Autopsy Round 3, 2019: Fremantle v St.Kilda

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BrutThough

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That’s interesting. So if one guy had 4 hit outs and the other had 40 and they both went at 25% they would be level. That is a weird way of looking at it. Strange that last year when you backed longer it was all about hit outs. Now justifying some silly thing it’s about percentage of hit outs to advantage. Just weird
Marshall was really good around the ground but he didn't have a dominant ruck performance like many are suggesting. Many of his hit outs went directly to the Fremantle mids. If you look at it, he hit 10 to our players which means 30 of his hitouts went to either Freo players or to no one. Thats a lot of hitouts going no where and as a weak clearance team, we cant afford to be directly giving our opposition first chance so often especially since the numbers have shown a large increase in scoring from centre bounces. It's something he really needs to work on heading forward if he is going to stay as our number 1 ruckman.

I believed Longer was a better option than Hickey because of how our midfield always seemed to perform better when he was a starting ruckman. In 2017, we went from last in clearances with Hickey starting the season to 3rd once Longer came in. That's why I favoured Longer in front of Hickey, because of how our midfield improved with Longer starting.
 

plugger66

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Marshall was really good around the ground but he didn't have a dominant ruck performance like many are suggesting. Many of his hit outs went directly to the Fremantle mids. If you look at it, he hit 10 to our players which means 30 of his hitouts went to either Freo players or to no one. Thats a lot of hitouts going no where and as a weak clearance team, we cant afford to be directly giving our opposition first chance so often especially since the numbers have shown a large increase in scoring from centre bounces. It's something he really needs to work on heading forward if he is going to stay as our number 1 ruckman.

I believed Longer was a better option than Hickey because of how our midfield always seemed to perform better when he was a starting ruckman. In 2017, we went from last in clearances with Hickey starting the season to 3rd once Longer came in. That's why I favoured Longer in front of Hickey, because of how our midfield improved with Longer starting.
Your first point is why hit outs as a total are a waste of time but I can assure you most hit outs from most players are neutral or to the opposition. Have a look at the hits in the Gold Coast and Collingwood game. And I’m pretty sure you used hot out numbers to support longer not just clearances. The other point is you can’t use averages to suggest they were even.
 

Joffaboy

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Coffield was the captain of Northern Knights and Under 18 All Australian so maybe now his current form is the first blip in his career and he is adjusting to the aberration. A lot of young guys have form concerns in their second year, I think when he does break back in he will be a better player than last year.
I agree. Form is temporary, class is permanent.

I think some of this stuff about players being pissed off at the club and losing confidence by being dropped to the reserves is projection by the poster and shows their lack of character and is a logical fallacy.

Coffield was identified as a leader early, hence why he was captain of his TAC team.
His skill and prowess was identified by being selected AA.
His value and high potential was identified by being a top 10 dp in the AFL.

All that taken into consideration, I would find it highly unlikely he is sulking. He may be concerned, may even be pissed off that he isn't playing seniors, but I reckon with his character traits, he would be extra determined to rectify his issues and be a long term valuable member of the team.
 
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The whole ruckman discussion would be irrelevant if we played a midfield that could read the ball off the ruckmans hands and react quickly. Steel was played as a tagger to stop Fyfe so he is concentrating on his opponent, Ross was tagged and was the invisible man (really poor) & Dunstan plays like he is wearing cement boots. Both Mundy & Fyfe are 193cms tall and read the ball really well and Walters lighting quick and a smart player. Steel did a good job on Fyfe, but how did our other midfield match ups go? Why werent other mids rotated through the centre more?

Marshall by comparison did ok for where he is at as a ruckman. The huge upside with Marshall is he is a footballer not just a tap ruck, he can run, kick, mark and tackle and as a result is light years ahead of Longer etc. If anything against Fremantles tall defence we could of afforded to play two ruckman and have Marshall forward/rucking.
 

plugger66

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Ok so it’s 2 days after the event that we lost by less than a goal. What I’ve learnt from some on here is we have the worst coach in the afl who was smashed by Lyon. Our ruckman won hit outs but didn’t get enough to advantage. Our forwards couldn’t defend Our mids were smashed etc etc. yet we lost by less than a kick and fact is we had more scoring shots. That may or may not have lead to a win if we kicked straight but I doubt it helps. Also freo have played one home game for a 80 point win.

I want to win as much as anyone but the result wasn’t as bad as many are stating. A bit of positivity about the game would be nice.
 

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MOLTEN GANGLANDS

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Ok so it’s 2 days after the event that we lost by less than a goal. What I’ve learnt from some on here is we have the worst coach in the afl who was smashed by Lyon. Our ruckman won hit outs but didn’t get enough to advantage. Our forwards couldn’t defend Our mids were smashed etc etc. yet we lost by less than a kick and fact is we had more scoring shots. That may or may not have lead to a win if we kicked straight but I doubt it helps. Also freo have played one home game for a 80 point win.

I want to win as much as anyone but the result wasn’t as bad as many are stating. A bit of positivity about the game would be nice.
you make me sick plugger, when we're up and about you're a pessimistic realist, when we're hot off a loss you're an optimistic realist. Your consistency is contrarian
 

pebblesofsand

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It’s notrealistic because you used a reason why he came to the club as a reason his performance wasn’t as good as it looked. The fact is they dropped a ruckman because they thought the other one would do a better job.

As for your last comment well that’s simple. Poor kicking into the forward line. How does another tall stop uncontested marks. He doesn’t. If a small can’t get back to contest a tall certainly can’t. And if you think a tall will hang back and not follow an opponent then you aren’t watching today’s footy. Every side pushes up not just us. We need smarter entries. See it’s a simple game.
Yes that's perfectly correct - I used the fact that Lobb came to Freo to play as forward to help me judge his ability as a ruckman in order to enable me effectively quantify the actual quality of Marshall's game. I find that critical assessment helps me avoid drinking the bathwater.

Ummm - I didn't mention tall players but inadvertently I think you've at least partially answered the question - "If a small can’t get back to contest a tall certainly can’t.

There lies the problem - our forwards sag towards the existing contest not plan for the next - not sure why they do but they do.

I don't go to practice so I have no idea whether its part of the the "game plan" or its just lazy players who get caught up ball watching - entries into the forward line are never all perfect lace passes because of the pressure on midfield players when they are disposing of the ball.

The default i50 entry of EVERY club when under pressure is a kick to a contest near the boundary line - and far to often our players get too far out of position to affect that contest and then a 186 cm defender takes mark after mark.
 

Saintbloke

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Ok so it’s 2 days after the event that we lost by less than a goal. What I’ve learnt from some on here is we have the worst coach in the afl who was smashed by Lyon. Our ruckman won hit outs but didn’t get enough to advantage. Our forwards couldn’t defend Our mids were smashed etc etc. yet we lost by less than a kick and fact is we had more scoring shots. That may or may not have lead to a win if we kicked straight but I doubt it helps. Also freo have played one home game for a 80 point win.

I want to win as much as anyone but the result wasn’t as bad as many are stating. A bit of positivity about the game would be nice.
What I saw was two ordinary teams, and one just got past the other due to the influence of Fyfe early in the game.
 

kosifantutti

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I was disappointed with some of Roma’s marking efforts on Sunday. He seemed to get in reasonable position but his hands were all over the place.

Overall, I was happy with his game and his progress but this aspect just seemed a little off on Sunday.
 

VDS66

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Ok so it’s 2 days after the event that we lost by less than a goal. What I’ve learnt from some on here is we have the worst coach in the afl who was smashed by Lyon. Our ruckman won hit outs but didn’t get enough to advantage. Our forwards couldn’t defend Our mids were smashed etc etc. yet we lost by less than a kick and fact is we had more scoring shots. That may or may not have lead to a win if we kicked straight but I doubt it helps. Also freo have played one home game for a 80 point win.

I want to win as much as anyone but the result wasn’t as bad as many are stating. A bit of positivity about the game would be nice.
I agree. Yes we lost. But even according to JB they stuck to their guns and plan, and nearly pulled it off.

But apparently we are mediocrity embracing minions.

The group has obviously devised a strategy and game plan over summer and are now playing accordingly.

It will take time and continuity.

4 weeks ago, posters were saying our season is over due to loss of key players or that we will still end up bottom 4 etc.

So we nearly pull off a win after being jumped, in Perth with a depleted list and it's the end of the world for some.

Funny and sad at the same time.
 

AirWinmar

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I agree. Form is temporary, class is permanent.

I think some of this stuff about players being pissed off at the club and losing confidence by being dropped to the reserves is projection by the poster and shows their lack of character and is a logical fallacy.

Coffield was identified as a leader early, hence why he was captain of his TAC team.
His skill and prowess was identified by being selected AA.
His value and high potential was identified by being a top 10 dp in the AFL.

All that taken into consideration, I would find it highly unlikely he is sulking. He may be concerned, may even be pissed off that he isn't playing seniors, but I reckon with his character traits, he would be extra determined to rectify his issues and be a long term valuable member of the team.
Good post, you'd hope he is a bit pissed to be playing in the 2s. Get angry, train hard, dominate in the vfl and come into the 1sts and show them what your made off
 

plugger66

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Yes that's perfectly correct - I used the fact that Lobb came to Freo to play as forward to help me judge his ability as a ruckman in order to enable me effectively quantify the actual quality of Marshall's game. I find that critical assessment helps me avoid drinking the bathwater.

Ummm - I didn't mention tall players but inadvertently I think you've at least partially answered the question - "If a small can’t get back to contest a tall certainly can’t.

There lies the problem - our forwards sag towards the existing contest not plan for the next - not sure why they do but they do.

I don't go to practice so I have no idea whether its part of the the "game plan" or its just lazy players who get caught up ball watching - entries into the forward line are never all perfect lace passes because of the pressure on midfield players when they are disposing of the ball.

The default i50 entry of EVERY club when under pressure is a kick to a contest near the boundary line - and far to often our players get too far out of position to affect that contest and then a 186 cm defender takes mark after mark.
You aren’t taking into account that their coach thought he was better than their other ruckman though. Rest of the post I pretty much agree with. I think if we had Carlisle though he would also read the opposition forward entries better. Unfortunately brown isn’t that type
 

Mikka84

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Ok so it’s 2 days after the event that we lost by less than a goal. What I’ve learnt from some on here is we have the worst coach in the afl who was smashed by Lyon. Our ruckman won hit outs but didn’t get enough to advantage. Our forwards couldn’t defend Our mids were smashed etc etc. yet we lost by less than a kick and fact is we had more scoring shots. That may or may not have lead to a win if we kicked straight but I doubt it helps. Also freo have played one home game for a 80 point win.

I want to win as much as anyone but the result wasn’t as bad as many are stating. A bit of positivity about the game would be nice.
At least you’re learning.. A- for effort.
 

Mikka84

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I agree. Yes we lost. But even according to JB they stuck to their guns and plan, and nearly pulled it off.

But apparently we are mediocrity embracing minions.

The group has obviously devised a strategy and game plan over summer and are now playing accordingly.

It will take time and continuity.

4 weeks ago, posters were saying our season is over due to loss of key players or that we will still end up bottom 4 etc.

So we nearly pull off a win after being jumped, in Perth with a depleted list and it's the end of the world for some.

Funny and sad at the same time.
I nearly pulled it off as well
 
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