Autopsy Round 3, 2019: Fremantle v St.Kilda

[pebblesofsand]

Who clearly would have played many more games as a pure ruckman than Marshall. And I actually thought Marshall beat him pretty clearly anyway

If you say so

Lobb 17 possessions, 4 marks and a goal V Marshall 16 possessions, 5 marks and no goals

Suggests barely breaking even to me.

 

[Mikka84]

If you say so

Lobb 17 possessions, 4 marks and a goal V Marshall 16 possessions, 5 marks and no goals

Suggests barely breaking even to me.

Marshall - 6 tackles, 40 hit outs, 15 pressure acts.
Lobb - 1 tackle, 28 hit outs, 8 pressure acts.

If we’re going just on ruck, as suggested, Marshall was clearly better.

Lobb has played 75 games and Marshall 13 for prospective.

 

[gringo2011]

The Billings free kick shouldn’t have been paid according to the umpires.

No s**t, they must have reviewed the footage for hours to realise that. Because Gary Rowan broke his leg we made a rule that has been called wrong more than right and has cost games. Probably the dumbest rule in footy.

 

[gringo2011]

I really like Taranto , currently in his 3rd year and would be our best mid if we had him , feel he has more class than Shiel that went to Essendon.
Hopper is out of contract this year , Taranto the year after but today a contract is not worth the money it is written on.
We could also look at Jack Martin is off contract this year as well.

Hoppers stats are nearly identical and as you said out of contract, would cost less.

 

[BrutThough]

Marshall - 6 tackles, 40 hit outs, 15 pressure acts.
Lobb - 1 tackle, 28 hit outs, 8 pressure acts.

If we’re going just on ruck, as suggested, Marshall was clearly better.

Lobb has played 75 games and Marshall 13 for prospective.

How many of Marshall's taps went to one of our players?

 

[plugger66]

If you say so

Lobb 17 possessions, 4 marks and a goal V Marshall 16 possessions, 5 marks and no goals

Suggests barely breaking even to me.

I just watched the game. Anyway the point you didn’t address stands. 2 full games for Marshall. Many for lobby in the ruck. Just out of interest why no mention of tackles or hit outs to advantage

 

[pebblesofsand]

Marshall - 6 tackles, 40 hit outs, 15 pressure acts.
Lobb - 1 tackle, 28 hit outs, 8 pressure acts.

If we’re going just on ruck, as suggested, Marshall was clearly better.

Lobb has played 75 games and Marshall 13 for prospective.

Yep we can cherry pick stats as much as we like to support our own views. Can I say Lobb was much better because he got forward and kicked the goal that was the difference in the result?

Marshall may have had more hitouts but since we lost the centre clearances 17 to 5 so I can't see how anybody can claim it as big positive. (Some posters even claim they are irrelevant!!)

Back to the original comments - broke even - not clearly better.

 

[Joffaboy]

Frankly if a player loses confidence from being dropped, he has no place in elite sport.

Billings got dropped, went back to Sandy and got 55 possessions.

Reaping the benefits now maybe?

Reckon both Clark and Coffield will be long time players for us.

 

[pebblesofsand]

I just watched the game. Anyway the point you didn’t address stands. 2 full games for Marshall. Many for lobby in the ruck. Just out of interest why no mention of tackles or hit outs to advantage

"2 full games for Marshall. Many for lobby in the ruck." ???????????????

Didn't address it because it was completely irrelevant to a discussion about who played better on Sunday. Unless of course you reckon we live in some sort of multiverse where we can go back and replay this game in a few years time when Marshall has played the same amount of games as Lobb.

But then wouldn't that rely on Lobb also not having played anymore games in the intervening period??? Ohh my head hurts!!!!!!

 

[plugger66]

How many of Marshall's taps went to one of our players?

10 compared to 7

 

[busso_mick]

Billings got dropped, went back to Sandy and got 55 possessions.

Reaping the benefits now maybe?

Reckon both Clark and Coffield will be long time players for us.

Coffield was the captain of Northern Knights and Under 18 All Australian so maybe now his current form is the first blip in his career and he is adjusting to the aberration. A lot of young guys have form concerns in their second year, I think when he does break back in he will be a better player than last year.

 

[plugger66]

"2 full games for Marshall. Many for lobby in the ruck." ???????????????

Didn't address it because it was completely irrelevant unless you reckon we live in some sort of multiverse where we can go back and replay this game in a few years time when Marshall has played the same amount of games as Lobb.

But then wouldn't that rely on Lobb also not having played anymore games in the intervening period??? Ohh my head hurts!!!!!!

Sorry but how is my comment irrelevant but your isn’t. Why does it matter why lobby came to the club. Fact was he was picked as the first ruck so it’s completely irrelevant why he came to the club. Didn’t they drop their other ruckman because they obviously thought lobb would do a better job. The answer is yes. Anyway thanks for trying to put a downer on Marshall’s game. Strange that you won’t let more out a downer on your comment which actually supports our player. And apparently you can use stats anyway you want. You do realise you brought in the stats in the first place

 

[MightySaint]

Marshall is an absolute no brainer. Pierce and Longer should not get into the 22 again unless he is injured pr horrendously out of form. Absolute natural footballer, great around the ground, I feel calm when he has the ball and he can actually hold a mark.
Absolutely nailed that rookie draft selection.

Re: hitouts, agree he is average. I would like to have seen what the clearances would look like had he been rucking for Freo

 

[nitewalker13]

Marshall is an absolute no brainer. Pierce and Longer should not get into the 22 again unless he is injured pr horrendously out of form. Absolute natural footballer, great around the ground, I feel calm when he has the ball and he can actually hold a mark.
Absolutely nailed that rookie draft selection.

Re: hitouts, agree he is average. I would like to have seen what the clearances would look like had he been rucking for Freo

He has played veey few games and we can already see how good he is with marking, tackles and ground work.

Give him couple of seasons and he will become pro with hitouts and tap work.

 

[MightySaint]

He has played veey few games and we can already see how good he is with marking, tackles and ground work.

Give him couple of seasons and he will become pro with hitouts and tap work.

He doesn't even need to get better rucking. Continued improvement in general and he'll be an absolute nightmare for opposition teams.
I'd also say an elite mid or two would magically make him a better tap ruckman

 

[BrutThough]

10 compared to 7

So both of them went at 25% with hitouts to their own teammates?
Sounds like they broke even in the game, which is what the original comment said.

 

[Mikka84]

Yep we can cherry pick stats as much as we like to support our own views. Can I say Lobb was much better because he got forward and kicked the goal that was the difference in the result?

Marshall may have had more hitouts but since we lost the centre clearances 17 to 5 so I can't see how anybody can claim it as big positive. (Some posters even claim they are irrelevant!!)

Back to the original comments - broke even - not clearly better.

But that’s exactly what you did.. cherry picked stats. I was giving the stats that you conveniently left out to strengthen your argument. If you think Longer is better, that’s ok. If you think Lobb was better for the entire game than Marshall because he kicked a goal, I find that strange.

Even champion data had him ranked the best Saint and the 3rd best player in the ground..

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

Yep we can cherry pick stats as much as we like to support our own views.

Marshall may have had more hitouts but since we lost the centre clearances 17 to 5 so I can't see how anybody can claim it as big positive. (Some posters even claim they are irrelevant!!)
.

You deliberately left out the hit out stats. Which he won comfortably.
Freos mids were far superior and better at sharking the taps and winning the ball.

 

[Mikka84]

So both of them went at 25% with hitouts to their own teammates?
Sounds like they broke even in the game, which is what the original comment said.

Not really.. if a ruckman has 1000 hit outs and 250 to advantage, he would beat the opposing ruckman with 500 hit outs and 125 to advantage. That’s like saying someone who kicks 10.4 is the same as someone kicking 5.2 because they go at the same % strike rate..

 

[pebblesofsand]

Sorry but how is my comment irrelevant but your isn’t. Why does it matter why lobby came to the club. Fact was he was picked as the first ruck so it’s completely irrelevant why he came to the club. Didn’t they drop their other ruckman because they obviously thought lobb would do a better job. The answer is yes. Anyway thanks for trying to put a downer on Marshall’s game. Strange that you won’t let more out a downer on your comment which actually supports our player. And apparently you can use stats anyway you want. You do realise you brought in the stats in the first place

Your comment is irrelevant because its completely irrelevant how many games player A has played in relation to Player B in the context of whether or not Player A was clearly better or worse than Player B in a game three days ago.

As for for trying to put a downer on Marshalls game - are you serious? My original comment was prefaced with "Now don't get me wrong - Marshall's trajectory is tracking nicely"

Looks like my sin is carrying out a realistic assessment of a players performance and impact against his direct opponent - my apologies for not gilding the lily.

I'm onboard - Marshall is the new GOAT!!! (Just like the original GOAT was and Parker is fast becoming!!!)

Speaking of realistic assessment of the game - can you explain how a 186 cm defender can take 13 marks when we're playing a forward line heavy in small "pressure" forwards?

 

[plugger66]

So both of them went at 25% with hitouts to their own teammates?
Sounds like they broke even in the game, which is what the original comment said.

That’s interesting. So if one guy had 4 hit outs and the other had 40 and they both went at 25% they would be level. That is a weird way of looking at it. Strange that last year when you backed longer it was all about hit outs. Now justifying some silly thing it’s about percentage of hit outs to advantage. Just weird

 

[plugger66]

Your comment is irrelevant because its completely irrelevant how many games player A has played in relation to Player B in the context of whether or not Player A was clearly better or worse than Player B in a game three days ago.

As for for trying to put a downer on Marshalls game - are you serious? My original comment was prefaced with "Now don't get me wrong - Marshall's trajectory is tracking nicely"

Looks like my sin is carrying out a realistic assessment of a players performance and impact against his direct opponent - my apologies for not gilding the lily.

I'm onboard - Marshall is the new GOAT!!! (Just like the original GOAT was and Parker is fast becoming!!!)

Speaking of realistic assessment of the game - can you explain how a 186 cm defender can take 13 marks when we're playing a forward line heavy in small "pressure" forwards?

It’s notrealistic because you used a reason why he came to the club as a reason his performance wasn’t as good as it looked. The fact is they dropped a ruckman because they thought the other one would do a better job.

As for your last comment well that’s simple. Poor kicking into the forward line. How does another tall stop uncontested marks. He doesn’t. If a small can’t get back to contest a tall certainly can’t. And if you think a tall will hang back and not follow an opponent then you aren’t watching today’s footy. Every side pushes up not just us. We need smarter entries. See it’s a simple game.

 

[Premium]

How many of Marshall's taps went to one of our players?

By the way our mid field played none

 

[George]

That’s interesting. So if one guy had 4 hit outs and the other had 40 and they both went at 25% they would be level. That is a weird way of looking at it. Strange that last year when you backed longer it was all about hit outs. Now justifying some silly thing it’s about percentage of hit outs to advantage. Just weird

1 quality tap is better than 10.

 

[plugger66]

1 quality tap is better than 10.

In what universe