Autopsy Round 3, 2021: Essendon v St.Kilda *STEELE 100TH* *CLARK 50TH* *CROUCH DEBUT*

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phantom13

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Sep 12, 2007
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The 1 inside 50 reflects more of his positioning rather than his disposal being poor.

100% of his disposals were in the backline in the first half. The 2nd half was a 60/40 split forward and back.
Thats not really the point though.

Anyone can go at 100% if they are taking safe short kicks. Hills role in the team is to be breaking lines and zones.

Given we had 3 less inside 50s than them in a 12 goal loss he should have been doing more.
 

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puppy_dog7

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Jul 29, 2007
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This is the 2nd time in the space of about 6 matches that Ross has had one of his poor efforts broadcast through the media. The other being his efforts on Josh Kelly in our embarrassing loss last year.

It's not a great sign for one of our leaders and being at the game he was definitely one that stood out to me to not be working defensively.
Yeah that footage on On the Couch was pretty damning of seb, which is strange because only a week ago against Melb he was about the only one who worked hard defensively in particular that chasedown holding the ball on Viney
 

MrFoster

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Can we get one thing straight - Bradley Hill is not and has never been a contested ball winner. Bagging him for not winning contested ball is as meaningless as bagging Lonie for not winning hitouts.

He was recruited to provide outside run and delivery. His main problem atm is that our midfield is not good enough and not quick enough (in action) to give him
or any other outside runner clear air to operate in.

It staggers me the way the Doggies, the Tiges and other clubs can manage to handball multiple times in a telephone booth and eventually create space while we continually go with one handball, then a mad panic followed closely by a rushed long kick.

Lots of time we seem to get the numbers around the ball, but then give up the advantage that creates by going with the rushed kick. No wonder our forwards are reluctant to lead.
To be fair, we don’t have the personnel that can play this hand ball happy game and I can’t recall we ever adopted this game style in the last 20 years.. to do this, you need pure mids (e.g. good at contest, used to break tackles and handball accurately under pressure) or players with speed and composure... apart from Steele, Gresham and maybe Clarke, I struggle to find another player who’s suited to this style, most of our players avoid contact like a plague when they have the ball, often prefer to give the hospital hand pass or bomb it long..

So I don’t think we are suited to this run and gun handball happy game style.. our best bet is
1. structure the team to set positions and unclog space e.g. forwards and Backs stay home (we tend to play a swarm game like the aus kick where a huge pack develops around the ball),
2. get the inside mids (Steele, Crouch, Bytel, Dunstan) to actually hunt the ball, when they get it, instruct them to beat his man by take on the tackler/s them release the outside runners like Hill, Sinclair and Billings.
3. Ask all forwards to lead or move to space (not just talks). This movement should create opportunities for a clean forward entry..

Above are simple/elementary parts of the game. We make it so complicated with this high press/tackle/long bomb style that no real skills are needed by half of the team so they can’t execute it when required.. From what I can see, all backs and mids doing are bang on the boot when they have the ball to hot spots where big packs are already waiting and guard space when ball is kicked to our forward line.. none of them take the responsibility to make the forwards job easier by taking on tackler/s, creating a 2 vs 1 situation or run with the ball... we only rely on opposition turnovers to transition the ball well (when their backs are out of position) but even this is happening less because opposition coaches have worked this out and getting their backs to stay home..
 
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aussierulesrules

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Not looking forward to fronting up at Easter lunch today. Entire extended family there, crows supporters the lot of them. They will all will be taking pot shots. its just bloody embarrassing.
This is where you’ve got to learn to banter and so-on.

This sort of stuff is what’s known as being “sh*t tested” and if you react defensively, or emotionally (eg. getting angry, sad, embarrassed, etc), or possibly even logically, you fail the test.

And the more you fail the tests, the more they keep coming. People will know that they can press your buttons, and so they’ll keep doing it.

It’s just human nature, if you’ve got a weakness, you’ll keep getting tested on that weakness, until you either break, or fix it.

So just realise that this stuff isn’t personal. You are not your football team’s weaknesses, or imperfections, and as such laugh their jibes off, or use other “sh*t test busters”, like agreeing and amplifying.

Where you agree with what they say and then amplify it. E.g. “St Kilda are the worst team in the AFL”. “No we’re not, we’re the worst team in the universe”.

It totally disarms them and leaves them nowhere else to go.

And once they see that they’re not able to get you off centre/get a rise out of you, etc, there’s no way they’ll keep trying, as they’ll look incredibly foolish if they do.

It’s like bullies. Do they target the strong? Hell no, they target the weak, and they’ll keep targeting them until they either break them, or they become strong and stand up to them. After which they’ll leave them alone and go target the next weak guy.

It’s just nature’s way of ensuring only the strong survive and the weak perish.

So if you’re someone who is constantly the butt of jokes, or jibes, or whatever, it’s because you’ve got a weak spot there and you need to fix it.
 

BrutThough

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Thats not really the point though.

Anyone can go at 100% if they are taking safe short kicks. Hills role in the team is to be breaking lines and zones.

Given we had 3 less inside 50s than them in a 12 goal loss he should have been doing more.
Against Melbourne is kicking was shocking. Against Essendon, he was able to hit those targets coming out of the backline that he missed against Essendon.

The question is why is he positioned down back being the one kicking it deep in the backline instead of the player up on the wing receiving it as we bring it out, using his run and foot skills to get it forward.
 

BrutThough

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Did you see the handball he gave Butler in the centre of the ground
Stats don’t always show the real picture
I didn't rewatch the game but watched the clip of all his disposals on the AFL app but I dont remember that one.

That disposal breakdown made his game look better than you would think reading the autopsy on here.
 

phantom13

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I didn't rewatch the game but watched the clip of all his disposals on the AFL app but I dont remember that one.

That disposal breakdown made his game look better than you would think reading the autopsy on here.
He had 6 of his 16 disposals forward of center. One inside 50, no goal assists and 2 score involvements.

He had 7 between the defensive 50 and center line.

2 turnover and 1 contested possesion.

Even statistically its just bang average.
 

MrFoster

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Thats not really the point though.

Anyone can go at 100% if they are taking safe short kicks. Hills role in the team is to be breaking lines and zones.

Given we had 3 less inside 50s than them in a 12 goal loss he should have been doing more.
Apart from long bombs, most of the team knows only to play safe e.g. going for simple 15 min. pass to a stationary man side ways and backwards which hardly makes any impact .. Billings does that at least 10 times a game so his stats looks good. Hill actually tried to make things happen, but because our midfield and forward line are often congested and with little movement, even a short kick forward is risky with the opposition only a 1-2 metres away..

That’s precisely why our forward line/midfield is always congested and the opposition forward line is always open when we lose the ball.. we basically play like a aus kick team.. little team structure and more of a swarm game.. beat them by pressure/tackle rather than skills/individual brilliance... This game style is tiring for players and boring to watch (refer to Richo’s last year)...

Rats, please do something.. you said when you took on the job that you want to players they can kick and want a style that can play to everyone’s strength... Please do it!!!
 

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phantom13

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I think Hill is our "quarterback" so i dont want him taking short chip options. Literally anyone can do those.

He needs to be biting off the difficult 45 degree, inside 50s etc etc. Id rather his efficiency is lower because he is trying to create.

Its personal opinion but i think Hill tried some stuff against Melb but could barely drop the ball to his foot, he tried nothing against Essendon and looks bereft of confidence.
 

plugger66

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There is a lot to unpack in hundreds of posts in this thread, and I have probably contributed enough of my own 2 cents. I just wanted to make one last comment on exactly this point.

I don't for a second believe this is true. Between being able to watch live again this year, watching replays, seeing other games, football media commentary and reports from training, surely a good number supporters on a forum like this can figure out the outline of a gameplan, structure, rotations, plan B etc. There is also some great analysis pieces out there (just usually not on AFL media, and definitely not from ex players).

However, IF our gameplan is in fact so complex that nobody outside the club can figure it out, for me that should be a MASSIVE MASSIVE red flag. Remember also, the average AFL footballer usually has the functioning IQ of a tree stump. FFS one of our old coaches moved into the wrong house!

Richmond's defensive structures / positioning / rotations are actually really easy to identify (live or on tv) and follow. Pretty confident it is also the best one out there. What Sydney is doing is not that massively complicated. Its just new and most importantly, plays to the strengths of their personnel AND the new rules. What Bevo did with the Dogs was again not that complex. Was just really effective for a brief period until it got worked out.

This is not the same game it was 12 months ago. Is our structure and ball movement adapting to a new season with new rules? Or are we stubbornly sticking with a foundational methodology (read plan A), that got figured out 12 months ago? Things don't have to be complicated or complex to be good. In my experience, oftentimes the opposite it true. But solutions do have to be rooted the the present, and not the 80s, 2009 or even 2020. Game has moved on. Is it really that complex though? Or does it just seem that way because things really aren't working for us?? Hence the 20 bang on comments from Narkles about needing fresh eyes / new IP for this year...
The arrogance that you think you can understand game plans but ex players and the media can’t astounds me To me you lose all credibility saying something as arrogant as that. I’m sure you will get a few who agree especially those who also think there knowledge is better than players who have been in the system. And then to say the majority have the brains of a tree stump is just more arrogance. It’s pathetic actually. I agree you do understand game plans if a game plan is writing in riddles.

anyway the whole topic is irrelevant if we are talking about the Essendon game. Any single person who went to the game could see it was lack of effort. If you could see a game plan in that game you are seriously making it up.
 

Mowman

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The arrogance that you think you can understand game plans but ex players and the media can’t astounds me To me you lose all credibility saying something as arrogant as that. I’m sure you will get a few who agree especially those who also think there knowledge is better than players who have been in the system. And then to say the majority have the brains of a tree stump is just more arrogance. It’s pathetic actually. I agree you do understand game plans if a game plan is writing in riddles.

anyway the whole topic is irrelevant if we are talking about the Essendon game. Any single person who went to the game could see it was lack of effort. If you could see a game plan in that game you are seriously making it up.
At least he talks footy
You’re the 1st sook up when someone replys to you in a similar fashion to what you just did
Who are you to say what we know and don’t know
 

Parkysp

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I don't know too much about game plans but for the love of all things good can we please stop using Dougs for kick ins. I swear he looks for himself up the ground and then goes short using last year's rules when he can't (obviously) find himself up the ground.
Oh and Plugs I'd normally agree about not seeing defensive work rate off the t.v but it was so obvious on Sat that you didn't need to be at the ground. I'm glad I had my Mum's 80th birthday so couldn't get to the ground to witness it.
 

BrutThough

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He had 6 of his 16 disposals forward of center. One inside 50, no goal assists and 2 score involvements.

He had 7 between the defensive 50 and center line.

2 turnover and 1 contested possesion.

Even statistically its just bang average.
He didn't have a great game but it wasnt from him having poor disposal which is what the original comment of your I replied to said.
 

plugger66

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At least he talks footy
You’re the 1st sook up when someone replys to you in a similar fashion to what you just did
Who are you to say what we know and don’t know
I’m really glad you seem to have the need to stick up for him when I don’t rate what he writes. It’s so good of you. And as if I sook up. If I did I would quote all the losers who had a go at me for the butler decision. But good boy. Keep sticking up for him. And I told you last night why I think he me you and everyone else here wouldn’t understand game plans. I’m not going through that again but I trust Lenny Hayes over him. And me. When he writes something that I think makes sense I won’t comment. You obviously think ex footballers know less than him about game plans. I don’t NDA said so. By the way I backed you at very small odds to be the first reply. At least I got a small collect.
 

Mowman

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I’m really glad you seem to have the need to stick up for him when I don’t rate what he writes. It’s so good of you. And as if I sook up. If I did I would quote all the losers who had a go at me for the butler decision. But good boy. Keep sticking up for him. And I told you last night why I think he me you and everyone else here wouldn’t understand game plans. I’m not going through that again but I trust Lenny Hayes over him. And me. When he writes something that I think makes sense I won’t comment. You obviously think ex footballers know less than him about game plans. I don’t NDA said so. By the way I backed you at very small odds to be the first reply. At least I got a small collect.
Butler decision 😂
How about Marshall and Ryder or Highmore
You might have told me something last night but once again you were wrong
 

Mowman

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I’m really glad you seem to have the need to stick up for him when I don’t rate what he writes. It’s so good of you. And as if I sook up. If I did I would quote all the losers who had a go at me for the butler decision. But good boy. Keep sticking up for him. And I told you last night why I think he me you and everyone else here wouldn’t understand game plans. I’m not going through that again but I trust Lenny Hayes over him. And me. When he writes something that I think makes sense I won’t comment. You obviously think ex footballers know less than him about game plans. I don’t NDA said so. By the way I backed you at very small odds to be the first reply. At least I got a small collect.
I trust Lenny Haye over him lol
Just get of the phone to Lenny 😂
 

El_Duderino

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Posted this in the west coast thread but more relevant in here.


We don’t make finals anyway I reckon. Still list a lot of percentage thanks to that ******* Essendon game.

Why is it always those campaigners that fu** our season?

2005/2009/2013/2017/2021

Huh.... anyone see a pattern here?
also interesting is we failed to lose to them in the previous season in all of the above.
Beat them twice in 2004/ lost in round 13 when labelled soft - bounced back and won nine/eleven but then lose a home prelim.

beat them twice in 08/ beat them once in 09 but then the 19 match losing streak ended with them. We made a gf after this. But we lose it.

beat them in 2012 by 71 points in a shock win given where Essendon were - think their drugs may have been wearing off/ 2013 we start slowly with upset loss to Gold Coast but bounce back with a big win over giants before Goddard beats us in his first game against us and we never recover.

2016 - beat them twice when they had a vfl side out there/ 2017 joe takes mark of the year over Carlisle and we have a mare after thrashing Richmond the week before. This match completely turns the season around for us and us the beginning of the end for Richo.

2020 - beat them when they are decimated by injury/ 2021 we all know what happens - it’s what happens next we need to look at.
 

plugger66

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I trust Lenny Haye over him lol
Just get of the phone to Lenny 😂
I haven’t spoken to him for a while. Are you actually doubting I know him. Pretty sure he lived with me. Pretty sure I spoke to him over Xmas. Not about game plans though. Just like normal mates talking about his new farm and his cows. Should I have commented over you giving Timmy that quote. No I shouldn’t so I’d suggest you trust me about Lenny anyway if you don’t believe that’s fine. I’d still trust players in the media over everyone on here. And like I said anyone at the game on Saturday are making it up if they think the game plan was the issue on Saturday. The effort was so poor no one would have a clue of game plan. The worst part is I think you actually agree with that but you rather have a go at me. That’s fine if you don’t want mowing man and golfers to stick together.
 

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