Autopsy Round 22, 2022: St.Kilda v Brisbane

[tomjoad]

Just touched back in Dublin after a very nice break in Portugal...I had nothing to do with footy really...so what's the deal!? Is it the players, coaching, or each other we're hammering??

 

[luca77]

Perhaps Max said to the club - no he's a nice bloke but he's the one who taught me how to kick and look where thats got me.

Lloyd was on the Footy Show showing how Max is getting it wrong, and get this - saying he shouldn't be spinning the ball while walking in (yes, the footage showed he was walking in, spinning it in all directions). Also momentum, leaning back etc. Safe to say he never taught Max to kick like this.
But any armchair expert can see what's wrong with the action. Lloyd's saying the same stuff anyone would. He also said to fix it, someone's got to be with him every day making sure he's doing it right every time until he breaks these habits.
Sounds easy enough unless people are in denial that there's a problem that needs fixing. If they are, we're farked and have years of this shyte ahead.

 

[MordySaint]

Lloyd was on the Footy Show showing how Max is getting it wrong, and get this - saying he shouldn't be spinning the ball while walking in (yes, the footage showed he was walking in, spinning it in all directions). Also momentum, leaning back etc. Safe to say he never taught Max to kick like this.
But any armchair expert can see what's wrong with the action. Lloyd's saying the same stuff anyone would. He also said to fix it, someone's got to be with him every day making sure he's doing it right every time until he breaks these habits.
Sounds easy enough unless people are in denial that there's a problem that needs fixing. If they are, we're farked and have years of this shyte ahead.

Look at the guy in your profile picture, Stewart Loewe... he was perhaps the worst kick I have ever seen on the football field.

He fixed it and became a reliable kick... You know how he did it, a proven technique and proven teacher ... then hard work, hard work and add a bit of hard work.

Our club seems to think the answer to everything is a session with the club psychologist and a Kum-by-yah session before the game.


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[gringo2011]

Nothing changes when nothing changes.

If they don't make major changes then we will be right back in the same boat next year ... as we are this year ... and as we were last year.

The old cut a couple of assistant coaches, get a high priced recruit ...then rinse and repeat won't cut it.


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The game plan has to change. Hopefully the footy department is on notice that what they are doing won't cut it. I called that Richmond would play finals before they won the 2017 GF, called Melbourne last year playing finals and Collingwood this year and Brisbane before they rose. What you want to look at is player improvement, we have had that this year, a huge amount of players have stepped up to a higher level. To me we look like a side that should have made finals and if we get a good run with injury, tweak the game plan and learn to trust each other and play together we should move forward.

To be top 4 we'd need others to stagnate which is unlikely and we need to get more out of Clark, Coffield, Snags, Owens, Windy, Nas, Byrnes etc. Realistically that's where the improvement to step up has to come from. There isn't heap coming up so we need to have overachieved with the draft picks we do have.

I think even without much changing we probably make finals next year but our ceiling is much lower than others like Sydney, Freo, Suns etc who have a lot of organic growth due to large quality youth quotas. Even GWS will at some point start to turn around but probably a few years off still.

 

[MordySaint]

The game plan has to change. Hopefully the footy department is on notice that what they are doing won't cut it. I called that Richmond would play finals before they won the 2017 GF, called Melbourne last year playing finals and Collingwood this year and Brisbane before they rose. What you want to look at is player improvement, we have had that this year, a huge amount of players have stepped up to a higher level. To me we look like a side that should have made finals and if we get a good run with injury, tweak the game plan and learn to trust each other and play together we should move forward.

To be top 4 we'd need others to stagnate which is unlikely and we need to get more out of Clark, Coffield, Snags, Owens, Windy, Nas, Byrnes etc. Realistically that's where the improvement to step up has to come from. There isn't heap coming up so we need to have overachieved with the draft picks we do have.

I think even without much changing we probably make finals next year but our ceiling is much lower than others like Sydney, Freo, Suns etc who have a lot of organic growth due to large quality youth quotas. Even GWS will at some point start to turn around but probably a few years off still.

Collingwood fixed it by getting a new coach.

There is nothing wrong with change, it is the greatest technique that man has to improve itself.

This club just puts everything in the too hard basket and loathes change.

All I hear is stability, stability, stability... thats the way Richmond did it.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Anyhow. If King was able to kick straight it would only be something else. Such is St Kilda.

 

[luca77]

Look at the guy in your profile picture, Stewart Loewe... he was perhaps the worst kick I have ever seen on the football field.

He fixed it and became a reliable kick... You know how he did it, a proven technique and proven teacher ... then hard work, hard work and add a bit of hard work.

Our club seems to think the answer to everything is a session with the club psychologist and a Kum-by-yah session before the game.


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He was damn reliable in the later years, and pedantically scratched out the dirt and counted the steps back. Every time, no matter how close to goal he was.
Beginning a repeatable action of goalkicking with a repeatable process. No random flicking, walking in from a random distance at a random pace.
Why wait til the later years? Should have been done already, and Friday night should be the catalyst.

 

[luca77]

Anyhow. If King was able to kick straight it would only be something else. Such is St Kilda.

Such is life! Gotta just hit each mole as it raises its head though, one by one.

 

[gringo2011]

He was damn reliable in the later years, and pedantically scratched out the dirt and counted the steps back. Every time, no matter how close to goal he was.
Beginning a repeatable action of goalkicking with a repeatable process. No random flicking, walking in from a random distance at a random pace.
Why wait til the later years? Should have been done already, and Friday night should be the catalyst.

It is easier to calm your mind with a set routine and gives you a minute to change your focus from anxiety to something external. That said the yips is something that when you get it the more you try to stop it the more it hits you. I think the club think that we might cause the issues rather than fixing them but ironing out some wrinkles in technique in the off season seems the perfect time to address it.

 

[phantom13]

The only time it would be an issue is if Max King asked the club to get Matthew Lloyd into help and the club refused.

But that wasn't what happened - it was unrequested offer from Matthew Lloyd that the club rightly rejected no doubt after discussing it with Max.

Perhaps Max said to the club - no he's a nice bloke but he's the one who taught me how to kick and look where thats got me.

Ive read alot about it and that version is not one ive ever seen before.

Way ive read it is that Max reached out (or Lloyd reached out, that part doesnt really matter IMO) but Max absolutely asked St.Kilda if he could spend some time with Lloyd and the club refused. That, to me, is a problem. We all acknowledge that Max obviously has some issues with his goalkicking, if he wanted to work with Matt then let him. Its not like anyone could make his current routine worse.

 

[phantom13]

It is easier to calm your mind with a set routine and gives you a minute to change your focus from anxiety to something external. That said the yips is something that when you get it the more you try to stop it the more it hits you. I think the club think that we might cause the issues rather than fixing them but ironing out some wrinkles in technique in the off season seems the perfect time to address it.

There is alot to be said for the value of being able to quickly forget your mistakes in the moment (by all means go back and analyse after the fact but move on in the game).

I think you mentioned in the gameday thread the Windy looks like he doesnt get burned by his mistakes and will happily go again if its on.

Max by the time he had his seocnd or third shot looked like he wanted to be doing anything other than taking a set shot.

I will die on the "ball twirling" hill but in reality the technique bit is easy. Pick a number of steps, get some momentum and keep your head down, then repeat it until its automatic. The head issues are hard.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It is easier to calm your mind with a set routine and gives you a minute to change your focus from anxiety to something external. That said the yips is something that when you get it the more you try to stop it the more it hits you. I think the club think that we might cause the issues rather than fixing them but ironing out some wrinkles in technique in the off season seems the perfect time to address it.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Well, it worked against Carlton - and then we changed it back.

He got on his bike & ran v Carlton.

The next week he was back trying to take pack marks v 3 opposition.

 

[Diehard Saint]

He got on his bike & ran v Carlton.

The next week he was back trying to take pack marks v 3 opposition.

His decision, or the coaches' ?

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

His decision, or the coaches' ?

It's probably a mix of both... he was more of a decoy v Carlton & then they went back to playing him deep. But he also doesn't help himself... most of his leads are 20-25m deep into the pocket. Which in itself is probably related to how slowly we move the ball and how congested the forward line is by the time he can lead.

 

[my name was taken]

Anyhow. If King was able to kick straight it would only be something else. Such is St Kilda.

tbf, if everyone else could kick into the forward line more reliably through the entire season then Kings off games probably don't send us to mad monday early. We just cant kick full stop haha

 

[EddieMurphy]

There is alot to be said for the value of being able to quickly forget your mistakes in the moment (by all means go back and analyse after the fact but move on in the game).

I think you mentioned in the gameday thread the Windy looks like he doesnt get burned by his mistakes and will happily go again if its on.

Max by the time he had his seocnd or third shot looked like he wanted to be doing anything other than taking a set shot.

I will die on the "ball twirling" hill but in reality the technique bit is easy. Pick a number of steps, get some momentum and keep your head down, then repeat it until its automatic. The head issues are hard.

He should pick someone out sitting behind the goals and "pass" it to them

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Matthew Richardson

Matthew Richardson

Age

49

Ht

195cm

Wt

104kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.0

4star

K

10.9

4star

HB

3.1

3star

M

8.0

5star

T

0.5

3star

No current season stats available

D

15.0

4star

K

9.2

4star

HB

5.8

4star

M

7.8

5star

T

0.8

3star

has done worse.

 

[malevu]

He should pick someone out sitting behind the goals and "pass" it to them

That's actually a tried and proven technique.

 

[gringo2011]

That's actually a tried and proven technique.

That's how I used to train the kids to kick at goal. Find a tree or a seat or anything you can kick to and ignore the goal posts. It works really well even for kids. Something about goal posts makes you lose your nerve. Actually think you triangulate your vision or something. A single target lets you make a line. Drawing an imaginary line that runs across the man on the mark to your target gives you a really easy line up.

 

[sauce_head]

that makes me feel a little better!