Autopsy Round 3, 2019: Fremantle v St.Kilda

The_Steadier

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
May 6, 2009
Posts
5,617
Likes
9,567
AFL Club
St Kilda
How good would luke dunstan be if he didn't on average spend literally 10 minutes of every quarter on the pine?

His possie per minute rate (across several seasons now) is akin to tom mitchell.

It's such a tease to have a bloke so good at finding the ball but so poor at staying on the ground.

I don't subscribe to the theory that he sits down so much because the coaches make him do it.

There's been games over the years where we are literally down 1 or more players through injury and he still posts his rubbish TOG.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

VDS66

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 4, 2011
Posts
17,298
Likes
43,236
AFL Club
St Kilda
I nearly pulled it off as well
Unhappy endings all round.

On a serious note, we were all screaming for a game plan that the players would buy into.

We now have it as evidence by the effort and never say dies attitude.

We have to face reality that on terms of talent and experience, we're not quite there yet IMO.
 

Drake Huggins

Club Legend
Suspended
Joined
May 2, 2018
Posts
1,475
Likes
5,498
Location
The ghost of the G.G. Huggins Stand
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Stoke City, Southampton.
Marshall is an absolute no brainer. Pierce and Longer should not get into the 22 again unless he is injured pr horrendously out of form. Absolute natural footballer, great around the ground, I feel calm when he has the ball and he can actually hold a mark.
Absolutely nailed that rookie draft selection.

Re: hitouts, agree he is average. I would like to have seen what the clearances would look like had he been rucking for Freo
He is a novice at ruckwork. He is a late starter as well, coming into the system via Rugby. Ruckmen take time to learn their craft. If his ability to adapt to AFL is anything to go by, he will also become a top ruckman in time. Absolute gun compared to Longer and Pierce.
 

Mikka84

Club Legend
Joined
Feb 9, 2009
Posts
2,671
Likes
8,599
AFL Club
St Kilda
Unhappy endings all round.

On a serious note, we were all screaming for a game plan that the players would buy into.

We now have it as evidence by the effort and never say dies attitude.

We have to face reality that on terms of talent and experience, we're not quite there yet IMO.
Yep, agree totally.
 

kosifantutti

Premium Gold
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Posts
3,103
Likes
2,739
Location
North of Seaford
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Tottenham
He is a novice at ruckwork. He is a late starter as well, coming into the system via Rugby. Ruckmen take time to learn their craft. If his ability to adapt to AFL is anything to go by, he will also become a top ruckman in time. Absolute gun compared to Longer and Pierce.
I don’t think he was a rugby player. Moved to Victoria as a three year old.
 

Winmar2Lockett

Premiership Player
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Posts
4,381
Likes
12,208
Location
The Bear Cave
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Chicago Bulls
On the contrary i think we're one of the teams benefiting from lack of runners.

We've looked 'overcoached'/micromanaged for several years leading to a total stifling of creativity and flair.

Sure the coaching staff have been preaching more 'playing on instinct' in preseason.... but i think the lack of runners is really helping us make that a reality.
Play on instinct by all means. That doesn’t negate the need to make tactical adjustments when the opposition has momentum (which we didn’t do well at all... I fact it took intervention from the coaches at 1/4 to make those adjustments).




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

austinnn

Veteran GOP
Joined
Nov 7, 2012
Posts
4,391
Likes
12,544
Location
France
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Liverpool FC, Bristol City FC
He has played veey few games and we can already see how good he is with marking, tackles and ground work.

Give him couple of seasons and he will become pro with hitouts and tap work.
Not while we employ the world's worst ruck coach to oversee his development. His only hope is that Brendon Lade gives him some tips, but he's midfield coach for some reason. I get that it's good for coaches to be versatile, but I would shift them back to their areas of talent next season:

Lade as ruck coach
Ratten as mids coach
Scrotumback as bus driver
 

VDS66

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 4, 2011
Posts
17,298
Likes
43,236
AFL Club
St Kilda
Not while we employ the world's worst ruck coach to oversee his development. His only hope is that Brendon Lade gives him some tips, but he's midfield coach for some reason. I get that it's good for coaches to be versatile, but I would shift them back to their areas of talent next season:

Lade as ruck coach
Ratten as mids coach
Scrotumback as bus driver
Scrobes is a development coach. Think you'll find Lade is coaching rucks
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Diehard Saint

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Jan 17, 2016
Posts
6,338
Likes
19,367
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
you make me sick plugger, when we're up and about you're a pessimistic realist, when we're hot off a loss you're an optimistic realist. Your consistency is contrarian
The word “contrary” in the Oxford English dictionary has the name plugger66 next to it ;)
 

plugger66

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Posts
14,502
Likes
21,318
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Ormond AFC
The word “contrary” in the Oxford English dictionary has the name plugger66 next to it ;)
I reckon that’s harsh. Yes I went against most on here when I said I didn’t think we could beat freo but went with the majority of unbiased people. Now I am going against most on here by saying the effort was good but again I’m with the majority of unbiased people. I think some here go to high with their hopes and then come crashing down when those hopes are dashed. I can pick against the saints. Doesn’t worry me in the slightest but once I’m at the ground I’m barracking as loud if not louder than most on the crowd
 
Joined
Apr 5, 2016
Posts
2,281
Likes
5,166
Location
Everywhere
AFL Club
St Kilda
Plugger & VDS I understand your need to defend the club and its personnel as you have/had more to with the individuals than most on here. I also see the need to remain positive in that loss as we didnt play that well and only lost by a kick. But did you ever stop to think that at times your emotional attachment to personnel at the club may cloud your judgement?

The majority of posters have not been negative in a destructive manner, its mostly been constructively pointing out reasons how/why we should have won that game. The team performed admirably away from home and with a hostile crowd and iffy umpiring , the defence were amazing Geary, Savage, Battle, Wilkie, McKenzie and Brown kept us in the game early. But what most are suggesting with some tweaks they wouldnt have been under that much pressure. Good teams win those games.

Our forward set ups and lack of marking assistance for Bruce were damning. With Freo's defensive game holding up our ball movement
we needed another tall up forward. Thats a selection issue.

Our midfield (excluding Marshall) were destroyed at stoppages. Again some personnel changes and actually attacking them could have changed that.

Freo had a more talented midfield but with some smarter matchups and aggression we could have evened that contest. Look at how Fyfes confidence dipped after he was consistently caught with the ball by Steel. Ross neither won the ball nor tackled and should have been moved to different positions to break his tag. Did we see him giving it to his opponent or getting a chop out from his team mates - thats when you know a team and coaches are on song.

Perhaps we dont have the onfield leadership to address the above but IMO those processes start with the coaches. Richo seems to never challenge our players (midfield) to have a real go at the opposition and when they do ala Long they get dropped. Teams are always a reflection of their coach and for me we dont show enough aggression towards our opponents.
 
Last edited:

CursingFijian

Premium Platinum
Joined
Dec 6, 2014
Posts
4,754
Likes
12,601
Location
Location, Location
AFL Club
St Kilda
The biggest question that came out of the weekend for me is just how hard is Battle's head? Seriously, he needs to put a license on that jalopy if he is going to run over the competitions marquee players.

Marshall is quote clearly our best ruckman, except that he can't ruck. RoMa's jump looks as good as any, but his timing is off and he is still too light to grapple effectively. Marshall is certainly worth persevering with, and is almost playing well enough to make a case for playing second ruck / wing forward.

That last mix-up with the 6 man zones, did the coaches try to throw Battle forward as a marking target? With 8 seconds on the clock and the ball being thrown up in the centre (how bad were the bounces?) I might have whispered 'Longer' 3 times out loud hoping that might conjure him into the centre bounce. Ross played his cards way too early at that bounce, ran straight off his man to spread before the ball had even been tapped, then it ended up going straight to his man.

I thought we battled manfully after a very poor start. We look really aggressive in our attack on both the man and the ball. But when that aggression doesn't actually result in a turnover, or at the very least, locking the ball in we often get hurt. The ball just seemed to pinball around the contest until it broke through the circle of inside St Kilda players and into a Fremantle player's hands on the outside. And then if they were prepared to run from that point they opened us up easily.

We were absolutely smashed in centre clearances, so we are always on the back foot early. While we are defending well and with good vigour, chasing and tackling takes a lot of energy out of our attack when it is our time to use the ball. Bruce and Membrey needed one more focal point in attack, and unfortunately Kent, Parker and Lonie provided very little spark. I actually thought Parker tried to create a few times but nothing ever came of it.

I would give Kent a spell. 15 disposals at 53% efficiency is just not where we need him to be. Looks under done as well. and that may be a big contributing factor to his form struggle. Long or Young in. Steven back in for Clark. We should give Hawthorn a good nudge I reckon.
 

plugger66

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Posts
14,502
Likes
21,318
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Ormond AFC
Plugger & VDS I understand your need to defend the club and its personnel as you have/had more to with the individuals than most on here. I also see the need to remain positive in that loss as we didnt play that well and only lost by a kick. But did you ever stop to think that at times your emotional attachment to personnel at the club may cloud your judgement?

The majority of posters have not been negative in a destructive manner, its mostly been constructively pointing out reasons how/why we should have won that game. The team performed admirably away from home and with a hostile crowd and iffy umpiring , the defence were amazing Geary, Savage, Battle, Wilkie, McKenzie and Brown kept us in the game early. But what most are suggesting with some tweaks they wouldnt have been under that much pressure. Good teams win those games.

Our forward set ups and lack of marking assistance for Bruce were damning. With Freo's defensive game holding up our ball movement
we needed another tall up forward. Thats a selection issue.

Our midfield (excluding Marshall) were destroyed at stoppages. Again some personnel changes and actually attacking them could have changed that.

Freo had a more talented midfield but with some smarter matchups and aggression we could have evened that contest. Look at how Fyfes confidence dipped after he was consistently caught with the ball by Steel. Ross neither won the ball nor tackled and should have been moved to different positions to break his tag. Did we see him giving it to his opponent or getting a chop out from his team mates - thats when you know a team and coaches are on song.

Perhaps we dont have the onfield leadership to address the above but IMO those processes start with the coaches. Richo seems to never challenge our players (midfield) to have a real go at the opposition and when they do ala Long they get dropped. Teams are always a reflection of their coach and for me no professional sporting team should accept losing as a reasonable result.
I can honestly say 100% I do not defend the club because I may have had some involvement with ex players. Matter of fact a certain player saw that I said he should be dropped and wasn’t happy. Tip. Never leave computer on when people are here. My defence is genuinely what I believe. I also believe people guess issues with players or coaches to back up their arguement. An example in your post. Richo never seems to challenge the midfield. Really. How would any of know that but if we did richo shouldn’t be challenging the midfield it should be the midfield coach. This is example of something’s I do know about because of a small involvement. The line coaches do so much more talking to their players than the head coach. He talks generally to the group not specifics.
 

Diehard Saint

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Jan 17, 2016
Posts
6,338
Likes
19,367
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
I reckon that’s harsh. Yes I went against most on here when I said I didn’t think we could beat freo but went with the majority of unbiased people. Now I am going against most on here by saying the effort was good but again I’m with the majority of unbiased people. I think some here go to high with their hopes and then come crashing down when those hopes are dashed. I can pick against the saints. Doesn’t worry me in the slightest but once I’m at the ground I’m barracking as loud if not louder than most on the crowd
Plugg I was teasing you, hence the wink.
At the same time you must admit you can be pretty “dog with a bone” when you are arguing your point.
I actually agree with a fair amount you write.
Apologies for offending you :(
 

luca77

Club Legend
Joined
Sep 5, 2010
Posts
1,017
Likes
3,096
Location
Japan
AFL Club
St Kilda
I reckon that’s harsh. Yes I went against most on here when I said I didn’t think we could beat freo but went with the majority of unbiased people. Now I am going against most on here by saying the effort was good but again I’m with the majority of unbiased people. I think some here go to high with their hopes and then come crashing down when those hopes are dashed. I can pick against the saints. Doesn’t worry me in the slightest but once I’m at the ground I’m barracking as loud if not louder than most on the crowd
I can believe that, but I can also imagine most of your barracking is intentionally a direct contradiction of what the bloke behind you is shouting.

Bloke behind you shouts "Great mark Brucey!" You shout "Don't know if I'd call it great, but that was pretty good Brucey!"
Bloke behind you shouts "That's the worst kick I've ever seen Seb" You shout "Have seen better than that Seb, but have seen worse too!"
Bloke behind you shouts "That decision cost us the game ump!" You shout "A bad decision no doubt, but we missed a few easy ones earlier ump!"

Something like that?
 

plugger66

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Posts
14,502
Likes
21,318
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Ormond AFC
Plugg I was teasing you, hence the wink.
At the same time you must admit you can be pretty “dog with a bone” when you are arguing your point.
I actually agree with a fair amount you write.
Apologies if I offended you, it was meant to be a lighthearted comment. :(
No I knew you were joking but as I didn’t respond to mighty which I should have I just put my point across. Nothing offends me unless it having a go at daughter. All good. Just don’t swear
 

plugger66

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Posts
14,502
Likes
21,318
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Ormond AFC
I can believe that, but I can also imagine most of your barracking is intentionally a direct contradiction of what the bloke behind you is shouting.

Bloke behind you shouts "Great mark Brucey!" You shout "Don't know if I'd call it great, but that was pretty good Brucey!"
Bloke behind you shouts "That's the worst kick I've ever seen Seb" You shout "Have seen better than that Seb, but have seen worse too!"
Bloke behind you shouts "That decision cost us the game ump!" You shout "A bad decision no doubt, but we missed a few easy ones earlier ump!"

Something like that?
No more like whose shout is it. I never said I barracked for the saints at the footy. I barrack for the beer
 

MOLTEN GANGLANDS

All Australian
Joined
Jun 4, 2018
Posts
967
Likes
3,144
AFL Club
St Kilda
I reckon that’s harsh. Yes I went against most on here when I said I didn’t think we could beat freo but went with the majority of unbiased people. Now I am going against most on here by saying the effort was good but again I’m with the majority of unbiased people. I think some here go to high with their hopes and then come crashing down when those hopes are dashed. I can pick against the saints. Doesn’t worry me in the slightest but once I’m at the ground I’m barracking as loud if not louder than most on the crowd
case in point

;)

nah I dig your work plugs... most of the time at least :)
 
Top Bottom