Autopsy Round 23, 2019: Sydney v St.Kilda *2019 PRIDE GAME*

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Jade Buddha

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Nov 16, 2014
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I liked that Ratten was unimpressed with our allowance of the party tricks for Sydney’s retirees.
That really got up my nose. Right there the Pride we were supposed to be showing went completely out of the game.
 

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mightymalaka

What we have here is a failure to communicate!
May 7, 2018
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After reading this thread, i am tempted to step straight back into prison
And just close myself alltogether from the outside world!

For what it's worth!

There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
Young people speaking their mind
Getting so much resistance from behind!
 

NextYearPlease

Debutant
Oct 28, 2018
109
252
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And it’s not even true anyway that people from club land don’t care about social media and chat boards. The 76’ers social media controversy shows clubs and presidents love to try and manipulate opinions on boards and social media when they can:

Bloody Russians, or was it the Chinese?
 

austinnn

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A low membership base is no good irrespective of the teams on field performance.

Does cancelling your membership improve the chances of us getting better people into the club?
With less money coming through, are we able to pump money back into the football department?
Will we be able to hire people of better quality/experience?
How about our sponsors? What are the chances we sign better sponsors or more lucrative off-field deals?

We will need to keep doing things like playing in China and looking at other obscure ways to earn money because we don't have the support from our fans.

We're all in this together. The club needs to get better but it can't get better without any money or a strong backing from it's fans.

People can be in denial about that fact if they want. That's not my problem. It's obvious how much a club is affected by a low membership base.
I agree and normally I'd be banging the drum like you for supporter support, but this week I got a full taste of the frustration of the disenchanted - not a whiff like the smell of a BBQ in the neighbourhood but a confronting and complex hot mess that you have time to analyse like when you are obliged to eat the "dinner" your 8 y.o. son made you.

A loyal helper like yourself might have difficulty relating to this, but it's possible that the folks threatening to cash out and leave don't care what happens to the club, and would be indifferent to its destruction.

I remember watching a TV report aghast in the weeks of the SOS campaign back in the 90s. The bit that shocked me was the Vox Pop. An elderly supporter said something like "I don't care if the club get merged or die out, they've caused me enough heartache, I can't take anymore!"

At the time I just couldn't comprehend that level of disenchantment, like when you see in some TV drama parents giving up on their junkie son. I couldn't understand why you could abandon something you loved.

But it stayed with me, knocking around in the back of my mind, a faint bell ringing whenever the club's situation started getting mouldy.

Its one thing for the club to fail because of bad breaks like the 09/10 GFs - every club has poor luck that costs dearly. And it's one thing to have certain eras of incompetence or disfunction. But time and time again, we go three steps forward, two back through bad appointments, poor governance, shambolic recruitment, or simply no clear direction as a club.

Sometimes you just want to cut your ties and leave them to their fate, whatever it may be. It's an emotive stance but it's an emotional pasttime, and football support without emotions would merely be a pov version of the stock market.

We have heard in the last two years of the club busting their arses trying to communicate with lapsed members and long-term members and bring them back which is admirable. It must burn the boilers if the folks at the club who did all that hard work to see games like yesterday where players don't put in. All that work.

Since 2011, all that we've had is bullshit with nuggets of gold here and there. The Carlisle trade was great, the Snapchat scandal and subsequent injuries not so much. Is he ECO or just injured? Either way now, expendable.

Billings is one of our most skilled players and now one of our leaders, Gresh is one of our best too. Neither are consistently match winners for us and often go missing. Can we expect the same from Clark and Coffield?

Our drafting has been good the last couple of years from the high and low ends but we're still paying dearly for the Trout years and before. Our recent future is littered with paid professionals who have taken our club nowhere good. Cox, the cricket guy that we thought would make a great footy ops manager. Dixon the goalkicking specialist who couldn't teach a baby to suckle its mother's teat. Richardson who created a team in his image: hard, willing, positive, dull, linear, rigid, brittle, limited.

How long have we had goalkicking problems, skill problems, decision making problems? Leadership problems? Years. Anything the club has done to address this has failed.

And when we do get it right, the AFL changes the rules to screw us, exhibit A: the 3rd man up ruck rules. Exhibit B, umpiring, noted in 2018.

As others have noted, I'm losing faith in the organisation to deal with problems effectively and to be competitive as a sporting entity. They've certainly addressed their off fields deficiencies and Finnis deserves credit for this. Can they get it right on field? We're slowly building a list but we can't afford for the next senior coach to be substandard, and it's such a hard appointment to get right.

I'm more optimistic than Gringo, but I am just sick of it going wrong and if we can't get it right, I'm not going to keep standing around hoping, and more importantly, I don't give a monkeys about it being the last game of a disappointing season, I expect more than the half hearted garbage that was served up to paid up members, some travelling interstate, yesterday.
 
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pebblesofsand

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Oct 18, 2011
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After reading this thread, i am tempted to step straight back into prison
And just close myself alltogether from the outside world!

For what it's worth!

There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
Young people speaking their mind
Getting so much resistance from behind!
 

Saint Shags

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Is this the Autopsy thread

if there complaints to be made use the report button on the btm left , I think that is what it is for.
And that is all well and good. Reporting is good.
I would suggest that a couple of posters may want to have all facts in front of them before sprouting crap whilst the person who is being badmouthed can't actually stick up for themselves due to a suspension. Comes across as weak.
That isn't directed at you btw.
 

Mowman

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And that is all well and good. Reporting is good.
I would suggest that a couple of posters may want to have all facts in front of them before sprouting crap whilst the person who is being badmouthed can't actually stick up for themselves due to a suspension. Comes across as weak.
That isn't directed at you btw.
I would maybe suggest you follow your own advice here
You have come in very late on this one and many many post have been removed, maybe ask yourself why some have been suspended
And maybe you shouldn't be calling people weak without knowing the facts, comes across as foolish
 

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Pakenhamsaint

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Sure, and that's not what I'm arguing.
People use team performance as a point on whether they spend money or not. Right now there will be thousands of saints members going "Was this year worth spending *Insert thier cost of membership* for or could that money go to something else"
Last year 2600 odd people made the call that thier money could be better spent.

We won't be the only club in that boat nor the only code.
 

triggering bro

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Aug 30, 2017
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I missed whatever went on, I watched a movie with my wife.

When I read the thread this morning we had a few who had been given a holiday, not particularly uncommon on here.
A long & frustrating season has come to an end & some posters struggle to keep their cool in such instances. Hopefully the blokes & gals running the club we ALL love have a cooler head & make the necessary changes to take the club forward which hopefully makes for a less frustrating 2020 season.

PS The mods do a brilliant job cleaning up the mess we have ALL been responsible for at one time or another.
 

Saint Shags

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I would maybe suggest you follow your own advice here
You have come in very late on this one and many many post have been removed, maybe ask yourself why some have been suspended
And maybe you shouldn't be calling people weak without knowing the facts, comes across as foolish
Hahaha you might be surprised how much I actually know. And perhaps a lot more than yourself. I would suggest that before going off halfcocked and trying to be all high and mighty about it.
If there is one that should be perma banned it isn't the one you are hoping for.
 

Mowman

Premium Gold
May 19, 2013
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Hahaha you might be surprised how much I actually know. And perhaps a lot more than yourself. I would suggest that before going off halfcocked and trying to be all high and mighty about it.
If there is one that should be perma banned it isn't the one you are hoping for.
Again follow your own advice
Have a great night won't reply to you again
 

George

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I agree and normally I'd be banging the drum like you for supporter support, but this week I got a full taste of the frustration of the disenchanted - not a whiff like the smell of a BBQ in the neighbourhood but a confronting and complex hot mess that you have time to analyse like when you are obliged to eat the "dinner" your 8 y.o. son made you.

A loyal helper like yourself might have difficulty relating to this, but it's possible that the folks threatening to cash out and leave don't care what happens to the club, and would be indifferent to its destruction.

I remember watching a TV report aghast in the weeks of the SOS campaign back in the 90s. The bit that shocked me was the Vox Pop. An elderly supporter said something like "I don't care if the club get merged or die out, they've caused me enough heartache, I can't take anymore!"

At the time I just couldn't comprehend that level of disenchantment, like when you see in some TV drama parents giving up on their junkie son. I couldn't understand why you could abandon something you loved.

But it stayed with me, knocking around in the back of my mind, a faint bell ringing whenever the club's situation started getting mouldy.

Its one thing for the club to fail because of bad breaks like the 09/10 GFs - every club has poor luck that costs dearly. And it's one thing to have certain eras of incompetence or disfunction. But time and time again, we go three steps forward, two back through bad appointments, poor governance, shambolic recruitment, or simply no clear direction as a club.

Sometimes you just want to cut your ties and leave them to their fate, whatever it may be. It's an emotive stance but it's an emotional pasttime, and football support without emotions would merely be a pov version of the stock market.

We have heard in the last two years of the club busting their arses trying to communicate with lapsed members and long-term members and bring them back which is admirable. It must burn the boilers if the folks at the club who did all that hard work to see games like yesterday where players don't put in. All that work.

Since 2011, all that we've had is bulls**t with nuggets of gold here and there. The Carlisle trade was great, the Snapchat scandal and subsequent injuries not so much. Is he ECO or just injured? Either way now, expendable.

Billings is one of our most skilled players and now one of our leaders, Gresh is one of our best too. Neither are consistently match winners for us and often go missing. Can we expect the same from Clark and Coffield?

Our drafting has been good the last couple of years from the high and low ends but we're still paying dearly for the Trout years and before. Our recent future is littered with paid professionals who have taken our club nowhere good. Cox, the cricket guy that we thought would make a great footy ops manager. Dixon the goalkicking specialist who couldn't teach a baby to suckle its mother's test. Richardson who created a team in his image: hard, willing, positive, dull, linear, rigid, brittle, limited.

How long have we had goalkicking problems, skill problems, decision making problems? Leadership problems? Years. Anything the club has done to address this has failed.

And when we do get it right, the AFL changes the rules to screw us, exhibit A: the 3rd man up ruck rules. Exhibit B, umpiring, noted in 2018.

As others have noted, I'm losing faith in the organisation to deal with problems effectively and to be competitive as a sporting entity. They've certainly addressed their off fields deficiencies and Finnis deserves credit for this. Can they get it right on field? We're slowly building a list but we can't afford for the next senior coach to be substandard, and it's such a hard appointment to get right.

I'm more optimistic than Gringo, but I am just sick of it going wrong and if we can't get it right, I'm not going to keep standing around hoping, and more importantly, I don't give a monkeys about it being the last game of a disappointing season, I expect more than the half hearted garbage that was served up to paid up members, some travelling interstate, yesterday.
Well there's plenty wrong with this post.

Billings not consistent? Has been for two full seasons now.

Of course if people say they don't care about the football club then they should expect some backlash for their comments from people who actually do care about the club. That is obvious. You and others seem to not understand that because the team isn't performing as well as we would like does not mean the club as a whole is run poorly. Snapchat scandal was while Carlisle was at Essendon if you have forgotten. It's just that it was released the day after we signed him - not our fault whatsoever so I don't know why you blame the club for that.

We have had leadership problems for years? That's a stretch. I guess Riewoldt and co you've forgotten about. I would say we have a young list with lack of quality talent that as a list has been compromised by compromised drafts during 2011 and 2012 when Gold Coast and GWS took all the elite talent, leaving clubs that were struggling at the time (US) in an even worse position. No wonder we had to cut and cut hard. We needed to find other ways of bringing in elite talent because drafting it at the time was near on impossible.

You really think that the AFL changed the rules just to screw us? And you think the umpires have an agenda against us? .........

You credit Finnis but say since 2011 all we've had is bullshit. So which one is it. Finnis is the best thing that has happened to our football club in a long long time. Everything was trending upwards at the end of 2017. Finnis shouldn't have extended Richardson's contract prematurely, and is probably his only real mistake. But in saying that - nobody expected 2018. I don't think any of us here had us finishing on 4 wins last year. So what did we do? We bolstered the football department. We brought in Graeme Allan and Billy Slater. Simon Lethlean came to oversee the football department after a long and successful career in the AFL. We turfed almost all the assistant coaches and brought in Brendon Lade, Jake Batchelor & Brett Ratten. And the result? We doubled our win tally. What is the constant theme of the last two seasons however is the glaring absence of star quality. Those players I mentioned before that were drafted in 2011 and 2012 to the Suns and Giants have just started to really hit their straps. Gee, I wish we could've had access to them too.

Ratten said it best re the performance on Saturday. We butchered the ball around the ground and in front of goal, and he has identified the need to bring in better users. Something Richardson failed to do and something Richardson seemingly dismissed, playing players who constantly turned the ball over on the basis of their work rate and compettiiveness. Ratten is a different person, has a different idea of how we should play and if he gets the job I'm positive next year we will pick players based on skill first and foremost.

People use team performance as a point on whether they spend money or not. Right now there will be thousands of saints members going "Was this year worth spending *Insert thier cost of membership* for or could that money go to something else"
Last year 2600 odd people made the call that thier money could be better spent.

We won't be the only club in that boat nor the only code.
It doesn't take away from the FACT that people withdrawing financially does not benefit the club. Some people don't seem to realise the impact it actually has.
 

jwikked

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It doesn't take away from the FACT that people withdrawing financially does not benefit the club. Some people don't seem to realise the impact it actually has.

No, I think they do realise what impact it has.

The idea is to make the club realise that what they are doing isn't making the supporters happy and to not renew a membership is a great way of sending a message to the club that things need to change.

Have a look at the Adelaide board on Bigfooty, there's so many people talking about not renewing their memberships next year and the whole reason is to send a message to the hierarchy at the Crows that what they're doing is unacceptable to the fans.
Should those fans continue to blindly support a team that is continuing to fail off field? After Ricciuto's comments this arvo, I'd be ******* fuming and would cancel my membership just based on that.

For you to continually push the "supporters need to support no matter what happens" is just bizarre.
 

George

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No, I think they do realise what impact it has.

The idea is to make the club realise that what they are doing isn't making the supporters happy and to not renew a membership is a great way of sending a message to the club that things need to change.

Have a look at the Adelaide board on Bigfooty, there's so many people talking about not renewing their memberships next year and the whole reason is to send a message to the hierarchy at the Crows that what they're doing is unacceptable to the fans.
Should those fans continue to blindly support a team that is continuing to fail off field? After Ricciuto's comments this arvo, I'd be ******* fuming and would cancel my membership just based on that.

For you to continually push the "supporters need to support no matter what happens" is just bizarre.
Why does buying a membership somehow mean you blindly support the football club? You can still voice your displeasure and at the same time back them financially. I don't see how that's so difficult. What is bizarre however is thinking that not helping out in this way will be a good thing for the club.
 

jwikked

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Why does buying a membership somehow mean you blindly support the football club? You can still voice your displeasure and at the same time back them financially. I don't see how that's so difficult. What is bizarre however is thinking that not helping out in this way will be a good thing for the club.
Because at the end of the day, money talks. If a football club continually accepts mediocrity and doesn't focus on improvement then why would someone want to support that administration? If someone isn't happy, why would they spend money supporting a club with no interest in listening to them?

Not buying a membership is a far bigger statement than a sternly worded email that won't be read.
 

gringo2011

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But poor performances are often the trigger to get rid of a membership. It becomes harder to justify it when money gets tough or people have other commitments.

That's my wife. I have to pay out of my business account so she doesn't see it. When my son was talking about how we have 4 memevberships still she's cracked the shits. She's studying so we aren't as well off any more. I could justify it easier to her when we were going to more games. I told her I'd go down to two next year, probably won't but it's tempting. I might drop the dog one instead.
 

gringo2011

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Why does buying a membership somehow mean you blindly support the football club? You can still voice your displeasure and at the same time back them financially. I don't see how that's so difficult. What is bizarre however is thinking that not helping out in this way will be a good thing for the club.

I think if you get nothing out of it it becomes easy. I know a guy who has just lost interest and stopped his membership. He still takes an interest but lost his passion. He didn't get to games and follows the Storm instead.
 

George

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Because at the end of the day, money talks. If a football club continually accepts mediocrity and doesn't focus on improvement then why would someone want to support that administration? If someone isn't happy, why would they spend money supporting a club with no interest in listening to them?

Not buying a membership is a far bigger statement than a sternly worded email that won't be read.
Do you really think that the club is accepting mediocrity and isn't focused on improvement? What would you call what we did in the off-season last year after a four win year?

Club does listen and does read e-mails, sorry if you think otherwise.
 

jwikked

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Do you really think that the club is accepting mediocrity and isn't focused on improvement? What would you call what we did in the off-season last year after a four win year?
You're missing the point. Instead of listening to the points you're still ultra defensive.
I'm not taking a side, I'm just giving context for why some would want to give their membership up. It's not as simple as merely buying one no matter what kind of bullshit the club does.
 

George

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You're missing the point. Instead of listening to the points you're still ultra defensive.
I'm not taking a side, I'm just giving context for why some would want to give their membership up. It's not as simple as merely buying one no matter what kind of bulls**t the club does.
No I'm listening. I just think it's ridiculous for people to expect us to improve but then go and withdraw their support. Support is a big part of what we will need to be able to improve. If we drop in membership we drop in attendance we drop in sponsorship we drop in luring quality players across we drop in making good appointments and we drop in the overall state of the club.

It's not the only factor but it is one of them and it's a big part of it.

You or anyone can withdraw their support if they like but don't expect us to improve because of it.
 
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