Review Round 23, 2024 - Collingwood vs. Brisbane Lions

[dlanod]

Anyone having a slapfest with other posters have a high chance to have a day's break to cool down.

 

[Tom14]

I think dismissing King entirely is as wrong as hanging on his every word. Same with any of the talking heads.

There is a reason we lose games the way we do and have done for years. Those guys calling it out is what they do.

Rightly or wrongly there are lots of moments in footy that change outcomes... To me there is little doubt that under pressure nearly all the team need to think through them and perhaps do things differently.

Like every pundit, Kingy is good when he agrees with me (slandering weitering for following his opponent around and not intercepting) and bad when he disagrees (usually his shit about who is going to stand up and say "hey boys, come with me").

The worst part is that he's one of like 3 people that gets the interesting data drops from champion data, but he often doesn't understand how to present the information interestingly. Would love to be able to tune him out more and just ignore him, but AFL data (and behind the goals vision) is locked up and you can't even pay to get access to it.

 

[Tom14]

Robbo saying "how even's the season when you say it like that?" absolutely kills me every time I hear it.

 

[Dalions]

I actually think close wins are preferable heading into finals. How many times did the Pies bury their opponents leading up to last years finals?

They actually lost 3 of their last 5 games.
So all is not lost.

 

[Lion_LegacyXL]

We're so sick of losing at this ground, especially in that fashion. 4 out of our last 7 MCG games we've lost by a goal or less.

 

[pappaazz]

We're so sick of losing at this ground, especially in that fashion. 4 out of our last 7 MCG games we've lost by a goal or less.

I will have permanent scars from being in attendance vs Tigers in 22, Dees in 23, and Pies this year. I was hesitant to go but I went anyway, and it wrecked me. Why must they put us through it haha
It's the same manner every time!

 

[dlanod]

I will have permanent scars from being in attendance vs Tigers in 22, Dees in 23, and Pies this year. I was hesitant to go but I went anyway, and it wrecked me. Why must they put us through it haha
It's the same manner every time!

Surely you're going to get the hint eventually! Stop going!!!

 

[braddsey]

Whatever result we get from finals this year is irrelevant.

Next preseason needs to be almost entirely set shots practice. Honestly f*ck everything else, unlike some others here I don’t really have much of a problem with most of how we’re playing otherwise. Yes there’s issues, but a LOT of issues can get papered over with good goal kicking. I mean take last week, we effectively played one good quarter out of four and still should’ve smoked the giants - but the accuracy was the difference. Our current gameplan and style will generate more than enough opportunities for shots to win; we just need to take advantage of that.

I seem to remember a story from Lynchy about how he got more comfortable kicking set shots in his transition forward; where he just spent an entire off season doing nothing but kicking at goals.

I just watched the footage of the 4 missed goals in the 3rd quarter. You could almost make an excuse for Bailey, Ashcroft & Lohmann (if you really really wanted to...), but Cam Rayner's miss! Dead in front, 20 meters out.

Get through the Essendon game, then head to the bye and regroup. It worked last time, and then we only need a streak of 4 wins after the bye. If we can get Hippy to fire one week, Joe another, perhaps Rayner, and then time for Charlie to shine for the first time all season?

 

[McIvor]

Not sure why Fox don't publish these things wider than they do, but I though the footage of Dunkley mic'd up against Collingwood was exceptional. Unlike most players they mic even Zorko, there isn't a lot of insight, but Dunks was fanatastic and his encouragment, on-field coaching and even his interaction on the bench with a line coach up in the box about manning Daicos was brilliant.

It really made it apparent to me why he was elevated to the leadership group as quick as he was.

 

[McIvor]

 

[Thomasno]

Opening round collapse v the Blues was worse and in the long run had just as much impact on our season.

After the 1st quarter that night I was eyeing off an undefeated season, that quarter of footy was breathtaking from us.

Agreed, I still maintain that first half (mostly the first quarter, but we still held them well in the 2nd after they started playing) was the best footy any team has played all year.

Genuinely I think our whole game plan coming into the season hinged on Kiddy, and losing him just took the wind out of the sails and it’s not been the same since.

 

[Sherrinator]

Now that I’ve had 5 days to calm down I am still fuming that we never shepherd. Take any chance we can to have a breather.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Bailey has the nerve to have a good laugh with McSpray after the game.

I went through security at the same time as the Lions players on Sunday morning at Melbourne airport. They were in the other queue (not the priority queue, general queue like everyone else, just I was on the left side and they were on the right).

Then shortly after Kai and Zac strolling through the food area seemingly on pretty good terms with themselves, for some reason. Didn't see anyone else after that... They might have vanished into the virgin lounge or wherever.

Their mood was in stark contrast to Zorko's interview on SENQ on Monday morning. Poor bugger sounded absolutely heartbroken. 10 minute chat, you couldn't possibly fake that.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Goal kicking has to be our NUMBER 1 PRIORITY at training...HAS TO BE!

.... been a problem for far too long. Fix that and our boys are unstoppable and can run rings around other teams..

Missing goals gets inside their heads which leads to other stuff ups etc.

It's not rocket science is it, really.

The meeja types love to tell you about how the most important kick in footy is the kick inside 50. Where it goes, who it goes to, how it gets there, blah blah blah.

It's absolute bunkum.

The most important kick in footy has always been, still is, and probably always will be, the kick AT GOAL.

It seems like we (and other clubs I guess, given kicking for goal has never really improved in my entire time watching footy, more than 30 years) spend so much time working on various drills to help us move to the ball and defend ball movement and all that exotic stuff, that we run out of time to practice kicking for goal to the necessary extent to actually improve.

And if we do practice kicking at goal enough, I'm convinced it is not done at the necessary standard and intensity to match that of an actual match. Do we have someone standing the mark every time anyone takes a set shot at training? I doubt this very much.

What about heart rates? Are we practicing kicking for goal having led multiple times before taking the mark? Are we practicing being involved in a wrestle with a defender before taking a contested mark? I'm a great believer that you should train as you play, and I'm not convinced we do that.

Do we treat a shot from 20 metres out directly in front that just sneaks inside the goal post as a success? That's the same as a batsman who picks up a streaky boundary thanks to an inside edge down to fine leg looking down at his bat and thinking to himself "oh I timed that perfectly, I'm in such brilliant form!"

Do we even practice kicking for goal from 20 metres out directly in front? Or do we think that is too easy and spend all our time kicking the tough shots from 40m out on the boundary? I mean, sure, if you're nailing shots from 40m out on the boundary, of course we should be nailing them from 20m out directly in front. But the mind doesn't work like that. If you haven't practiced it to the extent that you could basically do it in your sleep, you haven't practiced it enough.

Imagine a tennis player deciding to only practice their overhead smash and never their back court forehand. A soccer player who only wants to practice doing the rainbow instead of dribbling and passing. A bowler who spends all their time practicing his slower ball but can't put the ball on a hanky 5 times out of 6. These guys are gonna find themselves out of action pretty quickly.

And that's not even it. Have you ever noticed during the warm up at the Gabba, the defenders ALWAYS warm up in the left pocket (for those of us sitting at the western end), while the forwards ALWAYS warm up in the right pocket? WHY? Why aren't we alternating? We often take shots in a game from the other side of the field... Why aren't we practicing that right before a game?

Similarly, it's not like our opponent is going to go inside 50 to the same pocket all the time. Change it up for our defenders' benefit too. Maybe that means our talls need to fly with their opposite fist. Maybe it means the smalls at the drop of the ball need to be able to step off their opposite foot to guard the necessary space in the corridor. Little things like this.

We've lost two games by a point this year that have basically derailed our quest for a premiership, when so much of what we do is in great order. Details matter.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Ashcroft 1
Zorko 1
Ahchee 0
Bailey 0
Cameron 0
Rayner 1

That's the tackle count. Blame shit kicking all you like... And you can... But we have too many 1 way players. Over and over we guard space and wave our arms around.

Zorko was wholey unaccountable all night and others not much better.

We are soft when the pressure is on and it needs sorting. We will continue to lose the way we always have unless something changes

We see tackle numbers but never the % of missed tackles. I think we'd find this very illuminating as well.

Another fundamental to go with goal kicking I believe we neglect.

 

[Grasshopper17]

I have never been more angirer than I am/was walking out of the ground. That was insipid.

I didn't even get angry. I'm numb to it now.

I was at Richmond 2022.
I was at Melbourne 2023.
I was at Carlton in opening round.
I was at the Giants game last week.
And I was there on Saturday.

Heck I was even there in Sydney when Melbourne steamrolled us in the middle of 2021!

 

[Lions Flag 2020]

The skill level of AFL players is deplorable compared to other professional sports. It’s just not the Brisbane Lions missing shots in front, it’s the whole league. How players consistently handball to other players feet from 5 metres and how can so many players be drafted and not be able to kick off their non-preferred! I recon EPL players and professional golfers must watch AFL and laugh.

If AFL clubs told professional golfers how much time the players spent goal kicking practice in a week the golfers would reply - don’t you mean a day not a week?

It’s still a great game due to all its other attributes. Skill level just isn’t one of them.

 

[Nathan Barley]

The skill level of AFL players is deplorable compared to other professional sports. It’s just not the Brisbane Lions missing shots in front, it’s the whole league. How players consistently handball to other players feet from 5 metres and how can so many players be drafted and not be able to kick off their non-preferred! I recon EPL players and professional golfers must watch AFL and laugh.

If AFL clubs told professional golfers how much time the players spent goal kicking practice in a week the golfers would reply - don’t you mean a day not a week?

It’s still a great game due to all its other attributes. Skill level just isn’t one of them.

That's what makes it great

 

[M Malice]

The skill level of AFL players is deplorable compared to other professional sports. It’s just not the Brisbane Lions missing shots in front, it’s the whole league. How players consistently handball to other players feet from 5 metres and how can so many players be drafted and not be able to kick off their non-preferred! I recon EPL players and professional golfers must watch AFL and laugh.

If AFL clubs told professional golfers how much time the players spent goal kicking practice in a week the golfers would reply - don’t you mean a day not a week?

It’s still a great game due to all its other attributes. Skill level just isn’t one of them.

Plenty of professional golfers completely miss the fairway, the green or a putt from a couple of meters.

Also plenty of professional football players miss penalty kicks or fluff absolute sitter goals or make howler mistakes in defence.

AFL is a very physical game with 360 degree pressure which requires elite endurance as well, any sport which requires physicality as well as elite fitness is going to require you to perform skills under extreme fatigue, very difficult task.

IMO we underrate how good an athlete most AFL players are.

I have never played Aussie Rules but I have been to a park and ran at near top pace and tried to bounce the ball and kick it on the run, that alone is a very difficult skill.

I did play soccer and Futsal for a combined 30 years though and I was not a very skilful player but I got by OK... albeit nowhere near an elite level of competition.

 

[McIvor]

I'm a great believer that you should train as you play, and I'm not convinced we do that.

We've lost two games by a point this year that have basically derailed our quest for a premiership, when so much of what we do is in great order. Details matter.

I've said this for many years, but I've never understand why training, particularly during the season, isn't conducted during the time of upcoming matches. I mean they're almost always training mid morning and rarely doing so between 2-5pm, 4:30-7:30pm or 7.10-10:30pm? Why not?

I'm not saying we aren't alone, but I suspect its a convenience thing for everyone associated with the club so they have typical business hours as partners and the like and perhaps knowing the AFLPA they have dictated players can't train after certain times. But how does that then prepare players for match day conditions or in the very least acclimatize the body to playing sport at a particular time when you never train for it? All week you're training in the mornings and then come weekend, you're still playing games well after 10pm!

It still feels like AFL clubs have a bloody long way to being fully professional becuase the other point you touched on, some of our goalkicking is so diabolical its not funny. I mean park footy players are just as stuffed when they line up for goals and aren't missing the sodas our guys and don't tell me its pressure when they also have a few thousand watching them and the stakes are also high for their teams and position within the league.

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

We see tackle numbers but never the % of missed tackles. I think we'd find this very illuminating as well.

Another fundamental to go with goal kicking I believe we neglect.

100% on that.
There is so much technique they could work on and should.
Front on tackling , behind from an angle run down tackle.
Some of it all intertwines : timing , alertness , proactiveness, covering angles.to name a few.

 

[Grasshopper17]

I've said this for many years, but I've never understand why training, particularly during the season, isn't conducted during the time of upcoming matches. I mean they're almost always training mid morning and rarely doing so between 2-5pm, 4:30-7:30pm or 7.10-10:30pm? Why not?

I'm not saying we aren't alone, but I suspect its a convenience thing for everyone associated with the club so they have typical business hours as partners and the like and perhaps knowing the AFLPA they have dictated players can't train after certain times. But how does that then prepare players for match day conditions or in the very least acclimatize the body to playing sport at a particular time when you never train for it? All week you're training in the mornings and then come weekend, you're still playing games well after 10pm!

It still feels like AFL clubs have a bloody long way to being fully professional becuase the other point you touched on, some of our goalkicking is so diabolical its not funny. I mean park footy players are just as stuffed when they line up for goals and aren't missing the sodas our guys and don't tell me its pressure when they also have a few thousand watching them and the stakes are also high for their teams and position within the league.

Yep, think it's very strange we don't train at similar times to when we play. Certainly from February onwards. Up to that point I'd prefer to see us train in the middle of the day and actually get some leverage out of our preseason conditions.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I thought they usually alternate. The captains run at least is in the afternoons

 

[braddsey]

The skill level of AFL players is deplorable compared to other professional sports. It’s just not the Brisbane Lions missing shots in front, it’s the whole league. How players consistently handball to other players feet from 5 metres and how can so many players be drafted and not be able to kick off their non-preferred! I recon EPL players and professional golfers must watch AFL and laugh.

If AFL clubs told professional golfers how much time the players spent goal kicking practice in a week the golfers would reply - don’t you mean a day not a week?

It’s still a great game due to all its other attributes. Skill level just isn’t one of them.

To add to what M Malice said, the athlete pool for AFL players is incredibly limited. 528,000 people participated in AFL in 2024, which includes kids, women, seniors (superleague). In contrast, soccer is estimated to have over 250million players worldwide (also including kids, women, seniors), from which a well-resourced EPL club can pick the absolute elite to stack their squads. There are more professional football clubs in Europe, than we have professional AFL footballers.

Not exactly comparing apples and apples...

 

[Nathan Barley]

I wonder if there's physical limitations to being more skilled. Footballers have be able to run 15 plus kms, tackle 100kg athletes and be able to kick, handball and catch consistently.

Are there any other sports where you have to do all 3?

 

[Grasshopper17]

I thought they usually alternate. The captains run at least is in the afternoons

Pretty sure it's usually 9 or 10am. I think when we travel and have it on opposition turf it may be in the arvo purely for logistical reasons.