Review Round 21, 2022 - Brisbane Lions vs. Carlton

Who were your five best players against Carlton?


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BuntonRules

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If all Rayner is this season is a high impact role player who ranks elite in goal assists, above average in score assists & 300 metres gained from 15 touches, I think we could do a LOT worse.

Paddy Dow went at 3 the same draft. Was a genuine contender for no. 1. Not up to it, if Sunday is any indication.
 

M Malice

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It's interesting that those who continually marked down Matho as AFL level seem to have doubled down that he's not what we want and won't last. Ironically as he's gotten better.

The same logic that still brands Keays as not much of a player.

I've got to be honest I never rated Matho for all the reasons that people still say they don't rate him. But there's come a time for me to admit that he really has added energy and a bit of excitement to the team and he's a lot better player than ever I thought he would be. He has one or two moments a game where his raw energy excites the group.

The interesting thing to add is that his inside handballs have improved out of sight and he's doing things I never thought him capable of.

OK ,he'll never be a champ , he's got deficiencies ,but he's worked very hard on the abilities he does have and gives it his all. So kudos to him for sticking at it and adding something to the team.
Matho seems to have improved his endurance as well, I haven't noticed him standing with hands on head gasping for breath like he has in the past. He will never be a running machine like a Gaff or Whitfield but kudos to him for all the work he has put in over the last few off seasons.
 

martinson

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Suggesting that it's an AFL "directive" to give the losing team a "leg up" is an overreach IMO.

That said, the whole vibe of the competition this season is how "close" the comp is, so I do think the umps regularly (but subconsciously) tend to even things up if a good old fashion belting is in the offing. Not a good look if a big Melbourne club like Carlton gets totally pantsed by an "Interstate" team.

Exhibit A is the astonishing "non free" after Cal got polaxed by Cripps' crude charge. The fact that Cripps has now been cited by the MRO doesn't alter the fact that their was a sudden (if temporary) shift in momentum in the game as a result.

Exhibit B was the ridiculously technical 50 against Zorko in the last quarter for going over the mark.

Not only had there been several instances during the game of the umpires showing common sense and calling players back a metre or two but their has generally been a lot more tolerance for that type of thing all season.

Now when the big comeback is on , the umpire gets excited and piles on. Instead of keeping a level head as a dramatic momentum shift is unfolding, he becomes a contributor to it


It's IS frustrating.
It's always been the same . Umps go with the ebb and flow of the game and get caught up in momentum, the continual roar of the crowd for 'ball' has to mentally affect your decision making.

It's also like anything in life ,you make one or two poor decisions, you think I'm not doing that again so what you end up doing has a bit of history behind it.

Tbh it's a really tough game to umpire and having 3 umpires has overcomplicated it from a consistency standpoint , I always hated the little white maggots but as I've gotten older realised you can't change anything , sometimes it goes your way ,mostly it doesn't seem to but we have to live with it.
 

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WhiteLionFeva

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Paddy Dow went at 3 the same draft. Was a genuine contender for no. 1. Not up to it, if Sunday is any indication.
To be fair, I've seen Dow play much better than he did on Sunday but he is definitely at risk. Probably not hard enough at it for Vossy's liking. Setterfield is another.
 

luthor

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Matho seems to have improved his endurance as well, I haven't noticed him standing with hands on head gasping for breath like he has in the past. He will never be a running machine like a Gaff or Whitfield but kudos to him for all the work he has put in over the last few off seasons.

He did quite a lot of two way running yesterday.

Players often get unfairly pigeonholed as too slow or unskillful or only able to play one position or whatever.

Matho has been great and has dispelled a lot of false narratives and group think about his supposed deficiencies
 

M Malice

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He did quite a lot of two way running yesterday.

Players often get unfairly pigeonholed as too slow or unskillful or only able to play one position or whatever.

Matho has been great and has dispelled a lot of false narratives and group think about his supposed deficiencies
I was in that Matho deficiencies clique, I didn't think he and Lyons could play in the same midfield... who would have thought that Fagan and co knew more about football than a 62 year old bogan wannabe footy expert who has never set foot on a footy field.

200.gif
 

Sherrinator

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Suggesting that it's an AFL "directive" to give the losing team a "leg up" is an overreach IMO.

That said, the whole vibe of the competition this season is how "close" it is, so I do think the umps regularly (but subconsciously) tend to even things up if a good old fashion belting is in the offing. Not a good look if a big Melbourne club like Carlton gets totally pantsed by an "Interstate" team.

Exhibit A is the astonishing "non free" after Cal got polaxed by Cripps' crude charge. The fact that Cripps has now been cited by the MRO doesn't alter the fact that their was a sudden (if temporary) shift in momentum in the game as a result.

Exhibit B was the ridiculously technical 50 against Zorko in the last quarter for going over the mark.

Not only had there been several instances during the game of the umpires showing common sense and calling players back a metre or two but their has generally been a lot more tolerance for that type of thing all season.

Now when the big comeback is on , the umpire gets excited and piles on. Instead of keeping a level head as a dramatic momentum shift is unfolding, he becomes a contributor to it


It IS frustrating.
I’m not a conspiracy theorist but it happens during every game every round.
 

3KZ is Football

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I thought we did remonstrate with Carlton players but the fact that Cal got onto his knees and looked like he could get up made it look not as bad as it was.

We were sufficiently upset that we lost focus on the footy for the next 10 minutes and it seemed to inspire them.

Ironically it potentially helps us if he doesn't get rubbed out. But he will.
Perhaps I am showing my age, but David McMahon or Michael Conlan or Gary Sidebottom or Ron Alexander would have knocked Cripps into next week, they would have done it toe to toe and we would have been proud of them. I do miss the classic old school level up when I see weak dogs like Cripps knock blokes out with what can only be described as a cheap shots.
 

mattsmob

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I was in that Matho deficiencies clique, I didn't think he and Lyons could play in the same midfield... who would have thought that Fagan and co knew more about football than a 62 year old bogan wannabe footy expert who has never set foot on a footy field.

200.gif
To be fair I don't think it's completely sold that both of them can play in the same midfield. I would still be trying to get Lohmann in the team for one of them and having Rayner/Bailey/Berry play more minutes in the middle. Time will tell but I don't think either will be definite best 22 next year and could see Lyons have a similar season to Robbo this year. Having said that yesterday was the best game as a group we've played so they both deserve the chance to back that up again next week.
 

Denno

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With the benefit of 24 hrs, pretty happy with the win.

Felt like our pressure was (at least early on) back to where it has been in previous years (when at our best), and from there, it's just a matter of converting enough.

Speaking of pressure though, one thing that seriously gets on my nerves is when we run to someone, and instead of corralling and forcing the player to kick on their opposite, we overplay it, not get anywhere near a tackle, and then let the player get back onto their preferred foot to kick forward.

From memory, we did it twice in the last quarter yesterday - Zorko on O'Brien (on the "far" HFF), and either Robinson or Berry (I think!) against Cottrell on the near wing. It goes back years too - can still remember Banfield doing it!

It's some of these "little things" that I feel would greatly help out the back six, especially with non-preferred skill across the league not where it was IMO (think of our premiership midfields as a reference!).

Interested if anyone else thinks similar?
 

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dlanod

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It's interesting that those who continually marked down Matho as AFL level seem to have doubled down that he's not what we want and won't last. Ironically as he's gotten better.
Nup, I'm on board now. His ineffables are definitely a step up on others at the moment, though I do think he'll inevitably be on a shorter leash than say, a Lyons.
 

davemc_lions

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The thing is with Lyons, Matho and Neale.. Not sure we are the fastest team
Although all three are mids and hence we getting our hands on the ball better then we had been.

I do worry we trying to get Rayner and Bailey to be mids.. Where we be better off them both forward.
Same as Hugh is it better having his delivery on the outside on the wing then inside.
 

PattyKwasagun

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Nup, I'm on board now. His ineffables are definitely a step up on others at the moment, though I do think he'll inevitably be on a shorter leash than say, a Lyons.

Totally agree. I was skeptical of what he could bring and reluctant to see him selected, but have been won over. I think what he's producing now is a clear step up on what he has produced at senior level in the past.
 

spotthedog1

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It's interesting that those who continually marked down Matho as AFL level seem to have doubled down that he's not what we want and won't last. Ironically as he's gotten better.

The same logic that still brands Keays as not much of a player.

I've got to be honest I never rated Matho for all the reasons that people still say they don't rate him. But there's come a time for me to admit that he really has added energy and a bit of excitement to the team and he's a lot better player than ever I thought he would be. He has one or two moments a game where his raw energy excites the group.

The interesting thing to add is that his inside handballs have improved out of sight and he's doing things I never thought him capable of.

OK ,he'll never be a champ , he's got deficiencies ,but he's worked very hard on the abilities he does have and gives it his all. So kudos to him for sticking at it and adding something to the team.
See, I'm one of those who has been pretty harsh on Matho, and now I can't make up my mind.

We got one good game, a couple of average games, and then yesterday. And I gotta say, I'm genuinely quite surprised at the positivity from yesterday.

At the end of the first quarter, I was on board. We still had the hack kicks and whatnot, but he was up and about, and he just showed up everywhere. He had an important touch at the beginning of the second, and then I dont remember seeing him. He straight up vanished. Didn't really do anything for 2 quarters. Then just as I was writing him off, we hit the 4th and he started playing again! A couple of good touches and a goal (heart in mouth for the review).

I went back and watched for Matho again during my replay, and I gotta say, I haven't changed my mind. For 2 quarters he was a behemoth, and for 2 quarters he was just nowhere.

So now i don't know what to think. Is he best 22? Schrodinger's barometer? Both best 22 and a delisting candidate at the same time? I got nothing.
 

Nathan Barley

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I still don’t think Matho gets a game in a top team and despite being 3-1 in the last 4 games I don’t think we’ve been playing like a top team. Was the right call to select him with how poorly our midfield was going but we still needed basically every midfielder to fire play really well for 3 quarters yesterday
 

dlanod

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At the end of the first quarter, I was on board. We still had the hack kicks and whatnot, but he was up and about, and he just showed up everywhere. He had an important touch at the beginning of the second, and then I dont remember seeing him. He straight up vanished. Didn't really do anything for 2 quarters. Then just as I was writing him off, we hit the 4th and he started playing again! A couple of good touches and a goal (heart in mouth for the review).
From what I could see he got sent forward for stints at a time (looking at who's up forward when the ball's coming in), which was probably a large part of his disappearance. If that was the case I'll cut him some slack given how we were pinging it in there at times - his work in that role would've been at a contest up forward, and we didn't have a heap of them.
 

M Malice

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Matho has earned his spot in the side for the remaining 2 H&A games, if he continues to play his role adequately he will play in our first final, I do still have a worry that our midfield mix could get caught out against the other top 3-4 sides. He has improved our clearance/contested footy, the spread on turnover is the question against the better sides.

Next season the heat will be on in our midfield for spots with Ashcroft, Fletcher, an improved Dev Robbo and maybe a traded mid coming in, I would expect the ones to be in the firing line would be Lyons and Matho.
 

Gadzorks

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I was in that Matho deficiencies clique, I didn't think he and Lyons could play in the same midfield... who would have thought that Fagan and co knew more about football than a 62 year old bogan wannabe footy expert who has never set foot on a footy field.

200.gif

I'm not sure they did know more. His performances had been consistent and he wasn't getting picked on those performances. Coach's didn't know what he would bring to the top level.

The Danny Daley interview was all
Matho knows his deficiencies, not a two way runner, has to work on his disposal blah blah blah. That would have been a consensus opinion of the coaches involved in the twos.

Then there were so many outs they really had no other choice and Matho did his talking in the field.

Clearly they didn't know. As others have said, how many other players (yes including Ben Keays) did they underestimate? There are players who would be in the matho boat who get delisted without getting to show what they can do. Cut throat industry that is just as prone to bias and misunderstand as any workplace.
 

Mighty Lions

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I'm not sure they did know more. His performances had been consistent and he wasn't getting picked on those performances. Coach's didn't know what he would bring to the top level.

The Danny Daley interview was all
Matho knows his deficiencies, not a two way runner, has to work on his disposal blah blah blah. That would have been a consensus opinion of the coaches involved in the twos.

Then there were so many outs they really had no other choice and Matho did his talking in the field.

Clearly they didn't know. As others have said, how many other players (yes including Ben Keays) did they underestimate? There are players who would be in the matho boat who get delisted without getting to show what they can do. Cut throat industry that is just as prone to bias and misunderstand as any workplace.
Is there any other business (other than Govt funded & run) that is different?

You make it sound like he was ignored which he wasn't / isnt.

I am happy to see Matho perform well in the last few games. But, the reason he is back is because of the obvious improvement in his game and there is still a lot of improvement needed for him to become a regular in our best 22. I hope his game continues to get better & better. At 25 years old he has a lot of footy in front of him and hopefully his improvement keeps on keeping on and he becomes a regular in our side.