experience than a coupling of DeGoey and Elliott.

I reckon it’d be more meaningful if they just pinned anybody over 100 games to 100 games.

Also, our age average is a bit out of whack with players in the team like Madgen, Noble and Cameron who entered the comp as mature age players.

Sure, like any descriptive stat, they are limited, and need to ensure look closer if wanting to really do any valuable analysis.

More just noting that the standard line trotted out by commentators and many fans that we are a young team didn't really apply.

We trotted out a strong, experienced mature team with a handful of raw kids. If wanting to use 100 game, from my count we had 12 players yesterday who had played 100+ games...

Freo today are a young inexperienced team, see if they can stand up against the Tigers.

 

[Scodog10]

Against Port our avg age was 24.7 and avg games was 85.

Against Eagles our avg age was 26.0 and avg games was 103....hardly a "young" team.

The Freo team today against Richmond as a comparison avg age of 23.7 and avg games 66.....that is a young inexperienced team!!

Down back we added Mayne and Howe, two very calm heads.

We added WHE and Thomas to midfield/forward, and they too know where to run and how to impact games.

Yes we had 5 real raw guys u10 games - Macrae, Ruscoe, Gin, Bianco, Henry - but the best way to develop them is to surround them with senior players, which is what we did.

Our team compared to that we put out against Port was a much more balanced and experienced team.

It’s worth bearing in mind that the squad v Port was horrible. Cox as sub, Poulter in the 22 and Murphy in whatever role they used him that week was never going to work. Options were thin on the ground at VFL level, but Sier instead of Poulter, Rantall as the sub and Cox in the starting 22 would have given us a decent chance of knocking them off, IMO, and it would have corrected the games/ experience divide somewhat.

As a club we need to get better at not hamstringing ourselves with poor team selection and playing guys out of position. It’s one thing that’s absolutely within our control and 18-19 aside we’ve struggled with it for a decade.

 

[Roverjg]

Perkins v henry (I’ve seen both play plenty of times), not sure how u class Perkins as elite. Haven’t seen anything to suggest this. He’s shown glimpses same as our kids have at times. He’s had shocking games as well, same as ours.
Now both as forwards, I know which stats I’d prefer! Only one of them is in elite status BTW

Henry's stats will improve as will all of our forwards if we continue this fast paced ball movement

On SM-N975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[magpies42]

The issue for us is that the older players were key Sidebottom, Mayne, Howe, Elliot. Sidebottom in particular is disappointing, why can’t he play like that every week?! Still haven’t forgiven for not coming back after the birth of his child…assuming there were no complications of course.

 

[TakingThePies]

The issue for us is that the older players were key Sidebottom, Mayne, Howe, Elliot. Sidebottom in particular is disappointing, why can’t he play like that every week?! Still haven’t forgiven for not coming back after the birth of his child…assuming there were no complications of course.

Anyone that says this.... has no idea.

 

[doppleganger]

It’s worth bearing in mind that the squad v Port was horrible. Cox as sub, Poulter in the 22 and Murphy in whatever role they used him that week was never going to work. Options were thin on the ground at VFL level, but Sier instead of Poulter, Rantall as the sub and Cox in the starting 22 would have given us a decent chance of knocking them off, IMO, and it would have corrected the games/ experience divide somewhat.

As a club we need to get better at not hamstringing ourselves with poor team selection and playing guys out of position. It’s one thing that’s absolutely within our control and 18-19 aside we’ve struggled with it for a decade.

100% agree.

We shot ourselves in the foot against Port, the encouraging thing was that we still had a dip and were very competitive.

We added 4 100+ gamers to the Port team, were much more balanced...the "young" Pies narrative simply didn't hold yesterday.

Eagles and Pies both went in with 12 100+ players yesterday.

When our experienced talent shows up and cracks in - Sidey, WHE and DeGoey - we are a solid team, and it allows kids bob up and play a role and build confidence.

 

[Pistol Night]

Thanks for your very informative post, you peanut.

I could be mistaken but wasnt there a complication after the birth? Not judging either way but could of been a factor

 

[magpies42]

I could be mistaken but wasnt there a complication after the birth? Not judging either way but could of been a factor

As I said in my post if that’s the case then entirely understandable.

Any other way it’s pretty poor IMO. I get needing to be there for the birth, but anything after that is just an indulgence. Mothers and fathers used to manage a lot more and without FaceTime! Many players and coaches sacrificed over that period, they could have managed, the baby and wife could have come up…or they could have managed separated for a month or so.

Sidey gets paid top dollar and I’m sorry but you are paid to play and particularly when finals are on the line! That’s the reality. I don’t buy into all this sensitive nonsense.

 

[Apex36]

Like Kappa I think it was an attention seeking comment. Key difference for me is that F&B doesn’t have form and it might have just been a bit OTT.

There’s no point buying in on the youth until Gone Critical tells us that these mid to late picks might actually turn into something so we need to temper things, but as long as you embrace us being bottom 4 next year and have some patience you’ll be alright.

I’m bullish on our youth and our ability to stay outside the top 4 next to year provided the incoming coach doesn’t try to get cute and reinvent the wheel by playing players out of their natural position. That means shifting Kelly back to defence so we aren’t relying on the likes of Tohill and Madgen. With the addition of Johnson and Begg alongside McMahon I think we have enough speculative talk forwards, but we’re thin on defenders and I’m not convinced either Keane or Tohill have to tools to make it at senior level.

I don’t think the impact the loss of both Howe and Moore this year can be underestimated. We might not be finals material in 2022, but I definitely think we have the capacity to avoid bottom4 if we get the necessary appointments right at the end of the year.

 

[Scodog10]

100% agree.

We shot ourselves in the foot against Port, the encouraging thing was that we still had a dip and were very competitive.

We added 4 100+ gamers to the Port team, were much more balanced...the "young" Pies narrative simply didn't hold yesterday.

Eagles and Pies both went in with 12 100+ players yesterday.

When our experienced talent shows up and cracks in - Sidey, WHE and DeGoey - we are a solid team, and it allows kids bob up and play a role and build confidence.

+JT and it was the poor early season form of that group that killed us. It makes you wonder what might have been had we played with more intent, nailed those positional moves and had those 1 point results go our way...

At the very least we’d be on the fringes of the 8 and for me it’s an indication that the list is ok, but the system needs work.

 

[Scodog10]

I’m bullish on our youth and our ability to stay outside the top 4 next to year provided the incoming coach doesn’t try to get cute and reinvent the wheel by playing players out of their natural position. That means shifting Kelly back to defence so we aren’t relying on the likes of Tohill and Madgen. With the addition of Johnson and Begg alongside McMahon I think we have enough speculative talk forwards, but we’re thin on defenders and I’m not convinced either Keane or Tohill have to tools to make it at senior level.

I don’t think the impact the loss of both Howe and Moore this year can be underestimated. We might not be finals material in 2022, but I definitely think we have the capacity to avoid bottom4 if we get the necessary appointments right at the end of the year.

There’s your key word. Until we invest hard in top tier KPF talent I won’t be comfortable with the list build. Surely it comes in 2022…

I’d love to share the optimism for next year, but a new coach with an aging midfield and defense (Steele, Pendles, Mayne, Roughead and Howe all 30+ and 4 of those 5 were in our best group yesterday) suggests to me there’ll be challenges. The main one is that Hawthorn aside the clubs around us are on the up. GC can’t stay this bad forever, North are building nicely and have significant midfield and KP assets, Adelaide are starting to build a talented base which will be boosted by another top 5 pick. I mean we could do a Melbourne post 2018, but I think it would take a guy like T Brown or Kelly breaking out and I just don’t think they have it in them.

I’ve said it a few times now WC and Richmond are the watches next year because like us they don’t have the talent in that 22-28 age bracket and they don’t have the talent underneath to remain mid table, IMO.

 

[doppleganger]

+JT and it was the poor early season form of that group that killed us. It makes you wonder what might have been had we played with more intent, nailed those positional moves and had those 1 point results go our way...

At the very least we’d be on the fringes of the 8 and for me it’s an indication that the list is ok, but the system needs work.

Yep, our % of 90+ shows that we really aren't a bottom four club performance wise.

And yep, the avg and I consistent form of our stars hurt us.

Will be no different next year, if we rise up it will be on the back of Moore, Grundy, DeGoey, Adams being AA level and if a couple of younger guys make a jump.

 

[stormskye]

There’s your key word. Until we invest hard in top tier KPF talent I won’t be comfortable with the list build. Surely it comes in 2022…

I’d love to share the optimism for next year, but a new coach with an aging midfield and defense (Steele, Pendles, Mayne, Roughead and Howe all 30+ and 4 of those 5 were in our best group yesterday) suggests to me there’ll be challenges. The main one is that Hawthorn aside the clubs around us are on the up. GC can’t stay this bad forever, North are building nicely and have significant midfield and KP assets, Adelaide are starting to build a talented base which will be boosted by another top 5 pick. I mean we could do a Melbourne post 2018, but I think it would take a guy like T Brown or Kelly breaking out and I just don’t think they have it in them.

I’ve said it a few times now WC and Richmond are the watches next year because like us they don’t have the talent in that 22-28 age bracket and they don’t have the talent underneath to remain mid table, IMO.

I share concerns with KPP but I’m quietly confident our midfield is in ok shape with Daicos this year and his brother back on the park. 2 x daicos, adams, Degoey, macrae, reef, bianco. There’s some talent there with crisp and Maynard playing a part. Nobody is expecting us to climb next year, the focus is 2023 and beyond. Next year will be another bottom 6 finish no doubt, which will come with another top pick. End of 2022 high picks, and salary cap space we should be able to add some decent KPP via draft and FA. I agree, I’m not sold on Kelly, Tohill Or Keane at this point. Things can turn quickly. Though I’m jealous of the dogs being kissed on the …. With two elite KPP in two years for free whilst they are already stacked…

 

[MyManLynch]

Yeah, there is a chance …

View attachment 1192820

… insanely improbable though. Requires at least one drawn game.

Korda was right !

 

[MyManLynch]

The Leigh Mathews rule.

I actually invented that rule in the 70’s at Victoria Park.
Not sure how Mathews gets credit for my rule.

 

[TradeDraft]

Like yesterday our Shots for Goal was In Front of Goal and not many on Angles.

Direct Footy is Great to See

 

[HeathySure]

Its amazing when you play players in their correct position and not try and fit players in holes where they don't fit. (WHE Sidebottom De Goey , Ruscoe, Macrae i could go on and on).

Playing our youngsters deep forward did not help them at all, especially given how the delivery was into the forward line earlier this year. . Harvey probably has the luxury of not having to win games but the difference between the defensive crap Buckley was playing to save games is chalk and cheese to what we are playing now.

My other takeaways from this game is that Henry is our future and will be as good as Naughton. Cannot wait until Bianco moves into the mids, he makes space when there is none there, his disposal will fix itself when he gets the pace of the game and i think we have 3 0r 4 future 200 gamers from the rookies we are playing,

 

[Mukesh]

So if you go back and think of our guns- Pendles through to Maynard, they have all shown brilliance and star quality early. I dont think any of our kids have really shown that. When they do I will jump on board.

Far from sullen and downcast, I think we have a highly talented top end who are still yet to find their peak. Adams and Moore, without injury, should be consistent AAs. Maynard and Crisp could compete for that level as well. DeGoey could be the best player in the comp if his work rate continues to trend up and match his talent and Grundy has been trending back in the right direction too. Add in a quality youngster in Quaynor and our three top end veterans and I think we have a great base to worth with.

Would other teams be dying to trade for any of our youngsters because of what they have shown? I dont think so. They are not like a Cox or a Perkins or a Tom Green that have shown qualities at the top level that are elite.

I'm not saying they won't or are crap either, just saying there have been no definite star potential games from our youngsters.

I don't recall Mr Maynards first few games, but I venture to suggest no one on here was proclaiming him a star after them...

 

[migz]

Yesterday's game was an example of what clever coaching can do. Now I'm not saying Harvey is the man for the job but they went in yesterday with a plan. West coasts strength is the aerial ball and how theyve had our measure in recent times is by forcing us high down the line. We countered that perfectly yesterday by playing keepings off and delivering the ball low the whole game. This was the first part of the plan that was executed perfectly.

Also in the third you could see the boys purposely slowing down play at times when we had posession so that west coast wouldn't have the ability to claw back the margin as we had clearly spent a lot of energy in the first half. This set us up with a big lead going in to the last which west coast had no hope of catching.

Bring in a smart coach and we see more performances like yesterday. When the boys have confidence in their coach and the system we see players, new or old shine.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Its amazing when you play players in their correct position and not try and fit players in holes where they don't fit. (WHE Sidebottom De Goey , Ruscoe, Macrae i could go on and on).

Playing our youngsters deep forward did not help them at all, especially given how the delivery was into the forward line earlier this year. . Harvey probably has the luxury of not having to win games but the difference between the defensive crap Buckley was playing to save games is chalk and cheese to what we are playing now.

My other takeaways from this game is that Henry is our future and will be as good as Naughton. Cannot wait until Bianco moves into the mids, he makes space when there is none there, his disposal will fix itself when he gets the pace of the game and i think we have 3 0r 4 future 200 gamers from the rookies we are playing,

Henry will be good but he won't be Naughton. We still need a KPF as much as ever.

 

[Here2tellyouwhy]

Please, his thighs are magnificent!

Thoughts Here2tellyouwhy ?

Hurs is the only good part of our sh*tstain club