Autopsy Round 24, 2023: Brisbane v St.Kilda

[beside the seaside]

4 clearances from Phillipou is a good effort, just needs to start finding more footy around the ground.

He's having impact with most of his touches which is a great signs. 5 score involvements, 2 goal assists, 6 inside 50's

Exciting to see what he can become in a year or two. At pick 10 he is looking like the bargain we all thought he could be.

 

[Saintbloke]

It's great that we're playing finals, but in reality, probably the weakest midfield in the top eight. Not sure if it can be fixed for the finals, but I reckon the focus in our football dept is recruiting midfield quality.

 

[bird_man]

Exciting to see what he can become in a year or two. At pick 10 he is looking like the bargain we all thought he could be.

Could be Bont by year 3, which is why it's important that we are throwing him in the middle now.

 

[moirae42]

Ultimately undone in the midfield.

Brisbane had more than enough opportunity to have the game done at half time. But that's football. They let us off badly and we were good enough to stay in touch.

Clark did cop a big cork in the first qtr. It looked pretty heavy at the time. He gets an out.

Losing Battle at the half put massive pressure on the back half and they did ok. But Battle is critical to the back six and how they handle the key forwards.

Our midfield is just seriously lacking. When one of them is down, we seem to be cooked. If they all show up we can compete, but against a stacked midfield we are just not good enough. This is our recruiting strategy over the past six years or so coming back to haunt us.

I think we are good enough to win the first final, but after that, it is touch and go. There is still a lot of that "plucky effort" about us. Our best is pretty good, but we have a heap of flaws. Winning the flag would be some sort of miracle.

I'm glad we chanced our arm though. King may have been that two goal difference. The coaches walk away with some good IP against a top side.

 

[The Cobra]

Not sure why Lyon went defensive- no run and spread early, no quick movement to the outside runners..the opposite style of game to the week before. The midfield and half forwards got beaten as a unit and their defensive game was poor. Butler needs to get a bit more lively again as does Higgins- very disappointed in some of the one-on-one contests where we were beaten a bit too easily. A few horrible turnovers cost us goals again. Anyway we're playing finals, but there's a bit of work to do.

Yes very disappointed with Higgins game last night - looked well off the pace.

Butler didn’t have a great game but at least you know he is trying to put pressure on and often lays that turnover tackle that starts transition/builds pressure.

 

[puntking]

4 clearances from Phillipou is a good effort, just needs to start finding more footy around the ground.

He's having impact with most of his touches which is a great signs. 5 score involvements, 2 goal assists, 6 inside 50's

Yep, double what our captain and Crouch got

 

[Cairnsman]

I don't remember North playing first or 2nd year players for over 100 games between them while they were in that phase?

Lyon seems well aware of his challenges which is why he is pumping games into them and backing kids rather than the same old same old.

I agree it's an interesting space ahead, but we looked to have taken a big step forward this year, although it was questionable at times.

don't think we can claim a big step forward at this stage, need to have that discussion this time next year as we are still a middle of the road list not capable of contending with the top 4

what has been positive has been the positive from our injury crisis to FORCE Lyon to play some players who might of otherwise not a game because as we know Lyon had a reputation for sticking to his favourites. So from that aspect it will be interesting to see if he is still committed to selecting VFL players in 2024

but no question there has been a silver lining to our injury crisis.

And hopefully Lyon can have a better pre season and avoid the injuries

 

[bird_man]

don't think we can claim a big step forward at this stage, need to have that discussion this time next year as we are still a middle of the road list not capable of contending with the top 4

what has been positive has been the positive from our injury crisis to FORCE Lyon to play some players who might of otherwise not a game because as we know Lyon had a reputation for sticking to his favourites. So from that aspect it will be interesting to see if he is still committed to selecting VFL players in 2024

but no question there has been a silver lining to our injury crisis.

And hopefully Lyon can have a better pre season and avoid the injuries

I think getting over 100 games into first and second year players while finishing top 6 is a big step forward.

We have almost a full list to choose from now and we continue to play 4 of the 5 players that have managed the 100 plus games so I think you are over playing how much the injuries played a role in that.

We are also backing them to play important roles, not just sticking them in a pocket or playing them as the sub.

 

[Verdun]

It's great that we're playing finals, but in reality, probably the weakest midfield in the top eight. Not sure if it can be fixed for the finals, but I reckon the focus in our football dept is recruiting midfield quality.

Have been saying this for over 5 years.....have had history of drafting half back flankers thinking they'll become mids. Finally have some class in Owens, Phillapou, Windhager and Wanganeen Mileera - they need help and time.

 

[Joffaboy]

Second worst injury list for the season only behind last placed WCE.
Only team in the league to be in the eight all season except for first placed Collingwood.
And still people say we haven't had a leap forward.
It is a results driven game and if people can't see our improvement with this coach who is using a list not of his making, well I think they are looking for things to be negative about.
We made finals for the first time since Ross (2020 was an anomaly due to covid).
We pumped games into Byrnes, Windy, Pou, Naz, Chito.
We discovered players like Stocker and Hammer. Sharman continues to improve.
We haven't seen Van Es, Hotton, Keeler, Hayes has only just got back and has shown a bit, Coff has yet to come back.

Our backline and forwards are looking good. We need another couple of quality mids and a run with few injuries and then we can really compete.

We have the base, we have the coaches, the facilities, a settled admin.

It really is a sign of hope for the future.

I mentioned in a post our young star Pou will have 50 games up by the time he is 20, all going well.

I am the eternal optimist but feel we have a real foundation this time.

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[Cairnsman]

I think getting over 100 games into first and second year players while finishing top 6 is a big step forward.

We have almost a full list to choose from now and we continue to play 4 of the 5 players that have managed the 100 plus games so I think you are over playing how much the injuries played a role in that.

We are also backing them to play important roles, not just sticking them in a pocket or playing them as the sub.

So you are saying Coff, Members, Jones, DMac, Hayes King would of been left out of the side to play kids?

 

[MordySaint]

Second worst injury list for the season only behind last placed WCE.
Only team in the league to be in the eight all season except for first placed Collingwood.
And still people say we haven't had a leap forward.
It is a results driven game and if people can't see our improvement with this coach who is using a list not of his making, well I think they are looking for things to be negative about.
We made finals for the first time since Ross (2020 was an anomaly due to covid).
We pumped games into Byrnes, Windy, Pou, Naz, Chito.
We discovered players like Stocker and Hammer. Sharman continues to improve.
We haven't seen Van Es, Hotton, Keeler, Hayes has only just got back and has shown a bit, Coff has yet to come back.

Our backline and forwards are looking good. We need another couple of quality mids and a run with few injuries and then we can really compete.

We have the base, we have the coaches, the facilities, a settled admin.

It really is a sign of hope for the future.

I mentioned in a post our young star Pou will have 50 games up by the time he is 20, all going well.

I am the eternal optimist but feel we have a real foundation this time.

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1000%

Agree with it all.

Plus we make the finals on merit, not just stumbled into them in the last game.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

don't think we can claim a big step forward at this stage, need to have that discussion this time next year as we are still a middle of the road list not capable of contending with the top 4

what has been positive has been the positive from our injury crisis to FORCE Lyon to play some players who might of otherwise not a game because as we know Lyon had a reputation for sticking to his favourites. So from that aspect it will be interesting to see if he is still committed to selecting VFL players in 2024

but no question there has been a silver lining to our injury crisis.

And hopefully Lyon can have a better pre season and avoid the injuries

I learned a new word this morning, ultracrepidarian.

How fitting.

 

[jwikked]

don't think we can claim a big step forward at this stage, need to have that discussion this time next year as we are still a middle of the road list not capable of contending with the top 4

We are capable of contending with them.
The top 4:
Collingwood, 6 point loss
Brisbane, 28 point loss, 12 point loss
Port, 7 point loss
Melbourne, 21 point loss

The 28 point loss to Brisbane, we were right in that game till the mid point of the final term where we had 4 behinds kicked instead of goals.
The Melbourne loss we were still in it in the 4th quarter as well.

The other games, we were clearly in it for the whole game. We played poorly against Collingwood, we played poorly against Brisbane last night.

There is no reason why we can't beat some top 4 sides next year, we weren't far off from doing it this year. The only truly bad loss we had was the 52 point loss to Adelaide.

 

[Cairnsman]

I learned a new word this morning, ultracrepidarian.

How fitting.

7 syllables too. At this rate you could go OK in a game of scrabble, it's important you keep practising though

 

[Cairnsman]

We are capable of contending with them.
The top 4:
Collingwood, 6 point loss
Brisbane, 28 point loss, 12 point loss
Port, 7 point loss
Melbourne, 21 point loss

The 28 point loss to Brisbane, we were right in that game till the mid point of the final term where we had 4 behinds kicked instead of goals.
The Melbourne loss we were still in it in the 4th quarter as well.

The other games, we were clearly in it for the whole game. We played poorly against Collingwood, we played poorly against Brisbane last night.

There is no reason why we can't beat some top 4 sides next year, we weren't far off from doing it this year. The only truly bad loss we had was the 52 point loss to Adelaide.

The games bar one you are referencing weren't at the pointy end of the season.

It's important we measure ourselves in finals games. A few players went missing last night when the heat was on and Brisbane were short a couple of important players.

Probably capable of winning one final but still a bit of a gap to the top 4 sides which will only come with some list changes.

But a fair performance last night and some encouraging signs.

 

[SteeleSaints]

Apologies to giving Clark the spray I didnt know he was injured, sorry.

Does anyone know if Jones will be available for our next game?

Our midfield is exceptionally poor and the weakest of any of the top 8 side. Apart from Marshall the entire midfield group looked 3rd rate yesterday. I simply cant understand why the coaches havent had a look at other players in there other than Phillipou and Owens. Surely when you lose Clark and Steele etc are getting smashed you make some changes. Ive been saying it all season for me Stocker is the obvious choice, he is a big bodied bullock with a quick burst he just looks the obvious inside player for me. Even Byrnes when he came on last night was on fire and showed that he is good in close would be worth a run.

This lack of flexibility is a modern day trend with most coaches (excluding McCrae), that is really poor coaching IMO. I guess its something to do with the way line coaches prepare players, but it is so frustrating to watch when it is so blatantly obvious. Our coaches continue identify that clearances at stoppages are our achillies heal - well stop rolling the same out of form players in there and do something about it!

 

[Blended]

It looked like Stocker went to Cameron in the 4th qtr and went well in some one on ones. It think I prefer him as a our small/mid lockdown defender instead of Webster

 

[StFly]

Ultimately undone in the midfield.

Brisbane had more than enough opportunity to have the game done at half time. But that's football. They let us off badly and we were good enough to stay in touch.

Clark did cop a big cork in the first qtr. It looked pretty heavy at the time. He gets an out.

Losing Battle at the half put massive pressure on the back half and they did ok. But Battle is critical to the back six and how they handle the key forwards.

Our midfield is just seriously lacking. When one of them is down, we seem to be cooked. If they all show up we can compete, but against a stacked midfield we are just not good enough. This is our recruiting strategy over the past six years or so coming back to haunt us.

I think we are good enough to win the first final, but after that, it is touch and go. There is still a lot of that "plucky effort" about us. Our best is pretty good, but we have a heap of flaws. Winning the flag would be some sort of miracle.

I'm glad we chanced our arm though. King may have been that two goal difference. The coaches walk away with some good IP against a top side.

It's mid HFF for me.

Mids are all same same speed wise so realistically you can drop Steele to HFF for example and leave Crouch as the in & under run with, Hunter in there is just overkill for "please run away from me", and the HBF is pretty set as Windy, Nas, Sincs coming from HBF is AOK if you then have Stocker to cover it as 2 & 2 raffle for rotation, it's the HFF where that falls massively.

Pou is too new, Butler has no body in a contest, Higgins spends more time prone in a contest, Gresh misskicks about 90% and there's your 4 on that arc. They go into mid and instead of adding to contest, really only Gresh that extricates and Pou that Dunstan drop kicks it (this time with thought behind it!), the rest of them are still in that contest, whereas the HBF types are actually formulating solutions comparatively and changing angles.

This is why I am harsh on Butler, as Higgins is taking shots and a focal point on entry and Butler is there for pressure instances, can't pressure anything if the ball is intercepted and your opponent is 40m up the field absconding.

We're there with one hand on, as we can beat these sort of sides, we can match the form sides, we can excel, but almost week in week out we fail for the same reasons and it comes from the HFF area as CC is a legit raffle, and HBF holds.

You can largely control speed, we lost our way this match.

 

[bird_man]

So you are saying Coff, Members, Jones, DMac, Hayes King would of been left out of the side to play kids?

No idea who would have been left out but I doubt it was ever going to be Nas, Owens and Phillipou. Even Windy was set to play early prior to breaking his wrist.

Lyon said numerous times that it was a year of exploration and now with a fit list we still continue to play kids.

 

[Jade Buddha]

Difficult to make comparisons to top 4 teams atm with the games played by our kids. Most of the top 4 are playing very mature players. We’ve got a mix but we don’t have the balance yet.
Midfield is also very ordinary and that puts pressure on all the lines. As has been said 2 more elite mids needed, development of our youth then we will start looking like top 4.

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

2008 we were way off the pace of the rest of the top 4 and decimated in finals.

Pies finished 2nd last 2 years ago.

Not saying we have the list quality that we had in 2008. But a lot can change in a year or two.

Definitely need to make some big moves this off season but I think we've got the core of a competing side.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Didn’t train like it on Thursday


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, Ross said it

 

[Tommy Wigs]

I think getting over 100 games into first and second year players while finishing top 6 is a big step forward.

We have almost a full list to choose from now and we continue to play 4 of the 5 players that have managed the 100 plus games so I think you are over playing how much the injuries played a role in that.

We are also backing them to play important roles, not just sticking them in a pocket or playing them as the sub.

Yep, they’re definitely not going full 100% at absolutely eking every last ounce out. But building for the future responsibly. But sAinTs TRy rEAL GOod

 

[Joffaboy]

2008 we were way off the pace of the rest of the top 4 and decimated in finals.

Pies finished 2nd last 2 years ago.

Not saying we have the list quality that we had in 2008. But a lot can change in a year or two.

Definitely need to make some big moves this off season but I think we've got the core of a competing side.

Maybe not 2008, but this year has a 2003 feel about it.

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