Autopsy Round 22, 2021: Hawks walk the Dogs

[Turly]

Just wanted to point out that Hartigan played on one of the hottest forward talents in the AFL today and kept him to 2 shots on goal, and 1 of them was when he was absolutely in the right spot, but was simply out-reached for the mark from behind.

Spud.

 

[satan1]

Hopefully he is a development coach at Hawthorn next year. So much knowledge being lost end of this year.

Was announced last year that this would be his last with him working on a transition to an off field role with us next year. Assume this was in the pipeline when he turned down the suns.

 

[satan1]

I don't think the mindset is defensive. It is more that we are applying pressure. The aim is to win the ball and press forward.

Could you say, defensive pressure?
But agree, this is what I meant.

 

[H00t]

Overrating our list, we have 9 best 22 players that are injured to go with 3 picks inside around top 25. We've won 3 in a row. Hardly "overrating" for someone to say we could push up and compete.

It really begs the question why we have struggled so much the last couple of years when we have had all those players playing.

I think at this point it’s safe to say we can’t just add those players in and expect us to play much better.

Our “lesser” players today have produced a better performance than having our full team out there.

 

[KermitJagger]

I'm rewatching bits of it now, can we talk about how incredibly unlucky Kosi was in quite a few contests not to get free kicks? Keath was all over him, saw him get manhandled without it a few times, copped the old arm round the head obviously in marking contests a few times.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

It really begs the question why we have struggled so much the last couple of years when we have had all those players playing.

I think at this point it’s safe to say we can’t just add those players in and expect us to play much better.

Our “lesser” players today have produced a better performance than having our full team out there.

We didn't have everyone of these guys playing, also gotta take into account "form" and gelling together, the gameplan and everything along those lines. So nah it's not that simple sorry.

And we can expect to play alot better with 9 to 11! players who are Best 22 9 def best 22 and 2 that def should be, aka DGB/Reeves.

Our "lesser" players have been good since the bye thats why, our better players who are also getting back to their bests "Titch" "Wingard" after injuries. Yknow.

 

[HairyO]

It really begs the question why we have struggled so much the last couple of years when we have had all those players playing.

I think at this point it’s safe to say we can’t just add those players in and expect us to play much better.

Our “lesser” players today have produced a better performance than having our full team out there.

Because COVID meant 2 years of limited development of young players and we were trying to rebuild. Top teams are fine. Developing teams have been screwed.

 

[Glacier]

It really begs the question why we have struggled so much the last couple of years when we have had all those players playing.

I think at this point it’s safe to say we can’t just add those players in and expect us to play much better.

Our “lesser” players today have produced a better performance than having our full team out there.

Maybe we are playing better because players have been given a licence to attack and play with dare instead of being over coached
Yep, there, I said it

 

[detox]

Just wanted to point out that Hartigan played on one of the hottest forward talents in the AFL today and kept him to 2 shots on goal, and 1 of them was when he was absolutely in the right spot, but was simply out-reached for the mark from behind.

Hartigan has done a pretty good job this year to be fair.

 

[KermitJagger]

Because COVID meant 2 years of limited development of young players and we were trying to rebuild. Top teams are fine. Developing teams have been screwed.

We were most definitely not trying to rebuild for the previous 2 years. Stop trying to craft this narrative that every good thing = clarko and everything bad = not clarko.

 

[Slainte]

It really begs the question why we have struggled so much the last couple of years when we have had all those players playing.

I think at this point it’s safe to say we can’t just add those players in and expect us to play much better.

Our “lesser” players today have produced a better performance than having our full team out there.

We have not had "all those players playing" over the past couple of years. Bramble, Newcombe, Downie are all completely new. Nash has never played midfield before. Philips is new to Hawthorn. There are quite a few others who had just a handful of games prior to this year.

 

[HairyO]

We were most definitely not trying to rebuild for the previous 2 years. Stop trying to craft this narrative that every good thing = clarko and everything bad = not clarko.

So all 40 of our AFL players were getting games either for Hawthorn or Box Hill every week over the last 2 years?

How many Box Hill games did our 10 or 12 kids get last year?

How many have they had this year against actual VFL opponents?

 

[KermitJagger]

So all 40 of our AFL players were getting games either for Hawthorn or Box Hill every week over the last 2 years?

How many Box Hill games did our 10 or 12 kids get last year?

How many have they had this year against actual VFL opponents?

You said we were trying to rebuild for the previous 2 years and this post has absolutely nothing to do with it.

 

[HairyO]

You said we were trying to rebuild for the previous 2 years and this post has absolutely nothing to do with it.

How else would you rebuild other than get games experience in to the kids?

And how do you rotate the kids in to the seniors if there are no reserves games ?

Its really not that hard to comprehend. No matter how badly you want to push the Mitchell = good, Clarko = no good line.

In 2020 our kids were playing bruise free practice matches every few weeks.

 

[KermitJagger]

How else would you rebuild other than get games experience in to the kids?

And how do you rotate the kids in to the seniors if there are no reserves games ?

Its really not that hard to comprehend. No matter how badly you want to push the Mitchell = good, Clarko = no good line.

In 2020 our kids were playing bruise free practice matches every few weeks.

Well I'd imagine you certainly don't trade in and play blokes like Scully, Patton, Frost, Wingard and others if you're looking to rebuild. Rotating players is a non issue, we were most certainly not trying to rebuild.

I agreed with those moves at the time by the way, because I didn't think a hard rebuild was necessary. Still don't in fact.

 

[CHUBBSS]

What really stood out to me this game is scrimshaws defence is quality now - always gets a hand or a contest and just reads the play better

This is one of our greatest steals and makes up for The Jager trade

 

[Blackhawk42]

I'm rewatching bits of it now, can we talk about how incredibly unlucky Kosi was in quite a few contests not to get free kicks? Keath was all over him, saw him get manhandled without it a few times, copped the old arm round the head obviously in marking contests a few times.

I noticed this too. Was a great battle, but wow Kosi was unlucky a couple of times.

 

[Nick the Pig]

Hartigan has done a pretty good job this year to be fair.

Hartigan has been a great pick up for us. Gets unfairly criticized much like Frawley. Provides size, thuggery and leadership for the young blokes. Surprisingly given his limitations he doesn't get beaten too often. Without him we would be very exposed for size at FB.

I don't think his opponent would relish the thought of playing on him. Not many old school clip behind the ears make you earn it backmen around these days.

 

[WWSD]

Wingard is back. Reminiscent of the form he displayed in 2019 when he played as a midfielder.

Round 19: 24 disposals - 3 marks - 5 tackles - 6 inside 50s
Round 20: 32 disposals - 7 marks - 7 tackles - 6 inside 50s - 2 goals
Round 21: 30 disposals - 4 marks - 4 tackles - 6 inside 50s
Round 22: 26 disposals - 3 marks - 3 tackles - 8 inside 50s - 1 goal

 

[H00t]

We didn't have everyone of these guys playing, also gotta take into account "form" and gelling together, the gameplan and everything along those lines. So nah it's not that simple sorry.

And we can expect to play alot better with 9 to 11! players who are Best 22 9 def best 22 and 2 that def should be, aka DGB/Reeves.

Our "lesser" players have been good since the bye thats why, our better players who are also getting back to their bests "Titch" "Wingard" after injuries. Yknow.

This is why I don’t think we can just add 9 to 11 players and expect everyone to play better than they are now. Will those players gel and keep form?

Worps, JOM and Tom have struggled to work together for two years, etc.

We won this game on the back of effort and working for each other. Emulating that after replacing half of the team will be a serious challenge. And shouldn’t be expected to happen.

 

[TylerDurden]

Wingard is back. Reminiscent of the form he displayed in 2019 when he played as a midfielder.

Round 19: 24 disposals - 3 marks - 5 tackles - 6 inside 50s
Round 20: 32 disposals - 7 marks - 7 tackles - 6 inside 50s - 2 goals
Round 21: 30 disposals - 4 marks - 4 tackles - 6 inside 50s
Round 22: 26 disposals - 3 marks - 3 tackles - 8 inside 50s - 1 goal

His kicking inside 50 was sublime today.

 

[Milkshaker]

Wingard is back. Reminiscent of the form he displayed in 2019 when he played as a midfielder.

Round 19: 24 disposals - 3 marks - 5 tackles - 6 inside 50s
Round 20: 32 disposals - 7 marks - 7 tackles - 6 inside 50s - 2 goals
Round 21: 30 disposals - 4 marks - 4 tackles - 6 inside 50s
Round 22: 26 disposals - 3 marks - 3 tackles - 8 inside 50s - 1 goal

We needed this from him rounds 1-4 imo. Right now its meh.

 

[burnside5]

Where's our draft picks going> lol..

Great development and always been a Scrimshaw fan as not sure Clarko always was as seemed to be the first dropped when playing a decent game not long ago.

Bramble and Downie the goods as is Newcombe and Kosi a genuine forward.

O'Brien down back is his best spot.

Mitch and Wingard again excellent but the standout for me was Howe and since he has lost weight is like a different player. Tough, skilled and now much more agile.

 

[Jazzfan]

What really stood out to me this game is scrimshaws defence is quality now - always gets a hand or a contest and just reads the play better

This is one of our greatest steals and makes up for The Jager trade

I wouldn't say quality until he is able to stand more dangerous forwards, but you are spot on, it is really improving. It might not have been his most damaging game today, but I felt it was one of his best defensively, which resulted in O'Brien getting the favourable matchup. To great effect.

 

[CD Xbow]

I am happy to some extent but it's a bit depressing how well drilled we actually are, and the same team went on 4 and 5 game losing streaks. To me it literally comes down to whether players are willing to put in midfield pressure for years. Been the same last year and the year before that, in 2020 we started 3-1 and in 2019 we finished the year 6-2 going from bottom four to narrowly missing the 8.

I really think it's the recent personal added, not any lack of effort.