Preview Round 22: Changes Vs Essendon + Pre-match discussion

Joao

Norm Smith Medallist
May 2, 2017
7,565
10,842
QLD
AFL Club
Fremantle
I must be one of the only ones on here that actually thinks Duman has what it takes to be a pretty damn good AFL player, he makes mistakes but he isn't alone in that area at the moment. I can't even really describe why I think he will be good it's just a gut feeling on him.

Banfield is the classic plays well as a mid in the WAFL. Comes in and plays defensive forward. Struggles. Dropped. Repeat. He isn't a forward and never will be so we either play him in the middle or we don't play him, pretty unfair to bring him in and expect him to perform in a position he clearly can't.

We have an AA forward playing 90% midfield and are playing Crowden/Banfield as small forwards. I like Sonny as a mid but I like him a hell of a lot more as a small forward with stints as a mid.
Agree with most of this except the last part. Sonny is most likely going to be AA playing mostly midfield this year. Still very capable of kicking goals from the middle and is very dangerous taking a midfielder forward.

The amount of people writing off 10 gamers on here baffles me. I fully accept that probably at least half of our young players won't make it, but some definitely will and to just rule lines through them at this point is ridiculous.

Young players are really inconsistent and often you can't even tell they have heaps of talent until much later. Try and be a little bit patient.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Halfbaked

Club Legend
Apr 18, 2014
1,373
2,006
AFL Club
Fremantle
The Ballas hate on here is fairly crap. The little bugger has given us all a truckload of highlights and has left it all on the field. Sure he has slowed a fair bit over the last few years but he deserves a bit of respect
While I agree with your sentiment, I truly can not get over him wanting to go to the egirls.
 

Stars align

Senior List
Jul 4, 2017
295
432
AFL Club
Richmond
Agree with most of this except the last part. Sonny is most likely going to be AA playing mostly midfield this year. Still very capable of kicking goals from the middle and is very dangerous taking a midfielder forward.

The amount of people writing off 10 gamers on here baffles me. I fully accept that probably at least half of our young players won't make it, but some definitely will and to just rule lines through them at this point is ridiculous.

Young players are really inconsistent and often you can't even tell they have heaps of talent until much later. Try and be a little bit patient.
Peels midfield smashed on Saturday resulting in 7 inside 50 entries in the first half.still have to keep structure in forward half and unlike u/16s can’t just run around chasing kicks
Really tough first half for the forwards
Peel kids did marginally better in the second half but got no clean ball resulting in a lot of kicks landing on the heads of the talls
On the occasion the kids won clean ball there woeful foot skills saw balls going everywhere but to the leading target
 

dont bowl there

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 25, 2006
7,084
1,241
Melbourne
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Atlanta Hawks, Birmingham City
Agree with most of this except the last part. Sonny is most likely going to be AA playing mostly midfield this year. Still very capable of kicking goals from the middle and is very dangerous taking a midfielder forward.

The amount of people writing off 10 gamers on here baffles me. I fully accept that probably at least half of our young players won't make it, but some definitely will and to just rule lines through them at this point is ridiculous.

Young players are really inconsistent and often you can't even tell they have heaps of talent until much later. Try and be a little bit patient.
I get the people that think Sonny should be playing midfield, he is well above average boarding on elite in that area however finding an elite forward is one of the hardest things in the AFL. That's where I would be playing him but Sonny as a mid certainly isn't the worst thing we could be doing, far far from it.
 

Joao

Norm Smith Medallist
May 2, 2017
7,565
10,842
QLD
AFL Club
Fremantle
I get the people that think Sonny should be playing midfield, he is well above average boarding on elite in that area however finding an elite forward is one of the hardest things in the AFL. That's where I would be playing him but Sonny as a mid certainly isn't the worst thing we could be doing, far far from it.
Why do you want Sonny playing forward? To kick goals (and set them up) yeah?

The problem with your argument is that he kicks as many or more goals as a mid/for rather than the other way around. He is easily more damaging up the ground because he can kick and still does plenty of good in the forward half.
 

dont bowl there

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 25, 2006
7,084
1,241
Melbourne
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Atlanta Hawks, Birmingham City
Why do you want Sonny playing forward? To kick goals (and set them up) yeah?

The problem with your argument is that he kicks as many or more goals as a mid/for rather than the other way around. He is easily more damaging up the ground because he can kick and still does plenty of good in the forward half.
He is always a danger when we go inside 50, that's why I would prefer him playing mostly as a forward.
 

wild side

Premiership Player
Mar 29, 2010
3,748
2,997
perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Gonna get beat, may as well play some kids.
Give us something to look forward to ffs.
Be my last game as a card carrying member.
I'm going to wing it next year, won't be alone either
 

dont bowl there

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 25, 2006
7,084
1,241
Melbourne
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Atlanta Hawks, Birmingham City
That's intangible and not any sort of good argument.

What actually matters is his output, and he still kicks plenty of goals from midfield.
IMO the team is best served with him playing the majority of the game as a forward. The output his alternative gives as a forward is greatly less than that of an alternative mid. That’s my reasoning for playing a top 5 small forward as a small forward.
 

Joao

Norm Smith Medallist
May 2, 2017
7,565
10,842
QLD
AFL Club
Fremantle
IMO the team is best served with him playing the majority of the game as a forward. The output his alternative gives as a forward is greatly less than that of an alternative mid. That’s my reasoning for playing a top 5 small forward as a small forward.
That doesn't follow. If he goes forward he might kick 2 goals per game. He already kicks that as a mid. Then you have to find a midfielder that is better than him (without even considering what the other small forward does) just to break even. What other mid do we have to play his mid role? The only other kick of his standard is Mundy. Every other option does not use the ball like he does which is his strength in the middle.

If Brayshaw and Cerra (need both as Mundy is on the way out) hit their straps say next year, I might agree with you to some extent, but they are different players too. We'd really need another quality foot user in the middle before I would be sure it was a good idea to leave him forward.
 

dont bowl there

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 25, 2006
7,084
1,241
Melbourne
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Atlanta Hawks, Birmingham City
That doesn't follow. If he goes forward he might kick 2 goals per game. He already kicks that as a mid. Then you have to find a midfielder that is better than him (without even considering what the other small forward does) just to break even. What other mid do we have to play his mid role? The only other kick of his standard is Mundy. Every other option does not use the ball like he does which is his strength in the middle.

If Brayshaw and Cerra (need both as Mundy is on the way out) hit their straps say next year, I might agree with you to some extent, but they are different players too. We'd really need another quality foot user in the middle before I would be sure it was a good idea to leave him forward.
Well it does follow, we don't even have a C grade small forward on our list outside of Sonny who in my opinion is an A to an A+ small forward. Therefore I would be playing him primarily as a small forward. That's my reasoning.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Joao

Norm Smith Medallist
May 2, 2017
7,565
10,842
QLD
AFL Club
Fremantle
Well it does follow, we don't even have a C grade small forward on our list outside of Sonny who in my opinion is an A to an A+ small forward. Therefore I would be playing him primarily as a small forward. That's my reasoning.
To what end? Why do you want Sonny forward? What does it give the team?
 

dont bowl there

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 25, 2006
7,084
1,241
Melbourne
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Atlanta Hawks, Birmingham City
To what end? Why do you want Sonny forward? What does it give the team?
It gives the team a genuine A grade small forward in place of at best a C grade. C grade is being incredibly generous as a C is a pass and I wouldn't give any of our small forwards a pass mark. I have made my reasoning pretty clear, you don't agree which is fine.
 

Joao

Norm Smith Medallist
May 2, 2017
7,565
10,842
QLD
AFL Club
Fremantle
It gives the team a genuine A grade small forward in place of at best a C grade. C grade is being incredibly generous as a C is a pass and I wouldn't give any of our small forwards a pass mark. I have made my reasoning pretty clear, you don't agree which is fine.
Your reasoning is clear, it isn't sound though.
 

dont bowl there

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 25, 2006
7,084
1,241
Melbourne
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Atlanta Hawks, Birmingham City
Pretty much. Doesn't mean I am right, but my chances of being right are much better than yours.

I put specifics to mine. All you talk about is feelings and grades.
Your specifics are that he kicks as many goals as a mid than a forward. But as a forward he draws defenders which then creates space and opportunities for the other forwards. Right now if you were a small defender who would you even care about? Switta can’t kick a goal to save his life and the rest are worse.

Feeling and grades they are all part of an opinion I have that playing one of the best small forwards in the AFL forward is the right move for the team. Your opinion isn’t based on facts by the way.
 

apuchar

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 21, 2010
12,114
6,128
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Perth Football Club
Can I propose a compromise. Let him play high half forward. I think guys like Cerra etc should be given first option in the midfield. Sonny could run through there as a part of the rotation. High half forward will also help when he gets smothered as a permanent forward.
 

Joao

Norm Smith Medallist
May 2, 2017
7,565
10,842
QLD
AFL Club
Fremantle
Your specifics are that he kicks as many goals as a mid than a forward. But as a forward he draws defenders which then creates space and opportunities for the other forwards. Right now if you were a small defender who would you even care about? Switta can’t kick a goal to save his life and the rest are worse.

Feeling and grades they are all part of an opinion I have that playing one of the best small forwards in the AFL forward is the right move for the team. Your opinion isn’t based on facts by the way.
He does kick a comparable amount. When he was stuck permanent forward last year (maybe it was 2017, don't remember) in the first however many rounds he barely touched the ball and kicked around 1 gpg.

Just because Switta isn't good, doesn't mean you don't have to defend him. I could literally kick goals in the AFL if nobody went near me. He doesn't draw multiple defenders like a good KPF does because he is not a significant threat in the air. Fyfe does when he goes forward for that exact reason. He may create space for others better but I can't tell how good our smalls are at that because I rarely get to games. That is usually driven by the talls. Sonny is excellent at finding space when drifting down from midfield. Space he probably doesn't get if he is stationed in the F50 with an actual defender on him all game.

I never said facts (because I am too lazy to look them up). I said specifics. Neither of us are using anything that would be considered facts I don't think.

Also, I never said you couldn't form an opinion, or that you couldn't use those things in doing so. All I said was it was likely wrong as a result.

Can I propose a compromise. Let him play high half forward. I think guys like Cerra etc should be given first option in the midfield. Sonny could run through there as a part of the rotation. High half forward will also help when he gets smothered as a permanent forward.
Our forwards do come a long way back so it would probably be ok. Personally think he will be back 50%+ forward in a couple of years when he gets a bit older and we have developed more midfield depth. Same for Fyfe. Should be able to stretch out both careers by keeping them forward more in their 30s.
 

Top Bottom