Autopsy Round 3, 2021: Essendon v St.Kilda *STEELE 100TH* *CLARK 50TH* *CROUCH DEBUT*

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Mowman

Premium Gold
May 19, 2013
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I agree with you. That’s what I mean. We’re getting the ball in there but not in an effective way. It’s not good enough.
Last year we were getting it in deep and far (mmmmm) and really giving our forwards a better chance to kick goals.
Clubs are leaving a player in our backline and not letting Butler run forward onto ball with no one in front of him
 

NarklesHelmet

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gringo2011

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So let’s get this straight. We won both praccy games and our first match with the current game plan but out of the blue the players have decided we are giving up because the current game plan doesn’t work. Do you understand how silly that sounds. And how pathetic it makes the players sounds. I can’t have that. I won’t have that as a reason.

We played North Melbourne at half strength, it was like playing an under 9s squad. Carlton worried us and we nearly lost that game and they were playing the same game plan as last year. They have since upped their speed of ball movement and their disposal quality. I saw our stat rankings today, it's really depressing reading.


Our High rankings
● Ranked 5th in Clearances Per Game
● Ranked 1st in Clangers Per Game
● Ranked 1st in Team to Opponent Clangers Per Game Diff.
Our Low Rankings

● Ranked 15th in Handballs Per Game
● Ranked 16th in Disposals Per Game
● Ranked 16th in Marks Per Game
● Ranked 14th in Points Per Game
● Ranked 13th in Hitouts Per Game
● Ranked 16th in Goal Assists Per Game
● Ranked 13th in least Opponent Kicks Per Game
● Ranked 17th in least Opponent Handballs Per Game
● Ranked 17th in least Opponent Disposals Per Game
● Ranked 12th in least Opponent Marks Per Game
● Ranked 17th in least Opponent Points Per Game
● Ranked 16th in least Opponent Hitouts Per Game
● Ranked 16th in least Opponent Inside 50s Per Game
● Ranked 15th in least Opponent Goal Assists Per Game
● Ranked 14th in least Opponent Clearances Per Game
● Ranked 14th in least Opponent Rebound 50s Per Game
● Ranked 17th in Team to Opponent Handballs Per Game Diff.
● Ranked 16th in Team to Opponent Disposals Per Game Diff.
● Ranked 16th in Team to Opponent Marks Per Game Diff.
● Ranked 17th in Team to Opponent Points Per Game Diff.
● Ranked 16th in Team to Opponent Hitouts Per Game Diff.
● Ranked 14th in Team to Opponent Inside 50s Per Game Diff.
● Ranked 17th in Team to Opponent Goal Assists Per Game Diff.
 

BrutThough

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 2, 2010
11,412
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We played North Melbourne at half strength, it was like playing an under 9s squad. Carlton worried us and we nearly lost that game and they were playing the same game plan as last year. They have since upped their speed of ball movement and their disposal quality. I saw our stat rankings today, it's really depressing reading.


Our High rankings
● Ranked 5th in Clearances Per Game
● Ranked 1st in Clangers Per Game
● Ranked 1st in Team to Opponent Clangers Per Game Diff.
Our Low Rankings

● Ranked 15th in Handballs Per Game
● Ranked 16th in Disposals Per Game
● Ranked 16th in Marks Per Game
● Ranked 14th in Points Per Game
● Ranked 13th in Hitouts Per Game
● Ranked 16th in Goal Assists Per Game
● Ranked 13th in least Opponent Kicks Per Game
● Ranked 17th in least Opponent Handballs Per Game
● Ranked 17th in least Opponent Disposals Per Game
● Ranked 12th in least Opponent Marks Per Game
● Ranked 17th in least Opponent Points Per Game
● Ranked 16th in least Opponent Hitouts Per Game
● Ranked 16th in least Opponent Inside 50s Per Game
● Ranked 15th in least Opponent Goal Assists Per Game
● Ranked 14th in least Opponent Clearances Per Game
● Ranked 14th in least Opponent Rebound 50s Per Game
● Ranked 17th in Team to Opponent Handballs Per Game Diff.
● Ranked 16th in Team to Opponent Disposals Per Game Diff.
● Ranked 16th in Team to Opponent Marks Per Game Diff.
● Ranked 17th in Team to Opponent Points Per Game Diff.
● Ranked 16th in Team to Opponent Hitouts Per Game Diff.
● Ranked 14th in Team to Opponent Inside 50s Per Game Diff.
● Ranked 17th in Team to Opponent Goal Assists Per Game Diff.
Of course our stat rankings are low when we have played 2 out of 3 crap games.

But the group is capable of playing much better football than they have this past few weeks so just because those are the rankings now doesnt mean it has to stay that way for the rest of the season.
 

pebblesofsand

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Oct 18, 2011
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Don’t think so mate, this article from our website on him last year doesn’t mention it:

Sorry Narks but that article doesn't bode well for us.

Written well before the stand the mark rule change was announced and Rath seems to have a particular view of the relationship between defence and attack.

The problem I see is that Ratten and Rath may have invested so much emotional capital in their concepts that it may take them a while to reassess its viability under the new rules.

Interesting to note that the type of players they reckon are best suited to a faster more instinctive style of play were moved on by Rath and Ratten.

Explosive and instinctive players like Jonathon Marsh, Matty Parker and Nicholas Hind – who wield the potential to be deployed as opposition off-setters – could benefit most from Ratten’s philosophy.
 

plugger66

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 10, 2011
27,234
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We played North Melbourne at half strength, it was like playing an under 9s squad. Carlton worried us and we nearly lost that game and they were playing the same game plan as last year. They have since upped their speed of ball movement and their disposal quality. I saw our stat rankings today, it's really depressing reading.


Our High rankings
● Ranked 5th in Clearances Per Game
● Ranked 1st in Clangers Per Game
● Ranked 1st in Team to Opponent Clangers Per Game Diff.
Our Low Rankings

● Ranked 15th in Handballs Per Game
● Ranked 16th in Disposals Per Game
● Ranked 16th in Marks Per Game
● Ranked 14th in Points Per Game
● Ranked 13th in Hitouts Per Game
● Ranked 16th in Goal Assists Per Game
● Ranked 13th in least Opponent Kicks Per Game
● Ranked 17th in least Opponent Handballs Per Game
● Ranked 17th in least Opponent Disposals Per Game
● Ranked 12th in least Opponent Marks Per Game
● Ranked 17th in least Opponent Points Per Game
● Ranked 16th in least Opponent Hitouts Per Game
● Ranked 16th in least Opponent Inside 50s Per Game
● Ranked 15th in least Opponent Goal Assists Per Game
● Ranked 14th in least Opponent Clearances Per Game
● Ranked 14th in least Opponent Rebound 50s Per Game
● Ranked 17th in Team to Opponent Handballs Per Game Diff.
● Ranked 16th in Team to Opponent Disposals Per Game Diff.
● Ranked 16th in Team to Opponent Marks Per Game Diff.
● Ranked 17th in Team to Opponent Points Per Game Diff.
● Ranked 16th in Team to Opponent Hitouts Per Game Diff.
● Ranked 14th in Team to Opponent Inside 50s Per Game Diff.
● Ranked 17th in Team to Opponent Goal Assists Per Game Diff.
Of course they are crap. Have you seen our last 2 games. You keep going on about how we looked ordinary in the first 2 games but I’m guessing you saw worrying signs after 19 rounds in 2009. Anyway my point is there was no need for players to worry about game plans after the gws game. We had won 3 out of 3. Something happened since then. Doubt it’s the players not giving effort because they don’t like a game plan. 10 year kids wouldn’t even do that. Something has happened. It’s mysterious
 

gringo2011

Premium Gold
Nov 12, 2011
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Of course our stat rankings are low when we have played 2 out of 3 crap games.

But the group is capable of playing much better football than they have this past few weeks so just because those are the rankings now doesnt mean it has to stay that way for the rest of the season.

Of course not but it's pretty damning that we are pretty much a bottom 4 team on every key indictor. We have to just absolutely turn this around quickly or we will finish the season in the bottom 4. Sides like Melbourne re up the top end not playing that well with their 2 key forwards to come back. The way key lead up forwards are playing Ben Brown could kick 15 goals in a game.
 

BrutThough

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 2, 2010
11,412
43,071
AFL Club
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Sorry Narks but that article doesn't bode well for us.

Written well before the stand the mark rule change was announced and Rath seems to have a particular view of the relationship between defence and attack.

The problem I see is that Ratten and Rath may have invested so much emotional capital in their concepts that it may take them a while to reassess its viability under the new rules.

Interesting to note that the type of players they reckon are best suited to a faster more instinctive style of play were moved on by Rath and Ratten.

Explosive and instinctive players like Jonathon Marsh, Matty Parker and Nicholas Hind – who wield the potential to be deployed as opposition off-setters – could benefit most from Ratten’s philosophy.
He wouldn't have the reputation for being as good as he is if he count adapt to a rule change.
 

BrutThough

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 2, 2010
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Of course not but it's pretty damning that we are pretty much a bottom 4 team on every key indictor. We have to just absolutely turn this around quickly or we will finish the season in the bottom 4. Sides like Melbourne re up the top end not playing that well with their 2 key forwards to come back. The way key lead up forwards are playing Ben Brown could kick 15 goals in a game.
And he could also continue to misread the ball every time its in the air and be extremely underwhelming like he was last year.

We are 3 rounds in. Do you actually expect us to play as poorly as we did on Saturday for every game for the remainder of the season?
 

gringo2011

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Nov 12, 2011
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Of course they are crap. Have you seen our last 2 games. You keep going on about how we looked ordinary in the first 2 games but I’m guessing you saw worrying signs after 19 rounds in 2009. Anyway my point is there was no need for players to worry about game plans after the gws game. We had won 3 out of 3. Something happened since then. Doubt it’s the players not giving effort because they don’t like a game plan. 10 year kids wouldn’t even do that. Something has happened. It’s mysterious

I respectfully disagree, I was trying to tell people in every autopsy this year, there were some really worrying signs and they have eventuated after being small issues they have become full blown issues. I know if you are negative about the Saints you're hardly Nostradamus but if you have time go back and watch some of those with an eye on how we are playing now. I think you'll see similarities even though they weren't at the same levels.
 

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plugger66

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 10, 2011
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Of course not but it's pretty damning that we are pretty much a bottom 4 team on every key indictor. We have to just absolutely turn this around quickly or we will finish the season in the bottom 4. Sides like Melbourne re up the top end not playing that well with their 2 key forwards to come back. The way key lead up forwards are playing Ben Brown could kick 15 goals in a game.
Or he could be no good. You would tell us he is no good if he was at the saints and we were playing well. I wish you thought as much of our side as you do other sides. Even if we were going well
 

plugger66

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 10, 2011
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I respectfully disagree, I was trying to tell people in every autopsy this year, there were some really worrying signs and they have eventuated after being small issues they have become full blown issues. I know if you are negative about the Saints you're hardly Nostradamus but if you have time go back and watch some of those with an eye on how we are playing now. I think you'll see similarities even though they weren't at the same levels.
So the game plan is no good so the players gave no effort because I’m telling you there was only one problem Saturday and that was effort. And I’m not watching anything from the past but I’d be sure I see the game different to you. If you watch footy looking for faults you will find them. If you watch the footy not looking for them you will find them if they are major faults like the last 2 games.
 

gringo2011

Premium Gold
Nov 12, 2011
35,722
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And he could also continue to misread the ball every time its in the air and be extremely underwhelming like he was last year.

We are 3 rounds in. Do you actually expect us to play as poorly as we did on Saturday for every game for the remainder of the season?

I sure hope not, but like momentum can create it's own momentum the opposite can be true also. You don't get many weeks to get it right before your season is done and you're too far back. I actually think we could come close to winning this week with all the pressure but I still doubt our list is going to do any real damage this year.
 

NarklesHelmet

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Sorry Narks but that article doesn't bode well for us.

Written well before the stand the mark rule change was announced and Rath seems to have a particular view of the relationship between defence and attack.

The problem I see is that Ratten and Rath may have invested so much emotional capital in their concepts that it may take them a while to reassess its viability under the new rules.

Interesting to note that the type of players they reckon are best suited to a faster more instinctive style of play were moved on by Rath and Ratten.

Explosive and instinctive players like Jonathon Marsh, Matty Parker and Nicholas Hind – who wield the potential to be deployed as opposition off-setters – could benefit most from Ratten’s philosophy.
Ha ha, thought exactly the same thing actually as you when I read it; wasn’t very comforting!
 
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plugger66

Brownlow Medallist
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I sure hope not, but like momentum can create it's own momentum the opposite can be true also. You don't get many weeks to get it right before your season is done and you're too far back. I actually think we could come close to winning this week with all the pressure but I still doubt our list is going to do any real damage this year.
How can we come close to winning if it’s structure or game plan? If it is that it ain’t getting fixed in a week so are you actually suggesting it is effort? Me thinks you are.
 

gringo2011

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Or he could be no good. You would tell us he is no good if he was at the saints and we were playing well. I wish you thought as much of our side as you do other sides. Even if we were going well

No I wouldn't I rate Brown. I rate Membrey too and I rated Bruce and wanted to keep him to protect King from being heaped with expectation. Brown nearly won the Coleman a couple of seasons ago and had one down year and everyone wrote him off. I rate Steele very highly and I rated all our players who were killing it last year. Just because they play for our club they don't get a free pass though. I have stood up for Seb Ross and Hill even in the last couple of days....even though I'm pissed off with them both. Who do you think looks elite this year at the Saints? Or even A grade?
 

plugger66

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No I wouldn't I rate Brown. I rate Membrey too and I rated Bruce and wanted to keep him to protect King from being heaped with expectation. Brown nearly won the Coleman a couple of seasons ago and had one down year and everyone wrote him off. I rate Steele very highly and I rated all our players who were killing it last year. Just because they play for our club they don't get a free pass though. I have stood up for Seb Ross and Hill even in the last couple of days....even though I'm pissed off with them both. Who do you think looks elite this year at the Saints? Or even A grade?
I’m not sure you are getting what I’m saying I give really honest ratings of saints players. Honest enough to cop it from a few or more than a few. What I don’t do is find reasons to rap up other sides or players when I wouldn’t if they played for us.
 

gringo2011

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How can we come close to winning if it’s structure or game plan? If it is that it ain’t getting fixed in a week so are you actually suggesting it is effort? Me thinks you are.

I think you can lift everything to an unsustainable level and roll teams when under pressure. I think Essendon did that to us and even Carlton's win was on the back of some incredibly good individual performances from guys playing well above their regular games. Often after getting hammered by the media and fans sides come out and play above normal energy and application levels. I expect we could do that and if the Eagles aren't in town seeing it build up could get hit unprepared for what's coming. Effort can win the odd match but Richo showed us effort is no answer without planning.
 

gringo2011

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I’m not sure you are getting what I’m saying I give really honest ratings of saints players. Honest enough to cop it from a few or more than a few. What I don’t do is find reasons to rap up other sides or players when I wouldn’t if they played for us.

You are into betting, if Melbourne was a racehorse it has solid form and hasn't even peaked. I think they should play finals pretty easily if they keep it up and get back good players. I think Sydney obviously look the form team of the early season but you wonder if they'll be able to sustain it with a heavy youth core. The Dees look a good solid list to me now. GWS look the opposite, they look as listless as us.
 

plugger66

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I think you can lift everything to an unsustainable level and roll teams when under pressure. I think Essendon did that to us and even Carlton's win was on the back of some incredibly good individual performances from guys playing well above their regular games. Often after getting hammered by the media and fans sides come out and play above normal energy and application levels. I expect we could do that and if the Eagles aren't in town seeing it build up could get hit unprepared for what's coming. Effort can win the odd match but Richo showed us effort is no answer without planning.
But people are saying the game plan is that bad players just gave no effort. Now we are going to give effort because the players have been knocked. I would have thought good effort and a poor game plan is a loss no matter the effort. By the way Essendon had normal effort and that’s why they beat us. We had no effort so their normal effort gave them a huge win.
 

BrutThough

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I sure hope not, but like momentum can create it's own momentum the opposite can be true also. You don't get many weeks to get it right before your season is done and you're too far back. I actually think we could come close to winning this week with all the pressure but I still doubt our list is going to do any real damage this year.
We are lucky right now that we still have time to turn it around. It's a long season.

Last year, 5 of the 8 teams who were sitting in the 8 and looking great finished bottom 6. Another just scrapped into finals. Us, Gold Coast and Fremantle all started 2019 great and missed finals.

We can turn the momentum around.
 

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