Autopsy Round 22, 2025: Positives and Negatives vs Adelaide

[HoneyBadger35]

I know his ballwork sucks and he got pinged for that rough HTB after he earnt one, but he was a defensive beast in the 3rd and 4th I thought.


Curious as to how others saw it.

Bad first term with some (arguably stiff) frees against and left looking a goose when we turned it over centre square, but he was super important the rest of the way and involved in our best rebounding chain of the day as he usually is despite the reputation.

Whipping boy status is hard to shake, he’s a very reliable defender but clearly not part of our next flag team nor sexy in his play style and people need a villain.

Loved the 60m one on one sprint with no support to save a goal, gets that wrong and we wouldn’t hear the end of it but got it right so crickets. Important smother on Keays (?) in the fourth. Caught Thilthorpe HTB.

He’s just never a guy you’ll pay your money to see but think he’d be one of the easier selections of McQualters tenure most weeks. Then when he goes back to WAFL he’s comfortably best on. Cannot fathom how we haven’t offered him a deal, and can’t expect he isn’t on an AFL list next year even if we move on.

 

[Dark Sharks]

+ It was like McCarthy turned to the boiz and said "Don't worry fellas, I'll be our Jordan Dawson

12

Jordan Dawson

Age

28

Ht

190cm

Wt

91kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.0

4star

K

11.4

4star

HB

5.7

4star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.8

4star

CL

0.6

3star

D

15.7

4star

K

10.9

4star

HB

4.9

3star

M

2.9

3star

T

2.0

3star

CL

0.4

3star

D

11.8

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

5.0

5star

T

3.0

5star

CL

0.6

3star

today, I'll be captain.." and then proceeded to act like the Crows king. First he's at CBD's, then suddenly he's in defense again taking kick ins, now suddenly he's gangling his way through traffic and about to be run down...but not really. It was awesome. Bloke really turned to his teammates and say "who's coming with me" etc etc, I saw him.

+ Jobe being jobe. I'm actually disappointed in the day he could've had if not for uncharacteristic wayward kicking. 3.2 from the young pup. Career high regardless.

+ Kelly. Would love to know what changed and what penny dropped a month ago for him to finally arrive and start resembling an AFL footballer again.

+ Flogged in the hitouts but Flynn put a shift in against doe boy Riley. If Flynn isn't letting his Oppo ruckman be BOG then that's a tick for him doing his job.

+ Team overall was awesome with the manic pressure and tackling. You've got to set the tone boiz, and some campaigner set it. More importantly we maintained it for the best part of 4 quarters. Only dumb decision making, fit ess and experience let us down in the end.

+ Hall continues to build on a solid season. 16D, 9CP, 4 clearances, 4 intercepts, 3 tackles from only 14CBA's is solid. Bloke is doing it inside and outside





- Owies. We went to shit as soon as he came on. Who says no??

- Gross getting absolutely reamed for CBA's and forced to play the gimp flank which clearly doesn't work for him.

- Coin toss but Chesser gets in this section rather than above. 13D at 46%DE whilst missing a couple easy shots at goal is a bit lame. First half was good, laid some good tackles, but then turned into a real potato again.

- Bazzo was a bit average. Hopefully it all clicks for him with time like it did with Hedwards. Hedwards was always meh and then has suddenly just turned into a reliable intercepting, confident full back overnight.

- Cole and Duggan....

 

[sharps24]

Do you think that Hewett or Shanahan or even Harley are as good today as they will ever be?

How is that relevant?It's not the point I was making. If you bothered to look at the screenshot that accompanied the post you would see that I was referring to who is actually fit right now [and by implication who isn't]. Shanahan kicked 3.2, Hewett had more possessions than Graham and Baker, Harley didn't play. They are not relevant to this discussion. Say something about Hall, Chesser, McCarthy and Brock who the post was actually about if you want to disagree with me.

Did we lose the game because Shanahan would have kicked 6 or 10 if he was a few years older? He kicked the same amount of goals today as Thilthorpe. 3.2 is an elite day for a key forward in any AFL game. Allen has never kicked more than 5 in a game in his career, not sure Jack Darling ever did either, maybe only once or twice in his 300 game career. In what was did Shannahan being 18 cost us the match today? Neither of Hewett or Harley Reid are as fit as Chesser, Hall, Long, Dewar or Davis and never will be either, another pre-season isn't changing that. It's baked into their DNA. And how much further do you think that with another pre-season Chesser/Hall will run from their current level today of beating the other 45 blokes on the field? They already cover the same or more ground than Jack Graham who's our fittest 'senior player." Where do you think they are going to go from here? Double the km's of the next fittest bloke out there? How many AFL players do you think rack up 16km a game in a round or a season, much less reach 15km? Of course they will get better with age but they are likely already at 98% of either their own biological peak or the level required to play the role they play at AFL level. By 25 many players are already on the decline from their peaks physically they only improve past this point because of experience, with some few exceptions for players who need strength which is few players, who peak slightly later and stay relevant slightly longer once they have that strength. [Which on an unrelated note, is why Shannahan's impact at this stage of his career is incredible really and makes him somewhat of a unicorn in the way Harley was at 18]

Anyway, the issue I am drawing attention to that you choose to ignore no matter how many times I bring it up, is that the youngest players are already doing more work at AFL level than the blokes 5-10 years older than them who are getting games with this nuffie reasoning about fitness or skill or experience. Players like Duggan and Cole, Cripps or whatever else you want to use as an example of needing to be in the side because they are more fitter than "kids" like Long or Dewar or whoever else, it's nonsense. Duggan, Cole and Cripps were all themselves in senior side at the same age and playing 23 games a year just fine and probably pulling up and recovering better than they are now too. Our #1 issue is not our age or experience, its turnovers which is execution of basic skills under pressure. The most costly players we have are not our players under 25. Our ceiling is determined by the over 25's, and they are lowering it not lifting it. We will always be odds on to lose games like today as long as we are carrying players who are not AFL quality, just out of this misguided notion that we need them out there for their "leadership" or whatever else the excuse of the day is. They are out there because we pay them lots of money and because football clubs are social hierarchies and the culture of the club cannot actually sustain dropping from the team even if they deserve it- as evidenced by the literal senior player revolt earlier in the season when Kelly was dropped and the club decided to spend 2 weeks on the road staying in Melbourne instead of flying home to be with family.

 

[bzparkes]

 

[HoneyBadger35]

How is that relevant?It's not the point I was making. If you bothered to look at the screenshot that accompanied the post you would see that I was referring to who is actually fit right now [and by implication who isn't]. Shanahan kicked 3.2, Hewett had more possessions than Graham and Baker, Harley didn't play. They are not relevant to this discussion. Say something about Hall, Chesser, McCarthy and Brock who the post was actually about if you want to disagree with me.

Did we lose the game because Shanahan would have kicked 6 or 10 if he was a few years older? He kicked the same amount of goals today as Thilthorpe. 3.2 is an elite day for a key forward in any AFL game. Allen has never kicked more than 5 in a game in his career, not sure Jack Darling ever did either, maybe only once or twice in his 300 game career. In what was did Shannahan being 18 cost us the match today? Neither of Hewett or Harley Reid are as fit as Chesser, Hall, Long, Dewar or Davis and never will be either, another pre-season isn't changing that. It's baked into their DNA. And how much further do you think that with another pre-season Chesser/Hall will run from their current level today of beating the other 45 blokes on the field? They already cover the same or more ground than Jack Graham who's our fittest 'senior player." Where do you think they are going to go from here? Double the km's of the next fittest bloke out there? How many AFL players do you think rack up 16km a game in a round or a season, much less reach 15km? Of course they will get better with age but they are likely already at 98% of either their own biological peak or the level required to play the role they play at AFL level. By 25 many players are already on the decline from their peaks physically they only improve past this point because of experience, with some few exceptions for players who need strength which is few players, who peak slightly later and stay relevant slightly longer once they have that strength. [Which on an unrelated note, is why Shannahan's impact at this stage of his career is incredible really and makes him somewhat of a unicorn in the way Harley was at 18]

Anyway, the issue I am drawing attention to that you choose to ignore no matter how many times I bring it up, is that the youngest players are already doing more work at AFL level than the blokes 5-10 years older than them who are getting games with this nuffie reasoning about fitness or skill or experience. Players like Duggan and Cole, Cripps or whatever else you want to use as an example of needing to be in the side because they are more fitter than "kids" like Long or Dewar or whoever else, it's nonsense. Duggan, Cole and Cripps were all themselves in senior side at the same age and playing 23 games a year just fine and probably pulling up and recovering better than they are now too. Our #1 issue is not our age or experience, its turnovers which is execution of basic skills under pressure. The most costly players we have are not our players under 25. Our ceiling is determined by the over 25's, and they are lowering it not lifting it. We will always be odds on to lose games like today as long as we are carrying players who are not AFL quality, just out of this misguided notion that we need them out there for their "leadership" or whatever else the excuse of the day is. They are out there because we pay them lots of money and because football clubs are social hierarchies and the culture of the club cannot actually sustain dropping from the team even if they deserve it- as evidenced by the literal senior player revolt earlier in the season when Kelly was dropped and the club decided to spend 2 weeks on the road staying in Melbourne instead of flying home to be with family.

Nobody is disputing there are non AFL standard players getting games, and that our ceiling is hurt massively by that. Who is disputing that?

Your obsession with the Telstra tracker said this so therefore the kids are match fit is just a fundamental misunderstanding of fitness. I’m thrilled that everyone can run a nice time trial or cover lots of ground according to the chip in their jumper. He ran far = he’s fitter than the rest is simply not true, not in terms of actual match fitness which is what most people are discussing when we use the term.

Match fitness, true footy fitness, is exactly what you’re talking about but you’re refusing to connect the dot. “We lost because our system broke down and our decision making faded late”. I’m going to have to shout this because I can’t keep making this point.

THAT’S WHAT MATCH FITNESS IS.

The ability to keep your system working even when you’re tired, or to hit contests as hard as the first term and not get knocked off, or to have that extra half second of mental clarity even when your legs are burning. Proper chases with a chance of closing the gap, not jog chases that show up on Telstra Tracker as the same distance covered.

The system failing late and people making bad decision as they wear down IS FITNESS. And it’s what you build year on year, it’s why preseasons and real games under the belt are so important.

 

[FDH16]

With great respect.

What are you guys watching?

Matt Flynn is the equivalent of a walking wicket in the centre square. He doesn't get his hands to the ball, can't jump and opposition sides can be so aggressive with their centre square set up.

He's nowhere near it. Letting his opponents rack up huge numbers.

 

[Weshi]

I know his ballwork sucks and he got pinged for that rough HTB after he earnt one, but he was a defensive beast in the 3rd and 4th I thought.


Curious as to how others saw it.

For an experienced defender he does too much dumb stuff mixed in with some good stuff, would prefer to others to him in the team. Does that leave him as back-up or out the door?

 

[Dark Sharks]

With great respect.

What are you guys watching?

Matt Flynn is the equivalent of a walking wicket in the centre square. He doesn't get his hands to the ball, can't jump and opposition sides can be so aggressive with their centre square set up.

He's nowhere near it. Letting his opponents rack up huge numbers.

You're not wrong technically...

The bar has just been lowered so much for Flynn these days that we're pretty happy if he just goes out there, competes, and his direct opponent isn't BOG.

 

[twce13]

With great respect.

What are you guys watching?

Matt Flynn is the equivalent of a walking wicket in the centre square. He doesn't get his hands to the ball, can't jump and opposition sides can be so aggressive with their centre square set up.

He's nowhere near it. Letting his opponents rack up huge numbers.

This isn’t the hot take you’re making it out to be. We are welll aware of our.. umm.. deficiency in the ruck

 

[Sammy J]

Considering how bad we’ve been this season, I think we’ve come out of it knowing a bit more about our list:

- We have the makings of a new spine here. Harry Edwards has been very good this year. Ginbey is at home down back. Shanahan is a natural FWD and is going to be a great wingman to Waterman next year. Archer Reid and Sandy Brock have also shown some nice signs too.

- Midfield remains a work in progress, but we clearly have a 1A talent in Harley. Hewett is still emerging but the signs are good. McCarthy was incredible today - he looks like an absolute gem.

- The intensity and effort was there for 4 quarters today. We just didn’t have enough talent and skill to execute. Hopefully the game itself is a confidence booster for the kids.

 

[FDH16]

Flynn went to 73 ruck contests today - won 22 hit-outs.

Obrien also went to 74 ruck contests, won 51 hit-outs.

Adelaide had 18 centre clearance to 8 for West Coast.

I appreciate that is a combination of factors, those at ground level aren't at the same level as Adelaide, but seriously, Flynn does not give his mids much supply.

Haven't seen him break even or get close to it, ever.

Huge handicap on his side.

 

[Bushhopper]

With great respect.

What are you guys watching?

Matt Flynn is the equivalent of a walking wicket in the centre square. He doesn't get his hands to the ball, can't jump and opposition sides can be so aggressive with their centre square set up.

He's nowhere near it. Letting his opponents rack up huge numbers.

Freo supporters shitting on our ruckman, we have entered a new low, can't say I disagree either

 

[FDH16]

This isn’t the hot take you’re making it out to be. We are welll aware of our.. umm.. decencies in the ruck

Not a hot take, just surprised by the number of fans counting a ruck domination as a positive.

Almost like you have anti Naitanui disease, you have become numb to what a competent, AFL standard ruck looks like.

Anyway, Shanahan & Mcarthy can play.

 

[Elite Pete]

Considering how bad we’ve been this season, I think we’ve come out of it knowing a bit more about our list:

- We have the makings of a new spine here. Harry Edwards has been very good this year. Ginbey is at home down back. Shanahan is a natural FWD and is going to be a great wingman to Waterman next year. Archer Reid and Sandy Brock have also shown some nice signs too.

- Midfield remains a work in progress, but we clearly have a 1A talent in Harley. Hewett is still emerging but the signs are good. McCarthy was incredible today - he looks like an absolute gem.

- The intensity and effort was there for 4 quarters today. We just didn’t have enough talent and skill to execute. Hopefully the game itself is a confidence booster for the kids.

Midfield is clearly the weakness including ruck.

It was only one game but If McCarthy can make it as the link man in there with Harley as the X factor. Get any ball contested winning mid and afl standard ruck around them and things look very bright in there.

Cameron* - AReid
Harley - Davies*
Yeo - Sharp*
McCarthy - Hewett

Could match it with most teams.

Replacing Tom at kicking and creativity is a lot easier then finding that accumulating link kicking mid.

 

[Ilkka Sinisalo]

Yeah, match fitness needs to improve. We would be much more competitive if most of the side could actually run a full game out. I don’t know what the breakdown is in quarter by quarter scoring but surely our fourth quarter margins have to be dreadful, especially in the handful of matches where we were actually competitive going into the fourth quarter.

There was a series pretty late in the fourth when the result was somewhat in the balance that was emblematic of this, to me. There was a kick from the Crows’ defence down the wing which should have been a very contested pack with the ball brought to ground; instead the Crows managed to take a pretty easy mark. Then the next kick was down the line to just inside their forward 50; again this should have been the obvious play with plenty of defenders in the area but the Crows had numbers instead someone (Burgess maybe?) took an uncontested mark. He didn’t goal but I’m pretty sure it led to a goal, maybe the one where Thilthorpe probably got screwed out of a mark but then kicked a goal a few seconds later?

Anyway, the point is that this was a pretty stock standard exit from the Crows’ end but what I perceive as a lack of fitness led to two easy marks and ultimately a goal. I hope that with a better level of buy-in this offseason and fewer injuries in pre season that we won’t see these routine fourth quarter drubbings so much next year.

 

[Cainozz]

Not a hot take, just surprised by the number of fans counting a ruck domination as a positive.

Almost like you have anti Naitanui disease, you have become numb to what a competent, AFL standard ruck looks like.

Anyway, Shanahan & Mcarthy can play.

Well that’s exactly it and basically has been the story of the year of rotating between Williams and Flynn in an endless loop because we have no one else. When we have an oppo ruckman not have a BOG then that’s a win for us. Rough year.

It’s why getting Cameron in the off season will help atleast break even again.

 

[eaglesnutcase]

Flynn shat on O’Brien! Really good effort! STOP kicking across the goal face !
Ginbey, Macarthy and Hough is a really good back three. Throw in HEd as the monster forward matchup and our backline is taking serious shape.We are much better with Hough back!
If Chesser had kicked straight we’d have erected a statue to him at halftime .
Cripps,Maric and esp Hewett what’s with not taking shorter options charging forward.We have guys loose everywhere short but we kick long to a one on one?? Go figure!
Brockman is classy but needs to do it every week
Duggo will get a holiday for the bump on Tilthorpe.Pity!

 

[chaddy22]

I know his ballwork sucks and he got pinged for that rough HTB after he earnt one, but he was a defensive beast in the 3rd and 4th I thought.


Curious as to how others saw it.

People see his mistakes but don't recognize that he also has some very good moments.

 

[Wce17]

We are already ahead of North in the rebuild from what I saw today. North for what they have and have been given should be a mile ahead

 

[bzparkes]

We are already ahead of North in the rebuild from what I saw today. North for what they have and have been given should be a mile ahead

North's problem is Clarkson. He's way past it.

Mini's basically proven that if you can get enough buy in, you can compete, even with a bunch of nobodies.

 

[UseR2006]

We are already ahead of North in the rebuild from what I saw today. North for what they have and have been given should be a mile ahead

We are WAYYYY worse than North and need all the assistance we could possibly get, First round picks, More list spots, extra soft cap, etc...

 

[chaddy22]

Flynn went to 73 ruck contests today - won 22 hit-outs.

Obrien also went to 74 ruck contests, won 51 hit-outs.

Adelaide had 18 centre clearance to 8 for West Coast.

I appreciate that is a combination of factors, those at ground level aren't at the same level as Adelaide, but seriously, Flynn does not give his mids much supply.

Haven't seen him break even or get close to it, ever.

Huge handicap on his side.

Have you seen bailey williams.

 

[Astro7]

There are lots of dump kicks every week across the AFL. But some only see Duggan’s. And even just one a game keeps the bias ticking over.

Oh, all Baker’s kicks are crap. Maric is soft. BWill can’t kick for goal. Petro is a champ.

What else?

Nothing else from me, they're all your words, not mine?
I'm sorry if you're a Duggan fan, I'm not.
It was his 200th and congrats on that!

 

[chaddy22]

Not a hot take, just surprised by the number of fans counting a ruck domination as a positive.

Almost like you have anti Naitanui disease, you have become numb to what a competent, AFL standard ruck looks like.

Anyway, Shanahan & Mcarthy can play.

You obviously didn't see Max Gawn take bailey Williams to pieces in hit outs and marks around the ground last week.
Flynn can at least take a contested mark.

 

[Broken_Chairs]

With great respect.

What are you guys watching?

Matt Flynn is the equivalent of a walking wicket in the centre square. He doesn't get his hands to the ball, can't jump and opposition sides can be so aggressive with their centre square set up.

He's nowhere near it. Letting his opponents rack up huge numbers

Yes, he's shit in the ruck contest. No one's celebrating his ruck work.

What people have been positive about has been his mark and contest game around the ground.

Other other ruck option is Bailey Williams, who is marginally better in the ruck, but gives us nothing around the ground. We need a real ruck.