Review Round 21, 2023 - Fremantle vs. Brisbane Lions

[3KZ is Football]

Hey 3kz, what'd you think of fort?

I wasn't impressed. His connection with the mids wasn't great and that could be expected first game back, but I thought he offered a lot less around the ground. And he got physically pushed around a lot. Wouldn't think that's any different between the two levels so showed a deficiency.

For me, tonight put me firmly in the BigO camp.

I thought he was scrappy and the connection with the mids doesn’t happen immediately. The thing was that he competed all game and he presented as a big body that Fremantle had to overcome. People who are knocking him might consider that he had FIVE clearances, which was second highest behind Neale who had EIGHT and three more than Dunkley who had TWO. He got the ball moving our way, which is an important part of what a ruckman needs to do. It has been said, by either M Malice martinson or both, but we need another PURE MID in the side. Fremantle walked it out of the middle too frequently. Neale is going to cop a tag every week and Dunkley can’t carry the bulk of the midfield weight. Credit to Neale, he worked into the game, with his last quarter being his best. Come finals we are going to be exposed if we are relying on Bailey and Zorko and McCluggage to fill in. For first hands on the ball and hard grunt work in and under, we need Lyons in the middle or we need to guarantee Robertson the next three games in the team. I think Fort would have been more appreciated if the mids around him had performed a little more strongly or been a little more able to contain their Fremantle opponents.

While I’m here, it would be remiss of me to not mention Zorko, who I thought was great yesterday. We need to nurse him along and get him right for finals, because he still has the capacity to make a difference. His disposal by foot is still first rate and it has the potential to really open sides up.

 

[moncon]

Stoics are a bunch of navel-gazing narcissists living rent-free in their own heads. Epicureans are much more fun! I agree about Fort: many of his tap-downs would've been swallowed up by a one of our guys on another day. Does anyone have stats on our win-loss record with Fort starting?

 

[3KZ is Football]

Stoics are a bunch of navel-gazing narcissists living rent-free in their own heads. Epicureans are much more fun! I agree about Fort: many of his tap-downs would've been swallowed up by a one of our guys on another day. Does anyone have stats on our win-loss record with Fort starting?

Won 19 and lost 6 when Fort has played in the Seniors, which is a 76% win rate. In comparison, over the same period we have won 28 and lost 13 when McInerney has been in the team, which is a 68% win rate. For 20 games in 2022 /2023 they both played, which does render theses statistics largely meaningless. In games where Fort played and McInerney was out of the side, we have won 4 and lost 1, which is an 80% win rate.

I don’t think we can draw many conclusions from this, other than he is a great second ruck and having him on the list means we don’t fall apart if McInerney doesn’t play. I actually rate McInerney highly, but he needs to continue to work on his craft.

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

I haven't watched the replay yet but here are some thoughts.

We won a tough one on the road where the opposition kicked some goals out of their ar..s. Haven't seen that too often.

Thought we lost the mid field as Seong and Young were clearly better then anything we had. Didn't put a midfielder in my votes.

The defence stood up .Payne started poorly going a low percentage mark rather than the safe spoil and coughed up their first goal. He didn't put a foot wrong for the rest of the day. Hugh, similarly , late in the game, thought he was Royce Hart, and drifted across a pack deep in defence, went the mark. dropped it and the spillage cost a goal. Play the percentages. Andrews played well but Lester is starting to intrigue me. How has he played so poorly, compared to his recent form, for MOST of his career? Are the coaches to blame?

Remember we were having a Gardiner/Lester discussion awhile back!

At the start of the last quarter I remarked to Mrs DF that to win, the tall forwards had to kick some goals. Hippy, Gunston and Joe all goaled in the last quarter which dragged us across the line.

The rucks are a problem. Oscar is handy and Fort is a handy backup but neither are all that good. i favour playing both and running a fresh ruckman all the time, with Joe also going in there. This limits flexibility elsewhere obviously, but the rucks are our weakest spot on the list.

Grundy anyone?

 

[Warwick]

Fagan and the sub - honestly did he think it was an injury sub? Tight game with tired players, midfield struggling, he waits until 5 minutes to go? We are the worst users of the sub in the comp

By the length of the straight.

I really don’t get how we haven’t worked this out yet.

 

[Viceregal]

I hear that Leicester Square is to be re-named "Lester" Square on the Monopoly Board

Actually Leicester is pronounced 'Lester'!

 

[knaf]

I thought McCluggage really stood up as a leader today.

surprised at the lack of love for Hugh in the votes.

sadly not surprised at lack of love for Zorko.

Though Prior was ok after his last shocker.

and for what it’s worth thought Lester was very good early but tired. Checked the data and it supports this opinion.

 

[Sproj]

It was great to see quite a few of the maligned guys stand up, that’s all you can ask that they do. They key now of course will be to back it up and hopefully they do.

 

[KissKiss]

I thought Zorko was really good when he got the ball in space. His kicking was great and from dangerous positions. I just worry about him at stoppages especially in the centre. He wasnt impacting there from what I saw.

There were a few times I saw us line-up with a midget squad of some combination of 3 of Neale, McCluggage, Zorko or Bailey. And we were completely blown through by the Freo mids (not that they are big either). Its worrisome trying that against a team with Gawn, Oliver and Petracca

 

[beardancer]

Had a great game. His ruckwork looks different in person than it does on TV IMO.

Yep, 5 minutes per game is superb

 

[M Malice]

I thought Zorko was really good when he got the ball in space. His kicking was great and from dangerous positions. I just worry about him at stoppages especially in the centre. He wasnt impacting there from what I saw.

There were a few times I saw us line-up with a midget squad of some combination of 3 of Neale, McCluggage, Zorko or Bailey. And we were completely blown through by the Freo mids (not that they are big either). Its worrisome trying that against a team with Gawn, Oliver and Petracca

Was just about to post the same, Zork's in form is so bloody good for us, he really can hit kicks that open the game up on offence.

So Happy he is back to near his best, fingers crossed he gets to September without another injury setback.

 

[On the quiet]

Payne could not have done anything other than what he was doing IMO, he was in a wrestle, he shouldn't be having to worry about a teammates positioning.

Froggy got that one wrong, he is not infallible 3KZ.

I thought Lester was pretty good but LIKE ALL PLAYERS made a few mistakes. One of Freo's late goals in the final Q the Lester non tackle, sticking out an arm, that allowed the player to go past him and score. Hard to say 50/50 with the Payne wrestle under the post, but Lester bumping into him arguably did not help.

 

[Gadzorks]

Beat a side that has a high ceiling away from home despite two of our main midfielders struggling to even pick up the ball without fumbling. So thumbs up.

fumbling - weather was good so not the cause.

very unusual for lachie to fumble.

For a clean pick up need to get down low.

Lachie was smashed physically last week. Wonder if he is sore/carrying a sore lower back or hips.

 

[Milux]

Most pleasing thing for me was winning ugly. Took some learnings from that Melbourne game and were brave enough to execute. Brave enough to keep playing the game on its merit. Good win.

 

[beardancer]

Watch it again. Payne was in his road in the end. Lester was closing to try and make the contest. Only superman could have made the contest and spoiled over the top. Payne had the bigger body and he needed to do more.

I agree Payne has slipped back to being passive and reactive.

 

[Gadzorks]

I thought he was scrappy and the connection with the mids doesn’t happen immediately. The thing was that he competed all game and he presented as a big body that Fremantle had to overcome. People who are knocking him might consider that he had FIVE clearances, which was second highest behind Neale who had EIGHT and three more than Dunkley who had TWO. He got the ball moving our way, which is an important part of what a ruckman needs to do. It has been said, by either M Malice martinson or both, but we need another PURE MID in the side. Fremantle walked it out of the middle too frequently. Neale is going to cop a tag every week and Dunkley can’t carry the bulk of the midfield weight. Credit to Neale, he worked into the game, with his last quarter being his best. Come finals we are going to be exposed if we are relying on Bailey and Zorko and McCluggage to fill in. For first hands on the ball and hard grunt work in and under, we need Lyons in the middle or we need to guarantee Robertson the next three games in the team. I think Fort would have been more appreciated if the mids around him had performed a little more strongly or been a little more able to contain their Fremantle opponents.

While I’m here, it would be remiss of me to not mention Zorko, who I thought was great yesterday. We need to nurse him along and get him right for finals, because he still has the capacity to make a difference. His disposal by foot is still first rate and it has the potential to really open sides up.

I didn't think about the center clearance stats when reflecting on forts performance. Big miss eh.

What are big o clearance stats (obviously I'm lazy)?

It's too late in the season and he wouldn't be selected anyway, but I'd have loved to see Matho in with dunkley for a small run of games.

Matho to take the physical brunt and taggers out. Then dunkley and neale left to do their magic stuff.

Matho's only role to move from clearance to clearance and wrecking ball. Use his weapon tool he drops in exhaustion (cause the contact stuff is was more tiring than running all day).

 

[MSB ROYS]

Yep, 5 minutes per game is superb

It was superb .

 

[Mighty Lions]

RE Dev - at home with family and friends.

Out of contact player.

Didn't want the fresh legs till five minutes to go.

Dev will be hanging around WA for a few days with opportunity for other other teams to chat to him.

Had to do something. Talking up five minutes of play is very little, but I guess it was something. Maybe.

WOW, why would you say something so negative like this with no truth to any of it after a real gutsy win that was critical for our club?
As a last minute decision, half the squad flew home on the red eye last night and the other half fly home this morning. Dev will be back in Brissy with the squad and isnt "hanging around WA for a few days with opportunity for other other teams to chat to him."

As much as Dev is (understandably) not happy playing in the VFL and is desperate to play more games and more time in the AFL, he understands there is significant competition for a place in the 22 and also has clear communication from the club as to what he needs to improve on to get that regular spot locked in. He also is a smart lad and understands that right now there is a lifetime opportunity to play for a club that could win a flag this year and at least a couple of more years from now. (which is what 99% footballers ultimately play the game for.)

Just stuns me that a negative comment like that comes after a real gutsy win that all Lions supporters should be celebrating and appreciating.

 

[Section 5]

I didn't think about the center clearance stats when reflecting on forts performance. Big miss eh.

What are big o clearance stats (obviously I'm lazy)?

It's too late in the season and he wouldn't be selected anyway, but I'd have loved to see Matho in with dunkley for a small run of games.

Matho to take the physical brunt and taggers out. Then dunkley and neale left to do their magic stuff.

Matho's only role to move from clearance to clearance and wrecking ball. Use his weapon tool he drops in exhaustion (cause the contact stuff is was more tiring than running all day).

Here you go you lazy person you

 

[McIvor]

I agree Payne has slipped back to being passive and reactive.

Jack is my man but I think he’s been injured the past six weeks and like what Warwick said somewhere, we aren’t resting senior players like Lachie who also needs a break.

As for Payne, I think since his ankle injury six odd weeks ago he hasn’t been right. Maybe what needs to be done requires surgery which is why they re just patching him together until off season.

If a week or two off is needed, I don’t know why we don’t do it, it’s not like we don’t have a150+ game player waiting on Gardiner. If Lach needs a rest, get JL in for a week against Crows particularly with Crouch playing for them.

 

[Gadzorks]

WOW, why would you say something so negative like this with no truth to any of it after a real gutsy win that was critical for our club?
As a last minute decision, half the squad flew home on the red eye last night and the other half fly home this morning. Dev will be back in Brissy with the squad and isnt "hanging around WA for a few days with opportunity for other other teams to chat to him."

As much as Dev is (understandably) not happy playing in the VFL and is desperate to play more games and more time in the AFL, he understands there is significant competition for a place in the 22 and also has clear communication from the club as to what he needs to improve on to get that regular spot locked in. He also is a smart lad and understands that right now there is a lifetime opportunity to play for a club that could win a flag this year and at least a couple of more years from now. (which is what 99% footballers ultimately play the game for.)

Just stuns me that a negative comment like that comes after a real gutsy win that all Lions supporters should be celebrating and appreciating.

Ahhhh. Didn't mean to hit a nerve.

I was actually being critical of the coaches not getting Dev on the field until the last five minutes to go. Thought that was a mistake and he deserved more game time.

Obviously didn't nail the post. Perhaps my sarcastic writing skills aren't up to scratch.

Wasn't thinking dev would go looking at other clubs. I think highly enough of him that I believe other clubs would come looking for him. And if he is there it is an opportunity for them to try to butter him up.

RE staying in wa - Neale is spending a few days (or so it was started in his post game interview and he didn't say not happening) and often players do take the opportunity to stay for a day or two with family. So I assumed he dev would. Bigfooty is full of assumptions and I obviously got that wrong (based on your knowledge).

As I said in an earlier post - losing dev would be bad. I really rate him and think he is a future gun.

 

[Section 5]

Regarding the clearances figures i posted above.
You can see why coaches want to try and shut down Neale

 

[ImAFreeMan]

I’m all for the win and I’m not usually one to be negative, although our midfield has looked so incredibly poor the past two games, continual clearances where Freo/Gold Coast players streamed out the center with ease!

We are just lucky we have a great defence, because I would not want to be defending these entries.

Happy all the forwards stood up today Eric/Rayner were great presenting up the ground and providing an option

It was nice to see Charlie get a reward for effort and the continual presence of Daniher

My god Ah Chee has been great since returning and plays a vital role and how good is Wilmot

Worried about our ruckman situation though, if Grundy was a possibility we’d be silly not to have a dip


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mighty Lions]

Ahhhh. Didn't mean to hit a nerve.

I was actually being critical of the coaches not getting Dev on the field until the last five minutes to go. Thought that was a mistake and he deserved more game time.

Obviously didn't nail the post. Perhaps my sarcastic writing skills aren't up to scratch.

Wasn't thinking dev would go looking at other clubs. I think highly enough of him that I believe other clubs would come looking for him. And if he is there it is an opportunity for them to try to butter him up.

RE staying in wa - Neale is spending a few days (or so it was started in his post game interview and he didn't say not happening) and often players do take the opportunity to stay for a day or two with family. So I assumed he dev would. Bigfooty is full of assumptions and I obviously got that wrong (based on your knowledge).

As I said in an earlier post - losing dev would be bad. I really rate him and think he is a future gun.

No nerve hit, just shaking my head at such a negative post rather than celebrating what was a good and important win...which you didn't pick up on either. My bad.

 

[scott_the_man]

I haven't watched the replay yet but here are some thoughts.

We won a tough one on the road where the opposition kicked some goals out of their ar..s. Haven't seen that too often.

Thought we lost the mid field as Seong and Young were clearly better then anything we had. Didn't put a midfielder in my votes.

The defence stood up .Payne started poorly going a low percentage mark rather than the safe spoil and coughed up their first goal. He didn't put a foot wrong for the rest of the day. Hugh, similarly , late in the game, thought he was Royce Hart, and drifted across a pack deep in defence, went the mark. dropped it and the spillage cost a goal. Play the percentages. Andrews played well but Lester is starting to intrigue me. How has he played so poorly, compared to his recent form, for MOST of his career? Are the coaches to blame?

Remember we were having a Gardiner/Lester discussion awhile back!

At the start of the last quarter I remarked to Mrs DF that to win, the tall forwards had to kick some goals. Hippy, Gunston and Joe all goaled in the last quarter which dragged us across the line.

The rucks are a problem. Oscar is handy and Fort is a handy backup but neither are all that good. i favour playing both and running a fresh ruckman all the time, with Joe also going in there. This limits flexibility elsewhere obviously, but the rucks are our weakest spot on the list.

Grundy anyone?

I thought McCluggages mark attempt was awesome. He was very close to clunking it and if he did everyone would be apllauding him for his corageous game winning mark in a huge moment.

We needed our leaders to step up when the game was there to be won and Clug certainly tried to.