Review Round 21, 2023 - Fremantle vs. Brisbane Lions

[On the quiet]

Jack is my man but I think he’s been injured the past six weeks and like what Warwick said somewhere, we aren’t resting senior players like Lachie who also needs a break.

As for Payne, I think since his ankle injury six odd weeks ago he hasn’t been right. Maybe what needs to be done requires surgery which is why they re just patching him together until off season.

If a week or two off is needed, I don’t know why we don’t do it, it’s not like we don’t have a150+ game player waiting on Gardiner. If Lach needs a rest, get JL in for a week against Crows particularly with Crouch playing for them.

Tex and Fogarty not overly tall and neither are the Pies forwards, the following game. So should Gardiner come in? This is Payne's first full year in the AFL in a key position, and does appear to be hampered with an ankle/foot. I also suspect Charlie suffered an injury a few weeks back, when landing awkwardly in the Melbourne game, but can we afford to rest them? If end of season surgery is required for any of our Lions player is a rest going to achieve anything?

Jasper is going to be a very good player, but I would try and freshen him up and have him as sub with Dev coming in this week. IMO with Ashcroft out, Dev should be in the side permanently, played a key role (as did Linc) in getting a turn over that lead to a match winning goal late in the 4th Q.

 

[lionsrules]

im glad we won. I watched the replay late last night. ts that time of the season where you have to grind out a win and just get the 4 points and we did that. Its the longest trip in the AFL and freo had beaten the cats at the cattery so they were peacocking and if we are honest about the situation most of us agree that we should have an extra mid and drop gunston and move rayner to third tall. We had Fort play his first game as the main ruck this year. Oscars ankle injury is a blessing for him to get his breath back and be ready for finals.
History shows your last 4 games before finals define your finals campaign. we are 1/1 .... port now 0-4 last month and magpies 0-2 straight after i asked the question on here if the magpies could keep their wins up for another 2 months and here we are.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Tex and Fogarty not overly tall and neither are the Pies forwards, the following game. So should Gardiner come in? This is Payne's first full year in the AFL in a key position, and does appear to be hampered with an ankle/foot. I also suspect Charlie suffered an injury a few weeks back, when landing awkwardly in the Melbourne game, but can we afford to rest them? If end of season surgery is required for any of our Lions player is a rest going to achieve anything?

Jasper is going to be a very good player, but I would try and freshen him up and have him as sub with Dev coming in this week. IMO with Ashcroft out, Dev should be in the side permanently, played a key role (as did Linc) in getting a turn over that lead to a match winning goal late in the 4th Q.

I wouldn’t change a thing in our backline unless we desperately had to. I would prefer to manage Payne by lightening / tapering his training load. If it was the 80’s or 90’s he would spend some time in the Hyperbaric Chamber. Surely there must be non invasive therapies to help get him going. If worst comes to worst, I’d give him a spell in the final round and give Joyce a run. That said, if it is just a niggle, he could rest this week and Joyce could come in. Then we could get Payne right for the Collingwood game.

Payne is an absolute gun and a vital part of our defense because we have got his role right and he can play to his strengths. The inclusion and form of Wilmot, Coleman, Starcevich, McKenna and some other bloke whose name escapes me, has meant that Payne can focus on dominating in the air where he is super strong and leave the contested ground ball work to those who are more suited to that work. Jed Adcock has done a fantastic job as our Defensive Coach this year.

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

WOW, why would you say something so negative like this with no truth to any of it after a real gutsy win that was critical for our club?
As a last minute decision, half the squad flew home on the red eye last night and the other half fly home this morning. Dev will be back in Brissy with the squad and isnt "hanging around WA for a few days with opportunity for other other teams to chat to him."

As much as Dev is (understandably) not happy playing in the VFL and is desperate to play more games and more time in the AFL, he understands there is significant competition for a place in the 22 and also has clear communication from the club as to what he needs to improve on to get that regular spot locked in. He also is a smart lad and understands that right now there is a lifetime opportunity to play for a club that could win a flag this year and at least a couple of more years from now. (which is what 99% footballers ultimately play the game for.)

Just stuns me that a negative comment like that comes after a real gutsy win that all Lions supporters should be celebrating and appreciating.

I wouldn't take it to heart , they are just passionate supporters.
People have their own ideas on players , coaches and things like the sub rule and how and when to use it.
For what it is worth I thought when it was 6 minutes or whatever it was to go , and Dev was not on the field , Don't put him on now, FFS, the game was too hot . Anyway he came on.
Could of come on earlier, hey it worked out and full credit to the lad , who made perfect decisions considering he just stepped into that much heat .

On the game .
Thought gunners played a great game, not much about him in here.
Maybe our players should trust him more when he is on the lead .
Thought we deserved the win , with so many playing their guts out.
Still question marks on Bailey as a mid especialy at center bounces , would like to see fort again ,but looks a bit reactive most of the night so was no better than Oscar . Until he.
Did seem to work into the game and possibly with a continued game there could be a better connection with the mids.
Special mention to Joe, McCarthey, Zorks, Hippy, Charlie.
Also thought Andrews had a great skippers game.
Edit: Talk about short term memory loss.
How could I not mention Ah Chee.
He was most impressive, had some gutsy marks and contests.

 

[martinson]

im glad we won. I watched the replay late last night. ts that time of the season where you have to grind out a win and just get the 4 points and we did that. Its the longest trip in the AFL and freo had beaten the cats at the cattery so they were peacocking and if we are honest about the situation most of us agree that we should have an extra mid and drop gunston and move rayner to third tall. We had Fort play his first game as the main ruck this year. Oscars ankle injury is a blessing for him to get his breath back and be ready for finals.
History shows your last 4 games before finals define your finals campaign. we are 1/1 .... port now 0-4 last month and magpies 0-2 straight after i asked the question on here if the magpies could keep their wins up for another 2 months and here we are.

With their draw Melbourne could get into the box seat.

Payne and Cameron don't look 100% and Neale couldn't seem to bend over for a large part of the game but they all contributed and we wouldn't have won had they not played.

Most teams are in the same boat this time of the year. Collingwood's chances took a nosedive on the weekend and let's see if others can step up to fill the void left by Daicos.

Our draw isn't too bad with 2 home games out of 3.

 

[lionsrules]

With their draw Melbourne could get into the box seat.

Payne and Cameron don't look 100% and Neale couldn't seem to bend over for a large part of the game but they all contributed and we wouldn't have won had they not played.

Most teams are in the same boat this time of the year. Collingwood's chances took a nosedive on the weekend and let's see if others can step up to fill the void left by Daicos.

Our draw isn't too bad with 2 home games out of 3.

I actually don’t rate the dees draw as favourable. Carlton this weekend who are the inform team of the comp and Sydney at the scg in the final round which could define a top 8 berth for them. Sydney have the wood on the dees last few games and those last two encounters were at the G.
We have two home games left and a marvel game against the pies who are now beatable. If cats beat magpies this weekend and we do the following weekend we will be minor premiers

 

[3KZ is Football]

With their draw Melbourne could get into the box seat.

Payne and Cameron don't look 100% and Neale couldn't seem to bend over for a large part of the game but they all contributed and we wouldn't have won had they not played.

Most teams are in the same boat this time of the year. Collingwood's chances took a nosedive on the weekend and let's see if others can step up to fill the void left by Daicos.

Our draw isn't too bad with 2 home games out of 3.

Collingwood at Docklands is very winnable too. A big statement win in that game would really set us up.

 

[martinson]

I actually don’t rate the dees draw as favourable. Carlton this weekend who are the inform team of the comp and Sydney at the scg in the final round which could define a top 8 berth for them. Sydney have the wood on the dees last few games and those last two encounters were at the G.
We have two home games left and a marvel game against the pies who are now beatable. If cats beat magpies this weekend and we do the following weekend we will be minor premiers

I love optimistic takes.

Minor premiers would be something of a miracle the way things were looking.

But if everything went our way I suppose it's possible.

 

[Dalions]

I love optimistic takes.

Minor premiers would be something of a miracle the way things were looking.

But if everything went our way I suppose it's possible.

Not particularly sure we would deserve that with our mental fragility in games that we should be winning easy enough.
But I do think that we still deserve second spot on the ladder especially if we can close out the year well.

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

I thought McCluggages mark attempt was awesome. He was very close to clunking it and if he did everyone would be apllauding him for his corageous game winning mark in a huge moment.

We needed our leaders to step up when the game was there to be won and Clug certainly tried to.

My point is that it was a low percentage play. He had the sit and a punch would have put the ball 20 yards to the boundary
Wish he was Royce Hart though

 

[JasRulz63]

I thought McCluggages mark attempt was awesome. He was very close to clunking it and if he did everyone would be apllauding him for his corageous game winning mark in a huge moment.

We needed our leaders to step up when the game was there to be won and Clug certainly tried to.

He worked really hard to get into a position to even compete for the mark. He was at the contest when Freo had it across left half back and switched it to the other wing. He made ground from there to nearly take a great mark.

 

[martinson]

Not particularly sure we would deserve that with our mental fragility in games that we should be winning easy enough.
But I do think that we still deserve second spot on the ladder especially if we can close out the year well.

I need to get that Melbourne game out if my head because clearly we should've won and we'd be smoking the pipe now if we had. Yesterday we could've easily lost but we didn't and are back in the hunt.

With Port and the Pies losing some form there's an opening there if we grasp it. I do think September will be a different story and expect both of those teams to out up strong showings. Not much between the teams this year and even those 5-10 at the moment are capable.

 

[luthor]

Surely the club is trolling with one of its nominees for the weekly game changer:

View attachment 1767043

AFL website has Neale as our best, then Hugh, Berry, Rayner, Cameron and Linc.

Neither Joe or Call rated a mention.

Bit of a head scratcher for me too. Lachie did have good last quarter but he was mostly well held and had some bad moments with fumbling ground balls that he would normally snaffle.

So "best" for is.....nah!!

Berry was the standout in my view

On SM-G973F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[On the quiet]

im glad we won. I watched the replay late last night. ts that time of the season where you have to grind out a win and just get the 4 points and we did that. Its the longest trip in the AFL and freo had beaten the cats at the cattery so they were peacocking and if we are honest about the situation most of us agree that we should have an extra mid and drop gunston and move rayner to third tall. We had Fort play his first game as the main ruck this year. Oscars ankle injury is a blessing for him to get his breath back and be ready for finals.
History shows your last 4 games before finals define your finals campaign. we are 1/1 .... port now 0-4 last month and magpies 0-2 straight after i asked the question on here if the magpies could keep their wins up for another 2 months and here we are.

yep agree about the pies, I posted a few weeks back, I wanted them to keep winning until we played them, as it is hard getting up each week and the added pressure of frequently coming from behind in such an even comp: Unfortunately for them they have lost one of their main offensive weapons and a structural back, so at Marvel, I give the Lions at least a 50/50 chance. But first things first, crows won't be easy even though it is at the GABBA.

 

[lionraven]

Can you two stop talking about Lester? Sheesh!

Wait ... that's how you say his name? I have been calling him Liechestuh the whole time. Hopefully Dev Robertin and Cam Raynor play well jist Lester

 

[p4p1]

Not particularly sure we would deserve that with our mental fragility in games that we should be winning easy enough.
But I do think that we still deserve second spot on the ladder especially if we can close out the year well.

It would be well deserved if we won the minor premiership. Other top 4 teams are stumbling or have stumbled, not just us.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Wait ... that's how you say his name? I have been calling him Liechestuh the whole time. Hopefully Dev Robertin and Cam Raynor play well jist Lester

Are you Kelli Underwood?

 

[OldLion]

THose 2 quarters v

It was a plucky win.

Still battling for form, but the desire that was lacking last week was evident today from first bounce till final siren. Ah, lord, if we can rediscover whatever that was we had for half a game vs Melbourne, there’s a flag there just begging to be taken.

Cal Ah Chee probably having the best string of games of his career.

Keen for some rewengay against the croze next week.

Those 2 quarters v Demons were our best form so far - makes that loss so galling. Close but no cigar without Ashcroft. He's got that Simon Black clean hands that makes everyone look great.

 

[OldLion]

I haven't watched the replay yet but here are some thoughts.

We won a tough one on the road where the opposition kicked some goals out of their ar..s. Haven't seen that too often.

Thought we lost the mid field as Seong and Young were clearly better then anything we had. Didn't put a midfielder in my votes.

The defence stood up .Payne started poorly going a low percentage mark rather than the safe spoil and coughed up their first goal. He didn't put a foot wrong for the rest of the day. Hugh, similarly , late in the game, thought he was Royce Hart, and drifted across a pack deep in defence, went the mark. dropped it and the spillage cost a goal. Play the percentages. Andrews played well but Lester is starting to intrigue me. How has he played so poorly, compared to his recent form, for MOST of his career? Are the coaches to blame?

Remember we were having a Gardiner/Lester discussion awhile back!

At the start of the last quarter I remarked to Mrs DF that to win, the tall forwards had to kick some goals. Hippy, Gunston and Joe all goaled in the last quarter which dragged us across the line.

The rucks are a problem. Oscar is handy and Fort is a handy backup but neither are all that good. i favour playing both and running a fresh ruckman all the time, with Joe also going in there. This limits flexibility elsewhere obviously, but the rucks are our weakest spot on the list.

Grundy anyone?

We just get smashed by any really classy big guy. Especally Gawn. In fact - always Gawn. He's inside Oscar's head. Something's got to change.

 

[Lion_LegacyXL]

Feel like we needed to grind out an ugly close win from behind away against adversity to build some resilience and mental fortitude within the group. Had we won by 10+ goals it would have likely grew their egos in a detrimental way.

 

[Nunez]

Yep, 5 minutes per game is superb

Surely you agree that Joe was great yesterday, right?

 

[Quested]

Hey 3kz, what'd you think of fort?

I wasn't impressed. His connection with the mids wasn't great and that could be expected first game back, but I thought he offered a lot less around the ground. And he got physically pushed around a lot. Wouldn't think that's any different between the two levels so showed a deficiency.

For me, tonight put me firmly in the BigO camp.

I still feel that Big O is toward the bottom end of the 1st rucks in the comp, but I'll happily admit to being wrong after tonight. Fort is an excellent 2nd ruck and I think shows his best when Oscar is carrying the load. As a first ruck it just isn't there

 

[StevoJenkins]

As much as Dev is (understandably) not happy playing in the VFL and is desperate to play more games and more time in the AFL, he understands there is significant competition for a place in the 22 and also has clear communication from the club as to what he needs to improve on to get that regular spot locked in. He also is a smart lad and understands that right now there is a lifetime opportunity to play for a club that could win a flag this year and at least a couple of more years from now. (which is what 99% footballers ultimately play the game for.)

Just stuns me that a negative comment like that comes after a real gutsy win that all Lions supporters should be celebrating and appreciating.

3 Q's on this one then.
Going to keep them vague as I know you probably can't give out full answers. You can answer in hot/warm or cold/brisk if you want.

1. Is Ralphy on the ball when he's mentioned that Dev is in talks to resign for a couple more years?
2. Am I right in assuming that his improvement needs to be on his disposal?
3. How close is he to securing a spot in the 22?

Would like to see Dev, Sharp and Smith get a real go next year, but Dev is the one with question mark around him being OOC.

 

[3KZ is Football]

AFL website has Neale as our best, then Hugh, Berry, Rayner, Cameron and Linc.

Neither Joe or Call rated a mention.

Bit of a head scratcher for me too. Lachie did have good last quarter but he was mostly well held and had some bad moments with fumbling ground balls that he would normally snaffle.

So "best" for is.....nah!!

Berry was the standout in my view

On SM-G973F using BigFooty.com mobile app

I agree about Berry. I had questioned his performances of late, but he really stepped up yesterday. That spoil was a goal saver, because Fremantle were out. He was also sticking his tackles and showing real desperation. Perhaps he got a rev up during the week, perhaps he just stood up and showed leadership of his own accord, maybe his shoulder was feeling stronger, who knows, but he certainly brought his A+ game and reminded everyone what he can do. He is ‘second man picked’ if he can play like that regularly.

 

[On the quiet]

I wouldn’t change a thing in our backline unless we desperately had to. I would prefer to manage Payne by lightening / tapering his training load. If it was the 80’s or 90’s he would spend some time in the Hyperbaric Chamber. Surely there must be non invasive therapies to help get him going. If worst comes to worst, I’d give him a spell in the final round and give Joyce a run. That said, if it is just a niggle, he could rest this week and Joyce could come in. Then we could get Payne right for the Collingwood game.

Payne is an absolute gun and a vital part of our defense because we have got his role right and he can play to his strengths. The inclusion and form of Wilmot, Coleman, Starcevich, McKenna and some other bloke whose name escapes me, has meant that Payne can focus on dominating in the air where he is super strong and leave the contested ground ball work to those who are more suited to that work. Jed Adcock has done a fantastic job as our Defensive Coach this year.

Hopefully St.Kilda have given up by the last round, and Harris or Gardiner or possibly Joyce can take Max King, if Payne rested.

I wouldn’t change a thing in our backline unless we desperately had to. I would prefer to manage Payne by lightening / tapering his training load. If it was the 80’s or 90’s he would spend some time in the Hyperbaric Chamber. Surely there must be non invasive therapies to help get him going. If worst comes to worst, I’d give him a spell in the final round and give Joyce a run. That said, if it is just a niggle, he could rest this week and Joyce could come in. Then we could get Payne right for the Collingwood game.

Payne is an absolute gun and a vital part of our defense because we have got his role right and he can play to his strengths. The inclusion and form of Wilmot, Coleman, Starcevich, McKenna and some other bloke whose name escapes me, has meant that Payne can focus on dominating in the air where he is super strong and leave the contested ground ball work to those who are more suited to that work. Jed Adcock has done a fantastic job as our Defensive Coach this year.

I think you should leave praise such as "absolute gun" for your Lester post. For where he is at with his development, Payne has been impressive, especially the first half of the season. Harris is our #1 KPD and no doubt remunerated accordingly, thus comparing Payne with other teams #2 KPD types, I would have him right up there.