Autopsy Round 22, 2018: St.Kilda v Hawthorn

[Nutsngum]

Great work from the club last night. This is exactly what football is all about.

Reminds me of my nan except replace the Saints with old Fitzroy. Just not the same with Brisbane for her though.

I’ll give some credit, in that I thought Richo coached pretty well last night. He got a lot of match ups right & a few wrong - Webster in Gunstan was poor. But I got the feeling that the players seemed to play with more freedom to play their own game & not play so rigidly in that possibly the coach’s gave threw the shackles off. Not sure what it was like at the ground, but that was the vibe I got on the coverage

I think we lack a proper matchup with Gunstan. Roberton is the ideal matchup but of course cant play right now so we're stuck with either a bit too short or a bit too lumbering.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Didn't get many possessions but a big shout out for Benny Paton. This is a guy I feel very comfortable with the footy in his hands.

He’s certainly confident kicking a long goal.

 

[Brains Trust66]

We will beat north

That will be great , I hate Norff supporters.


Go Saints

 

[Enclosed_Animal]

Didn't get many possessions but a big shout out for Benny Paton. This is a guy I feel very comfortable with the footy in his hands.

Play him in position he will look even better!

 

[Ricmel]

The St.Kilda riddle continues to baffle.

The question kept going round in my head watching last night - is the big issue our players or coaching/strategies/structures.

I think there are 4 key issues,

1. We lack outside speed. As a result our players get sucked to the ball not trusting their ability to catch play. When we gain possession it tends to be a series of 3 or 4 handballs of no more than 2 - 4 feet in length, usually hard and at the teammates ankles or head. The lack of break away speed means we work in the phone box more often than not and because we play at such close quarters, turn overs are high.

2. The players are not as fit as they should be. Our two way run is very shallow and the opposition often kicks over our press and when we have possession our attacking players are not sufficiently forward to beat the opposition press. Like Carlton , we also seem to play one side only, either loaded in front of the play or loaded well behind it. I think this is because the players struggle with spread, they lack the fitness to cover territory.

3. Our kicking skills are as bad as I can recall seeing in an AFL team. In fact as supporters we are now celebrating that one good field kick the occasionally occurs. This one baffles me more than anything else....how have we managed to build such a poor kicking group of players when clearly the modern game demands precise kicking almost above everything else. Look at Demons today, they are not a fast side but their field kicking makes them look fast because it is so often precise.

4. Coaching. Given that the above issues have been in evidence for at least all of 2018, how has nothing really been improved. I'd like to know how many times against Hawthorn we went through the centre corridor because it felt like we took the game on far more than we have in the previous couple of months. The playing of Brown, McCartin, Longer, Armitage in the same team has crippled us. I cannot think of another team that carries so much ballast in their "best 22". This as changed completely the way the team plays today vs 2016. I'm not sure you can afford to carry one whale, let alone 4. The coaching department must wear the blame for failing to at least attempt to correct structural and strategic issues.

 

[Persevering Saint]

I think there are 4 key issues,

1. We lack outside speed. As a result our players get sucked to the ball not trusting their ability to catch play. When we gain possession it tends to be a series of 3 or 4 handballs of no more than 2 - 4 feet in length, usually hard and at the teammates ankles or head. The lack of break away speed means we work in the phone box more often than not and because we play at such close quarters, turn overs are high.

2. The players are not as fit as they should be. Our two way run is very shallow and the opposition often kicks over our press and when we have possession our attacking players are not sufficiently forward to beat the opposition press. Like Carlton , we also seem to play one side only, either loaded in front of the play or loaded well behind it. I think this is because the players struggle with spread, they lack the fitness to cover territory.

3. Our kicking skills are as bad as I can recall seeing in an AFL team. In fact as supporters we are now celebrating that one good field kick the occasionally occurs. This one baffles me more than anything else....how have we managed to build such a poor kicking group of players when clearly the modern game demands precise kicking almost above everything else. Look at Demons today, they are not a fast side but their field kicking makes them look fast because it is so often precise.

4. Coaching. Given that the above issues have been in evidence for at least all of 2018, how has nothing really been improved. I'd like to know how many times against Hawthorn we went through the centre corridor because it felt like we took the game on far more than we have in the previous couple of months. The playing of Brown, McCartin, Longer, Armitage in the same team has crippled us. I cannot think of another team that carries so much ballast in their "best 22". This as changed completely the way the team plays today vs 2016. I'm not sure you can afford to carry one whale, let alone 4. The coaching department must wear the blame for failing to at least attempt to correct structural and strategic issues.

5. Lack of steel, courage, determination. Seriously, I've seen more guts in a used sanitary napkin.

 

[mightymalaka]

5. Lack of steel, courage, determination. Seriously, I've seen more guts in a used sanitary napkin.

lol

Bang!

 

[Saint Shags]

To my eyes yep, JB for sure was off..

Unsure in Marshall but play was on the outer side for the last parts of the game

Would seem strange. Played 97 out of 120. Perhaps just seemed that way.

 

[Jade Buddha]

I think there are 4 key issues,

1. We lack outside speed. As a result our players get sucked to the ball not trusting their ability to catch play. When we gain possession it tends to be a series of 3 or 4 handballs of no more than 2 - 4 feet in length, usually hard and at the teammates ankles or head. The lack of break away speed means we work in the phone box more often than not and because we play at such close quarters, turn overs are high.

2. The players are not as fit as they should be. Our two way run is very shallow and the opposition often kicks over our press and when we have possession our attacking players are not sufficiently forward to beat the opposition press. Like Carlton , we also seem to play one side only, either loaded in front of the play or loaded well behind it. I think this is because the players struggle with spread, they lack the fitness to cover territory.

3. Our kicking skills are as bad as I can recall seeing in an AFL team. In fact as supporters we are now celebrating that one good field kick the occasionally occurs. This one baffles me more than anything else....how have we managed to build such a poor kicking group of players when clearly the modern game demands precise kicking almost above everything else. Look at Demons today, they are not a fast side but their field kicking makes them look fast because it is so often precise.

4. Coaching. Given that the above issues have been in evidence for at least all of 2018, how has nothing really been improved. I'd like to know how many times against Hawthorn we went through the centre corridor because it felt like we took the game on far more than we have in the previous couple of months. The playing of Brown, McCartin, Longer, Armitage in the same team has crippled us. I cannot think of another team that carries so much ballast in their "best 22". This as changed completely the way the team plays today vs 2016. I'm not sure you can afford to carry one whale, let alone 4. The coaching department must wear the blame for failing to at least attempt to correct structural and strategic issues.

Agree about Melbs accuracy and it making them look fast.
Coaching decisions and set ups have been poor but you gotta think these guys aren’t stupid so what gives.

 

[malevu]

No way anyone gets a farewell match for mine. We may not want to win to effect our ladder position next week, but I’d love to beat North to make amends for the round 2 abomination

How about a farewell match for Richo ?

 

[Nutsngum]

I find it amusing how much people talk about how slow we are yet one of the first things mentioned by Clarkson, the best coach in the game, is about trying to match our pace.

Odd hey.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Didn't get many possessions but a big shout out for Benny Paton. This is a guy I feel very comfortable with the footy in his hands.

Always felt the same after seeing his draft highlights when he decided to kick in from fb with his left foot.

 

[bird_man]

We are a chance this week.

Fingers crossed Brisbane can knock off WC

 

[Ricmel]

Agree about Melbs accuracy and it making them look fast.
Coaching decisions and set ups have been poor but you gotta think these guys aren’t stupid so what gives.

I think most in here are putting too much weight on poor coaching. You don't coach a player to miss targets from 15 metres, to be incapable of kicking a set shot on goal within 30 metres, to handball at feet, to kick high loopy kicks, to not cover moves out the back - these are the basics of the game - you start to learn them in under 10s footy.

It simply amazes me, with all of the infrastructure around juniors, with all the assessments they go through - that players could get to the point where they are taken as a top 20 junior in the country and they cannot execute the basic skills of football. I have a mate whose son is going to go top 5 next year. I am intimate with the processes he has been through since he turned about 11 - state squads, national squads, AFL special squads, national carnivals, overseas tours, Scott Lucas squads - how do you get through that, then impress an AFL scout and then play AFL football and you cannot kick?

The coaching seems to have holes in it. But the list is in very ordinary shape with still no elite talent on the horizon despite 9 top 20 draft choices in the last 8 years. You can't blame the players - they can only do what they can do. Can you blame the coaches that Billings cannot nail 4 out of 5 set shots from 30 meters? Not really, you would expect he gets to the club with that skill. Can you blame coaches that McCartin has neither the pace nor tank to get to multiple contests? So it has to start with recruitment for me.

Like it or hate it, this current coaching group has been done no favours with the players that have been selected by StKilda. How much say they have in that I don't know but you would think, just on the law of averages, they would have fluked one elite talent in 8 years.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I find it amusing how much people talk about how slow we are yet one of the first things mentioned by Clarkson, the best coach in the game, is about trying to match our pace.

Odd hey.

Exactly.
The commentators last year said it on a few occasions. You don’t have to be able to run fast if you can move the ball quickly and skilfully by hand and foot ( which of course has been our downfall most of the time )

 

[#gosaintas]

Good effort by the Saints. The Hawks came out like it was training run and the Saints played seriously.

I thought the Saints players did well as they auditioned in front of their next head coach. I'm hoping that the Saints pick up Ratten and the Hawthorn coaching academy expands to seven teams in the league.

Clarkson started coaching with us

 

[FQFjt]

Who was Austin playing on? Seemed to me he would have been the best match up for Gunston which would have released Webster. On the few occasions Webster was rebounding with the ball, his kicking was elite. But for most of the night he was locking down (and getting beaten) on Gunston.

 

[Saintbloke]

Who was Austin playing on? Seemed to me he would have been the best match up for Gunston which would have released Webster. On the few occasions Webster was rebounding with the ball, his kicking was elite. But for most of the night he was locking down (and getting beaten) on Gunston.

Webster needs to learn to play in front a bit more as a key backman, otherwise no problems

 

[mightymalaka]

Who was Austin playing on? Seemed to me he would have been the best match up for Gunston which would have released Webster. On the few occasions Webster was rebounding with the ball, his kicking was elite. But for most of the night he was locking down (and getting beaten) on Gunston.

Agree Austin should have been the match up, even though his defending has been poor this year
but with Carlisle a late out he was used in that role instead! You hope they had him earmarked for Gunstan otherwise
as he needs to sort out his balance between defending and rebounding. But knowing Richo
he probably had him down to play Full Forward!

 

[ScrappyDo]

I think there are 4 key issues,

1. We lack outside speed.
List management, (includes the head coach)

2. The players are not as fit as they should be.
Conditioning, (overseen by the head coach)

3. Our kicking skills are as bad as I can recall seeing in an AFL team.
Skills and team psychology (overseen by the head coach)

4. Coaching. Given that the above issues have been in evidence for at least all of 2018, how has nothing really been improved..
(overseen by the head coach)

Agree about Melbs accuracy and it making them look fast.
Coaching decisions and set ups have been poor but you gotta think these guys aren’t stupid so what gives.

Whilst the ultimate accountability lies with the Board, Pres and CEO, the primary hub for all the failed departments (sandy alignment aside) is the head coach. He's quite literally done nothing for 5 years, and the results of that are plain to see.
I'll stand corrected if someone can actually name something that he's brought to the club, coz I can't think of a single thing...not one!

 

[#gosaintas]

Whilst the ultimate accountability lies with the Board, Pres and CEO, the primary hub for all the failed departments (sandy alignment aside) is the head coach. He's quite literally done nothing for 5 years, and the results of that are plain to see.
I'll stand corrected if someone can actually name something that he's brought to the club, coz I can't think of a single thing...not one!

Selection integrity


LOL

 

[ScrappyDo]

I think most in here are putting too much weight on poor coaching. You don't coach a player to miss targets from 15 metres, to be incapable of kicking a set shot on goal within 30 metres, to handball at feet, to kick high loopy kicks, to not cover moves out the back - these are the basics of the game - you start to learn them in under 10s footy.

It simply amazes me, with all of the infrastructure around juniors, with all the assessments they go through - that players could get to the point where they are taken as a top 20 junior in the country and they cannot execute the basic skills of football. I have a mate whose son is going to go top 5 next year. I am intimate with the processes he has been through since he turned about 11 - state squads, national squads, AFL special squads, national carnivals, overseas tours, Scott Lucas squads - how do you get through that, then impress an AFL scout and then play AFL football and you cannot kick?

The coaching seems to have holes in it. But the list is in very ordinary shape with still no elite talent on the horizon despite 9 top 20 draft choices in the last 8 years. You can't blame the players - they can only do what they can do. Can you blame the coaches that Billings cannot nail 4 out of 5 set shots from 30 meters? Not really, you would expect he gets to the club with that skill. Can you blame coaches that McCartin has neither the pace nor tank to get to multiple contests? So it has to start with recruitment for me.

Like it or hate it, this current coaching group has been done no favours with the players that have been selected by StKilda. How much say they have in that I don't know but you would think, just on the law of averages, they would have fluked one elite talent in 8 years.

The team's psychology is shot, of which Billings goal kicking is the primary example. Paddy has had to remodel his game to avoid concussion (which is a stand alone issue)

 

[malevu]

I think when we all start reviewing our list after next week we should consider the fact that Richo looks to be secure in his job. He clearly has his favourites eg. Newnes, Paddy, Armo, Weller, Longer etc. Others like Goddard, White, Lonie and others not so much.

Who we might like to offer up as trade bait and who he will look at might be entirely different.

 

[BigPowerForward]

name something that he's brought to the club, coz I can't think of a single thing...not one!

That depends....... Can we include the 361 pages of entertaining reading in the Sack Richo thread??

 

[ScrappyDo]

That depends....... Can we include the 361 pages of entertaining reading in the Sack Richo thread??

Absolutely we can!
Gentlemen, I present to you the crowning achievement of our mighty Head Coach!!!
361 pages of internet tripe!!

Crikey, it looks like I've been very wrong indeed..Sign Cho!!!!
3 MORE YEARS!!!