Review Round 23, 2022 - Brisbane Lions vs. Melbourne

[On the quiet]

Didn't watch it but not sure Harris was at fault for at least one of the switches - the one between him and Payne seemed pretty clearly to be on Jack, as he hadn't even been bumped out of it or blocked by Gawn at all.

Yeah I reckon it was probably more Payne, but both of them have some fault as Andrews could have gone immediately when Payne directed him. Jackson (not Gawn) did not seem to put on a block, so in hindsight with Payne's greater speed he should have went. I think it is a really good example of a young guy who does not get to play consistently with the same backline at AFL level just getting a little confused.

I am not a fan of the zone defence, well structured teams like Melbourne and Richmond this week will exploit us, as Rich, Gardiner and Andrews are too slow and Kiddy is more an attacking type defender. Make it 1 v 1 and then you are accountable rather than this handing over, and diluting the ultimate responsibility. There were multiple instances on Friday night of all the defenders handing over resulting in a poor outcome. A number did involve Andrews though.

 

[mattsmob]

Im annoyed by Coleman. He plays like he is Pendelbury on a million bucks and lacks that defensive instinct to play back. He gets caught ball watching, he loses touch on his man and ends up out of position consistently. He is second to the contest and we get burned. It becomes a lot worse when we play against teams with high quality small forwards as they can exploit that match up easily. We can't afford this luxury if we are also playing Rich who is moving like a dump truck and also struggles to defend his man. Its not like Coleman doesnt know how to tackle or do that rough defensive stuff. He achieved that bone crunching tackle on Dusty in our previous finals win. He's just not doing it at the moment. It seems he has been huffing his own farts too much the last few weeks.

Coleman needs to learn that his responsibility is his man first. It doesnt matter if he starts 5 offensive scoring chains if he is giving up 5+ scoring shots to his opponent. He needs to watch how Jack Crisp plays. Jack Crisp is a solid defender but then uses his pace and kicking skills to really open up the game.

Id feel more confident with Ah Chee and Prior in the back line than Coleman at the moment. Hopefully Fagan gets Coleman refocussed this week on his defensive efforts.

Definitely has lapses throughout a game defensively but he’s probably our hardest working defender when it comes to overlap running and trying to provide run and carry so I give him a bit of slack for that. On turnover it explains why he might be out of position or gassed trying to get back. When he is locked in defensively I think he’s very good though, had a few really impressive moments against the Saints following Butler around stoppages and shutting him down.

 

[mpal6]

Im annoyed by Coleman. He plays like he is Pendelbury on a million bucks and lacks that defensive instinct to play back. He gets caught ball watching, he loses touch on his man and ends up out of position consistently. He is second to the contest and we get burned. It becomes a lot worse when we play against teams with high quality small forwards as they can exploit that match up easily. We can't afford this luxury if we are also playing Rich who is moving like a dump truck and also struggles to defend his man. Its not like Coleman doesnt know how to tackle or do that rough defensive stuff. He achieved that bone crunching tackle on Dusty in our previous finals win. He's just not doing it at the moment. It seems he has been huffing his own farts too much the last few weeks.

Coleman needs to learn that his responsibility is his man first. It doesnt matter if he starts 5 offensive scoring chains if he is giving up 5+ scoring shots to his opponent. He needs to watch how Jack Crisp plays. Jack Crisp is a solid defender but then uses his pace and kicking skills to really open up the game.

Id feel more confident with Ah Chee and Prior in the back line than Coleman at the moment. Hopefully Fagan gets Coleman refocussed this week on his defensive efforts.

One of the few blokes who can actually rebound and has the skills to start a scoring chain. If he's absolutely gassed running back to cover, I won't be that hard on him. It gets pretty difficult against top teams where all the small forwards can hurt you one way or another.

Coleman may not have the full body maturity to gut run and do it both ways, but his value in enabling our scoring means I'm happy for him to cheat forward and try to deal with defensive gaps using others.

 

[LongLion]

We are going to challenge Rayner's suspension & rightly so. Have accepted Answerths ban

 

[Tassie4ever]

The thought occurred during discussion with a fellow sufferer. Is there any way we can clone Martin Pike

Martin Pike

Age

52

Ht

189cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.2

4star

K

9.6

4star

HB

4.5

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.8

4star

No current season stats available

D

12.4

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

5.6

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

0.6

3star

? A couple of big, no-crap blokes who say through me or not at all. Even a thug like May would be acceptable. Marginally.

And I don't know about anyone else bit I'm sick of the "we broke even if the second half"crap. The reality is we got thrashed. After 10mins blind freddy could predict a hiding and that we were totally intimidated. Personally I thought Melbourne took the foot off the gas to set themselves up for later proceedings

At least with a Pike or two the D's wouldn't get away with virtually bruise-free football. The most upsetting thing for me on Friday was sight of the Melbourne backs in a laughing get together- "how easy is this???".

Just another thought- in a top side like the D's if anyone doesn't perform it's see ya later. The pressure is on for young and old. Don't honestly know what any of out team needs to not do to get dropped. I know that there aren't all that many Reserves candidates putting themselves forward for promotion, having watched the 2's on Saturday. However, a bit of pressure from the rear can't do any harm, surely.

Correction from an earlier post. Mitch collected 42, not 40, possessions in the 2's, having turned out the night before. Against an unbeaten side. Can see why he's not getting a run-on game.

 

[McIvor]

One of the few blokes who can actually rebound and has the skills to start a scoring chain. If he's absolutely gassed running back to cover, I won't be that hard on him. It gets pretty difficult against top teams where all the small forwards can hurt you one way or another.

Coleman may not have the full body maturity to gut run and do it both ways, but his value in enabling our scoring means I'm happy for him to cheat forward and try to deal with defensive gaps using others.

I think with some of the younger guys that are our future, you have to be a little lenient on them by getting big game experience into them and exposed to the better opposition players, within reason of course. For me, this extends to the likes of Coleman, Payne, Prior and should include Dev Robertson and will be the likes of Ashcroft, Lohmann and Wilmont next year, who are all very promising .

 

[Nathan Barley]

Amongst all the Zorko talk I don't think anyone has mentioned yet that Daly is a cancer survivor

Surely there is some sort of punishment that they're maybe trying to hide

 

[mattsmob]

Amongst all the Zorko talk I don't think anyone has mentioned yet that Daly is a cancer survivor

Surely there is some sort of punishment that they're maybe trying to hide

Didn’t know that, could also be the case that there’s two weeks before our next game and the club is trying to get all the facts before coming to a decision. It’s a pretty big deal and I wouldn’t be surprised if they take their time coming to a conclusion about what to do.

 

[JoeDanihersMoustache]

What do we think of the criticism of Fagan coaching from the interchange bench? Would he benefit at all from going into the coaches box?

 

[Gadzorks]

What do we think of the criticism of Fagan coaching from the interchange bench? Would he benefit at all from going into the coaches box?

We sit on the lowest level, not far from the coaches box.

Great seats. We can hear the thump as tackles are laid, and we can see the effort the players are putting in by their facial expressions.

We have sat in the higher levels and, on two memorable occasions, in a corporate box.

What we see at the higher levels but not in our normal seats, is the team structure, the set up changes for attack and defence during play, and the way players are interacting with each other.

I don't believe a coach on the sideline can see or react to what is unfolding during the game.

 

[Nathan Barley]

We sit on the lowest level, not far from the coaches box.

Great seats. We can hear the thump as tackles are laid, and we can see the effort the players are putting in by their facial expressions.

We have sat in the higher levels and, on two memorable occasions, in a corporate box.

What we see at the higher levels but not in our normal seats, is the team structure, the set up changes for attack and defence during play, and the way players are interacting with each other.

I don't believe a coach on the sideline can see or react to what is unfolding during the game.

Unless the dozen coaches up in the coaches box are feeding him information

 

[Gadzorks]

Unless the dozen coaches up in the coaches box are feeding him information

Exactly, but that's a lot of trust on Fagan's part.

Personally I'd like confidence in the head coaches ability to see what the assistants see, but to also have a higher insight into what's happening and what to do to counteract the opposition.

Put Hodge on as game day tactician, put him in the box and Fagan dealing with the players on the bench. Perfection!!

 

[Big Sauce 21]

Think there's more coaches on the bench now then there is in the box.

 

[JoeDanihersMoustache]

So if we’re placing bets who’s most to blame for friday’s loss? The personnel in the box, the bench or on the field?

 

[Sanchez365]

I blame the bench itself

 

[Gadzorks]

So if we’re placing bets who’s most to blame for friday’s loss? The personnel in the box, the bench or on the field?

The recruiters. We just don't have the midfield talent and power needed for a premiership.

 

[NotQuiteJezza]

I can’t believe the club is fully backing Zorko publicly. Members will vote with their money next year.

 

[M Malice]

Unless the dozen coaches up in the coaches box are feeding him information

I would rather see Fagan change it up and go up into the box and make his own judgment and send one of the assistants down to the bench, get a more overall feel for the game up higher IMO.

I have sat down in the lower levels and hate it, completely different perspective, unlikely he would do it this late in the season though, it would be a 2023 thing if at all.

 

[McIvor]

I can’t believe the club is fully backing Zorko publicly. Members will vote with their money next year.

Problem is, the final will be a sell out which in the clubs eyes and powers that be, will vindicate its decision to not do anything. Again they will justify it that supporters are supportive of its decision and therefore nothing to see.

Our family will not not renew our membership but the adults in our family all cant wait for a Lions team without Zorko in it.

 

[T Rick]

I can’t believe the club is fully backing Zorko publicly. Members will vote with their money next year.

Nah

 

[dlanod]

Members will vote with their money next year.

Some will, but I think you're overestimating how much influence the footy media actually has over the average Qld AFL supporter. We're more likely to see a drop back because of results on the field (not finishing top 4, possibly losing in the first week of finals) than because of Zorko's stupidity and the club's response.

 

[luthor]

Some will, but I think you're overestimating how much influence the footy media actually has over the average Qld AFL supporter. We're more likely to see a drop back because of results on the field (not finishing top 4, possibly losing in the first week of finals) than because of Zorko's stupidity and the club's response.

I agree.

Outrage is a transient thing.

Remember when Jeremy Cameron assaulted Harris Andrews a few years ago and Harris ended up in hospital the next day with a brain bleed?

Cameron got booed a bit the next time he came to town but the whole thing has pretty much disappeared from the collective memories if anyone who gave a shit at the time.

When Kerr sacked Whitlam on 11.11.75, there was a public outcry at the injustice of it all.

Gough stood on the steps of the Old Parliament House and passionately implored the Australian people to "maintain the rage"

They didn't

Pragmatism quickly set in and Malcolm Fraser got elected in a landslide, despite the "dismissal" being one the most reprehensible and cynical political manouvres of all time

 

[twhowler]

Exactly, but that's a lot of trust on Fagan's part.

Personally I'd like confidence in the head coaches ability to see what the assistants see, but to also have a higher insight into what's happening and what to do to counteract the opposition.

Put Hodge on as game day tactician, put him in the box and Fagan dealing with the players on the bench. Perfection!!

A few coaches seem to be at ground level. But most I think go down there as a bit of a tactic to fire up the players?

I think the ground-level coach makes sense for a young team where the players need to get the message straight from the coach about a new game-plan etc.

For a seasoned coach and team I don't really get the ground-level coaching. Fagan should be able to trust the players will be putting in, and be more focused on the tactial battle with other coaches. It seems to me telling that we never seem to react to surprises from the other side. I remember v GWS in Brisbane Fagan saying they started thinking should they put someone behind the ball, but by the time they were going to we had steadied anyway. The Giants smashed us for at least 15 minutes so that seems like a slow reaction time.

 

[NotQuiteJezza]

The thought occurred during discussion with a fellow sufferer. Is there any way we can clone Martin Pike? A couple of big, no-crap blokes who say through me or not at all. Even a thug like May would be acceptable. Marginally.

And I don't know about anyone else bit I'm sick of the "we broke even if the second half"crap. The reality is we got thrashed. After 10mins blind freddy could predict a hiding and that we were totally intimidated. Personally I thought Melbourne took the foot off the gas to set themselves up for later proceedings

At least with a Pike or two the D's wouldn't get away with virtually bruise-free football. The most upsetting thing for me on Friday was sight of the Melbourne backs in a laughing get together- "how easy is this???".

Just another thought- in a top side like the D's if anyone doesn't perform it's see ya later. The pressure is on for young and old. Don't honestly know what any of out team needs to not do to get dropped. I know that there aren't all that many Reserves candidates putting themselves forward for promotion, having watched the 2's on Saturday. However, a bit of pressure from the rear can't do any harm, surely.

Correction from an earlier post. Mitch collected 42, not 40, possessions in the 2's, having turned out the night before. Against an unbeaten side. Can see why he's not getting a run-on game.

Or a Robert Copeland.

I would love another real backline leader like Hodge but they don’t come around very often.

 

[NotQuiteJezza]

Some will, but I think you're overestimating how much influence the footy media actually has over the average Qld AFL supporter. We're more likely to see a drop back because of results on the field (not finishing top 4, possibly losing in the first week of finals) than because of Zorko's stupidity and the club's response.

I guess you’re right.

It certainly won’t help Zorko’s media aspirations.