Autopsy Round 21, 2019: St.Kilda v Fremantle

dct66

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Jun 19, 2014
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Certainly wasn’t hanging him for it if you look back at my original post. I made a simple post saying it showed his hesitancy in that moment, I didn’t criticise his match. Certainly triggered the Acres club though who were seemingly unable to acknowledge any flaws.
I'm his advocate, it's my job to stick up for him :)
 

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sammm

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he is contracted ... the media can say what they like ... we are not giving Jack Steven to Geelong for a half chewwed chewy ... we will out of good faith entertain a trade.. we will go to the table with ideas on the trade but if Geelong dont play ball then we should not be at all afraid to hold Jack to his contract obligations and if he is totally against that then thats on him if he chooses to retire ...
i strongly believe if he does want to leave we will get a somewhat reasonable compensation for him as he is contracted
as for us getting nothing if he retires you are right but if he retires we dont strengthen our opponent for chump change .... we want whats best for jack for sure but we are not going to be giving him away for free cause we are nice guys ..
best case he stays with us , next best we get a fair trade , next best we force him to stay , worst case he retires , disaster worst case we give him to geelong for free ..

I just don't understand. its only an hour to Geelong from here. what is the difference? its not as if his family is from another state?
 

plugger66

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I just don't understand. its only an hour to Geelong from here. what is the difference? its not as if his family is from another state?
What if his mental issues means he needs to live or be close to his family.
 

bergholt

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Mar 14, 2007
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I just don't understand. its only an hour to Geelong from here. what is the difference? its not as if his family is from another state?
I don't know what the situation is, but a theory could be that at his age he wants to be closer to his child so that he can be an active part of their life. It's a 2.5 hour drive from Linton St to Lorne, if that's where his kid is living then he has to either have a long commute to work or a long drive to see his kid - neither are ideal. Personally I've changed jobs to reduce my commute time, I'd understand if he wanted to as well.
 

Billy Bob65

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May 15, 2005
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Congratulations on the win.

Here are the midfield frequency stats from the game. If you haven't seen a previous post, this is an overall summary of how often your players were lining up as one of the 5 mids at bounces.

Overall Summary - 23 Bounces

Billings 22 wing
Steele 21 - Fyfe 20
Ross 19 (5w)
Dunstan 15
Hannebery 13 (8i, 5w)
Sinclair 11 (6i, 5w)
Acres 5 (4i, 1w)
Steven 4 (3i, 1w)
Hind 2 wing
Lonie 2 wing
Long 1

Rucks:
Marshall 20
Carlisle 1
Bruce 2

Centre Clearances (as per Champion Data/AFL.com.au
Billings 3
Dunstan 2
Ross 1
Marshall 1

1st Half - 13

Billings 12 wing
Steele 12
Ross 11 (7i, 4w)
Hannebery 8 (6w, 2i)
Dunstan 7
Acres 5 (4i, 1w)
Sinclair 4
Steven 3 (2i, 1w)
Hind 2 wing
Long 1

Marshall 10
Carlisle 1
Bruce 2

Final Term - 4

Billings 4 wing
Steele 4
Ross 4 (3i, 1w)
Dunstan 3
Hannebery 2 (1w, 1i)
Sinclair 2 wing
Steven 1

Marshall 4

Notes:
- No real surprise that this is the lowest ever starts for Steven in analysed games
- Fewest starts for Hannebery in a non-injury impacted game since Rd 16, 2018
 

gringo2011

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It's pretty well known that the worst thing you can do as a forward is kick it long to the goal-line so it makes it easy for a defender to punch through. The thing that put the mistake on Lonie is he was 40m out and not kicking around a corner... it's criminal to not make the distance from there in that situation and put it to the goal-line.

Unfortunately, Blake suffers from something you see a lot in life: people have a set on him and see everything he does in a bad light. I see the same in workplaces everywhere from managers and it s**ts me no end.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with picking out and bringing up mistakes but so many people get blinded by their own bias against an individual they end up seeing mistakes when they aren't even there while letting things other people do slide. It's pretty cancerous stuff and I hope our coaches can see the bigger picture (I have a feeling from listening to Ratts he is fantastic at this, a really great manager of people).

The weird thing is it's this kind of odd contrariness because others have talked him up. It's like hating the popular kid because he's popular.
 

gringo2011

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Gee Clark stiff... played a sublime game I thought

Seb was huge too, didn't make a mistake that I remember and did some important things. I think he had the most possessions of any Saints as well. Pretty good game from Savage too. I reckon Langdon had a lot of possessions that didn't do much damage as well.
 

gringo2011

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I've genuinely never seen anything like that. Umpires at all levels are taught to stick to their guns with players once you blow the whistle but I've never seen an umpire refuse to accept a call from another umpire before. He gave her a way out and she just would not take it.

There was one where they paid holding the ball against us when the player was pushed and never tackled. It was a clown show.
 

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gringo2011

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It's a joke he hasn't received one yet. And it's looking like he will miss out because they have favoured giving the nominations to forwards all year.

I honestly don't give a fu** what the "experts" say, he's going to be a gun anyway. I would rather people underestimate us, at some point we will turn it around, I love being an underdog.
 

plugger66

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Jan 10, 2011
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I honestly don't give a fu** what the "experts" say, he's going to be a gun anyway. I would rather people underestimate us, at some point we will turn it around, I love being an underdog.
Are you sure. Reading your posts suggests you aren’t keen on that.
 

gringo2011

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Should Josh Bruce be hitting the scoreboard more..... Absolutely.
And if we had someone in the wings that could play his role Kernel, I would certainly entertain a trade offer. We don't unfortunately, and to boot, he is currently sitting 4th in the AFL for contested marks. Players like that are very hard to come by. We got him cheap, he's only played 111 games, and he is entering the prime years for a key forward. IMO we would be taking a backwards step by trading him.

View attachment 725641

You'd kill King making him play the main man role from day one. It's a recipe for destroying his career. Bruce is a big body with a protective streak and just the player you want training the kid for the hand over. Bruce is still a leader off field too.
 

gringo2011

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Contested marks is the second most overrated stat in footy. Not because they aren’t important. They certainly are but hardly anyone gets more than 2 a game on average. I’d rather a stat on missed contested marks either leading to a ball up or your side getting it. The contest is the vital stat.

I'd like the overrated Naughton, that game he played earlier in the year looked like Wayne Carey. He was huge and it was literally the contested marking that made him special and lifted the team over the line on his back. It's like the game breaker where you get a shot on goal from a 50/50 and Mc Govern has literally saved game after game with his ability to out mark others in a contest. It's a pretty handy skill if you don't like the stat.
 

plugger66

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I'd like the overrated Naughton, that game he played earlier in the year looked like Wayne Carey. He was huge and it was literally the contested marking that made him special and lifted the team over the line on his back. It's like the game breaker where you get a shot on goal from a 50/50 and Mc Govern has literally saved game after game with his ability to out mark others in a contest. It's a pretty handy skill if you don't like the stat.
You obviously didn’t read what I wrote.
 

Diehard Saint

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Or some don’t realise most players are mentioned when they make mistakes
Problem is, we are all more like Richo than we thought 🙄
constantly looking at the negatives and not acknowledging the positives of certain players.

If players were constantly just performing poorly, pretty sure they wouldn’t keep getting games. It would just be nice to have a balanced approach to the whipping boys we have on here.
 

plugger66

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Problem is, we are all more like Richo than we thought 🙄
constantly looking at the negatives and not acknowledging the positives of certain players.

If players were constantly just performing poorly, pretty sure they wouldn’t keep getting games. It would just be nice to have a balanced approach to the whipping boys we have on here.
Does that also apply to overrating players
 

Diehard Saint

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Does that also apply to overrating players
Possibly.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Most on here have their favourites. Personally I prefer to look at the positives of our players rather than bag them. Sometimes players make mistakes, some are not as good as others, but I do believe they all try their hardest and I hate the whipping boy mentality we have....Raph, Gilbo, Savage, DMac, Lonie, Acres....

At the game on Sunday we had a guy near us ( hope not one of you peeps) who bagged Brucey constantly. The final minute shut him up thankfully 🤣 but I had to put up with it for an entire game.
 

plugger66

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Possibly.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Most on here have their favourites. Personally I prefer to look at the positives of our players rather than bag them. Sometimes players make mistakes, some are not as good as others, but I do believe they all try their hardest and I hate the whipping boy mentality we have....Raph, Gilbo, Savage, DMac, Lonie, Acres....

At the game on Sunday we had a guy near us ( hope not one of you peeps) who bagged Brucey constantly. The final minute shut him up thankfully 🤣 but I had to put up with it for an entire game.
I don’t bag players. Well I do but I do it very evenly.
 

Drake Huggins

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Should Josh Bruce be hitting the scoreboard more..... Absolutely.
And if we had someone in the wings that could play his role Kernel, I would certainly entertain a trade offer. We don't unfortunately, and to boot, he is currently sitting 4th in the AFL for contested marks. Players like that are very hard to come by. We got him cheap, he's only played 111 games, and he is entering the prime years for a key forward. IMO we would be taking a backwards step by trading him.

View attachment 725641
Throw in the fact he's clearly a leader, both on and off field. We are not exactly flush in that area atm. In fact, if I had to appoint a captain for next year, assuming Geary won't be it, Josh would be close to the favourite.

A valuable commodity, indeed. Of course, if someone offered you a (Ben) King's ransom, I'd listen.
 
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