Autopsy Round 21 = Hawthorn 97-78 Collingwood

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Yes potentially, he helped bring them whether he scouted them is another story. Still don’t think anybody could have coached the list any better with everything he had to endure.
He shouldn't have got anywhere near a flag after the Gubby fiasco, years later we are still finding out the real cost. Kills me that Wells and Mayne were the big cherries on the premiership pie taking up so much money and so many years it stopped us recruiting any players that would put us over the top. They lost that flag at list management.
 
It’s true. Everybody lambasted Buckley for playing ‘defensive’, what are you supposed to do with a team that has such poor skills? Kick yourself to death?

Harvey better resort to playing more defensive if he wants any chance of becoming coach. The media and peanuts on here don’t have a clue.
Who recruited those with poor skills....
 

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Can’t play ballistic football every week -its far to taxing and therefore unsustainable.
Need a balance between playing fast and slow to have an executable and reliable game plan from week to week.

That’s the challenge for our next Coach.

There could be some truth in this. Particularly without match hardened AFL bodies. Even those experienced teams who have grown together for years sometimes have trouble keeping up intensity, eg Bulldogs on weekend or Melbourne against us.

We (Pies SUPPORTERS) should be happy with the occasional nice win, as long as everything continues to trend the right way long term. Hard to argue that it’s not.

There’s another thing I have seen emerge this year, and that’s teams disproportionately getting slated for losing.

Here’s the formula:

1). Team loses, usually by getting outplayed by another team (that’s called ‘sport’)

2). Garry Lyon and co find footage of a few tackles not sticking and / or players not manning up properly.

3). They go to town on said team, getting VERY personal, calling them lazy and not caring enough, horrible effort (eg west coast last week against pies).

Why isn’t it okay for a team to get outplayed from time to time without all the drama? Not enough kudos goes to the winning team. And everything gets heaped onto the losing team as though it’s the darkest day in history.

I’m pretty sure this trend has gotten worse this year.




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If Clarko and his pre planning wasn't worth 5+ goals out there today I'll go heeeee.
We were out-coached from the beginning and were never in it.
By the end we'd worked out how to get it deep enough into our forward line to score....but the horse had bolted! They tagged JDG (Shields), Mitchell killed Tay and they double teamed Grundy and our forwards. They scored on our errors.
Those sorts of coaching structures (tagging our dangerous ball winners, clogging defences and run from behind to score) kill us everytime and Clarko has been orchestrating that stuff against us for years.
Our players were out played....but our coaches had their pants pulled down.
And Simpson was outcoached by Harvey the week before. As many say, Harvey can't stop players from fumbling and dropping simple marks nor can he prevent the terrible turnovers. We lost by 19 points. Hawks deserved their win but the Clarkson hype is ridiculous. He is not the messiah. His boys have copped more floggings than we have this year.
 
Hine, Walsh, Eddie, the board, Buckley. The point of my post is that Buckley is and was a great coach. He did a lot with a defective list.
He created the defective list. The defective list was a minute away from a flag. One could argue he failed to get the best out of a good list with his negative, dour, robotic, defensive mindset.
 
Well, that's what happens when opposition apply pressure and take away the one thing we were doing against WCE.
Shows, in part, just how deplorable WCE were last week to let us do that.
Having said that, we didn't take it on as much yesterday.
Went back to bombing it long and not hitting lead ups, despite them being there for the taking.
Saw numerous opportunities to take the risk into the middle and we chose to bomb long into F50.

When you look at it for where we are, no coach, lots of inexperienced players, 2 games to go and the year from hell (which started last year) is over.....can understand the lack of effort.
Not excusing it. Just thinking that, being 2-5% off is just enough not to make the extra 5m etc etc.

Noble just won't put his body on the line. Cost us again and again. Loves the outside ball and run, but horrible 1v1. Just not long term for mine when the heat comes onto the game.

IQ. I wonder if HB is his position? i'd like to get him further up the ground if we can where he can use his bigger body. At least to see how he copes with it.

Grundy- i've been saying this for a while. I want Grundy to play as a "ruck rover" and let someone else ruck in the centre square. Then let him play ruck and send whomever else fwd / back. Just the big body in the middle might be interesting to see how it works. Worth a try. He's a very unique player. So do something very different and make the oppo coaches think.

Gin - When he made his debut, felt that the only certainties in life was death, taxes....and Gin raising his arm to get high contact. Going to get a name for himself and unless he becomes a star like Selwood, they will stop paying it. Still, he has tricks and apart from 1 fumble i thought he was very clean (great 15M handball in the last through the middle).

Olly - hmmmm....lets put that down to a great learning day! dropped plenty. no game awareness in one of them (albeit we got a goal anyway i think)....lots of good examples where he got to the right spot (huge tick), but made basic mistakes. Still, i'm a big fan.

JT - think he's saved by our draft hand this year. No point removing him from the list and bringing in pick 1028982782 ! but really should be depth. Or played further up the ground (is no worse in the midfield than others running through there). But that's me trying to find a spot that probably isn't there.

Mcrae - tick. Did all you can ask in the middle.

Mcreery - wasn't up to the pace. Stupid to hit people late and he'll get suspended for a sling tackle pretty soon....but a good learning day for him as well.

Overall we're just playing out the year....like the look of the kids overall, plenty of improvement to come and i feel if we weren't so predicable to play against....it can turn pretty quickly!

Really feel its time to play Wilson and Lynch for the last 2 games. They deserve the opportunity.
 
Holy sh*t the hate to Grundy is unreal. He was by far the best ruckman on ground, playing against 2 quality opponents. Took solid marks. Set up our clearances superbly with taps and grunt work. It's not his fault we win nearly every centre bounce in the first quarter and lose the game to turnover.

Today shows why we need a full coaching clean out. We just let them have their way, and some of our senior players should be ashamed with their decision making. When our first year players are hitting up better passes than Sidey and Thomas it's a big problem.
I think the issue with Grundy is we have so much money parked in one of the least impactful positions. He is a unicorn and a great player, but I feel as long as we are carrying his wage we will never contend.
 
We were made to look far, far better than we actually are last week. West Coast were putrid. The Hawks came with a simple game plan. Block up the middle of the ground and pressure our ball carrier. They held their shape in defence and we fell back in to old habits by kicking it straight down their throats, time and time again. They smashed us on the rebound as we didn't come with any defensive intent.

Plenty of positives though. We've nailed the 5 picks we had in the top 30 of the draft last year. Ginnivan is going to be really fun to watch. However, I do think umpires and opposition alike will start to cotton on to his tactic of getting tackled high.

Knowing our form line, we'll come out and beat Brisbane this week. I'd dearly love to knock Essendon out of the 8 in the final round.
 

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Grundy isn't a forwards backside.

He's a ruckman and for some reason become a whipping boy. How about we put some blame on the midfield showing no accountability yesterday.
Drives me nuts. Our "leaders" in Adams and Sidebottom totally failed to step up, yet very little criticism is leveled at them. Adams and Sidebottom are both on pretty expensive deals too
 
Incorrect. He did a tremendous job extracting the maximum out of a defective list however.
sorry to interrupt your conversation but we were 5 goals up in that GF, he choked in the box and went defensive. no matter what is said about umpiring by many, IMHO you don't lose a GF after being 5 up, you do whatever it takes to win.
was his list as well.
 
sorry to interrupt your conversation but we were 5 goals up in that GF, he choked in the box and went defensive. no matter what is said about umpiring by many, IMHO you don't lose a GF after being 5 up, you do whatever it takes to win.
was his list as well.
We kicked the first 2 or was it 3 goals in the last quarter, that doesn’t happen if you’re playing defensive. We were knackered and run off our feet, the players can also make the call on whether they play direct or keepings off. That was the play from what was recorded in the box.

Absolutely he takes some blame for the make up of the list. But the question at hand was not his list management skills and the ability to influence and work in a fundamentally broken system, but his ability to coach.With the players he had, and their injury profiles it was not possible to extract anything more than what he did.
 
We kicked the first 2 or was it 3 goals in the last quarter, that doesn’t happen if you’re playing defensive. We were knackered and run off our feet, the players can also make the call on whether they play direct or keepings off. That was the play from what was recorded in the box.

Absolutely he takes some blame for the make up of the list. But the question at hand was not his list management skills and the ability to influence and work in a fundamentally broken system, but his ability to coach.With the players he had, and their injury profiles it was not possible to extract anything more than what he did.
i respect your opinion as it is a good one, just don't agree with you.
 
There could be some truth in this. Particularly without match hardened AFL bodies. Even those experienced teams who have grown together for years sometimes have trouble keeping up intensity, eg Bulldogs on weekend or Melbourne against us.

We (Pies SUPPORTERS) should be happy with the occasional nice win, as long as everything continues to trend the right way long term. Hard to argue that it’s not.

There’s another thing I have seen emerge this year, and that’s teams disproportionately getting slated for losing.

Here’s the formula:

1). Team loses, usually by getting outplayed by another team (that’s called ‘sport’)

2). Garry Lyon and co find footage of a few tackles not sticking and / or players not manning up properly.

3). They go to town on said team, getting VERY personal, calling them lazy and not caring enough, horrible effort (eg west coast last week against pies).

Why isn’t it okay for a team to get outplayed from time to time without all the drama? Not enough kudos goes to the winning team. And everything gets heaped onto the losing team as though it’s the darkest day in history.

I’m pretty sure this trend has gotten worse this year.




Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
True. When a team gets flogged by over ten goals, particularly by a team many rungs below them, then the media roasting is warranted. However this has become a weekly trend. I agree that it is over the top and used far too often by media heads trying to get attention. I thought our efforts to halftime were poor. The team remedied this to some degree and actually got into a winnable situation with ten minutes remaining when they could have thrown in the towel and copped a 12 goal drubbing as many sides have done this year. Funnily enough, most of the sides above us have copped at least one ( the Tigers, Gold Coast and saints have had multiple floggings) embarrassing flogging this year. We are yet to register one.
 
There could be some truth in this. Particularly without match hardened AFL bodies. Even those experienced teams who have grown together for years sometimes have trouble keeping up intensity, eg Bulldogs on weekend or Melbourne against us.

We (Pies SUPPORTERS) should be happy with the occasional nice win, as long as everything continues to trend the right way long term. Hard to argue that it’s not.

There’s another thing I have seen emerge this year, and that’s teams disproportionately getting slated for losing.

Here’s the formula:

1). Team loses, usually by getting outplayed by another team (that’s called ‘sport’)

2). Garry Lyon and co find footage of a few tackles not sticking and / or players not manning up properly.

3). They go to town on said team, getting VERY personal, calling them lazy and not caring enough, horrible effort (eg west coast last week against pies).

Why isn’t it okay for a team to get outplayed from time to time without all the drama? Not enough kudos goes to the winning team. And everything gets heaped onto the losing team as though it’s the darkest day in history.

I’m pretty sure this trend has gotten worse this year.




Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com


Fantastic summary...media has a lot to answer for eh??
 
Grundy isn't a forwards backside.

He's a ruckman and for some reason become a whipping boy. How about we put some blame on the midfield showing no accountability yesterday.
I agree Grundy doesn’t have any forward smarts. I’d play him as a roaming CHF that gets up the field and marks the ball around the ground rather than a stay at home forward.

Our midfield is melted but that’s a seperate topic.
 
How is the statement about him being responsible for our list incorrect? I suppose he had nothing to do with the cutting of a number of premiership players early in his tenure?
How is the new coach responsible for Nobles contract extension? Buckley came out and said he was unaware that Mayne was approved to be signed. He contributes to the conversation of course but he doesn’t decide.

He didn’t sign Phillips, Stephenson to inflated salaries…rendering the club incapable of bringing in the high end talent to take us to the next level. He also didn’t trade Witts for nothing…all these thing impact decisions on potential player targets down stream.

Beams is another example, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it was Maguire that signed us up to Grundys contract.

In any case the point of my original point is that Buckley is and was a great coach, and did the list he could with a defective list that he did not create in his own…he worked effectively in a very broken system!
 
Drives me nuts. Our "leaders" in Adams and Sidebottom totally failed to step up, yet very little criticism is leveled at them. Adams and Sidebottom are both on pretty expensive deals too
Sidebottom has been trashed all year and there’s literally a thread detailing why Adams shouldn’t be the next captain, it’s not like they’re not copping it.
 

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