Autopsy Round 3, 2021: Hawks lose to Cats, Easter Monday

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Judd2Sewell

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The Howe kick to Burgoyne was a good option. Open up fat side of the ground, frost was already pushing into space on the assumption silk takes the mark.

Howe needs to take some of the blame for not executing a kick as well as he could but mostly reckon Burgoyne should have come at the ball & also need to gcredit to the cats for cutting it off and making us pay. Great goal.

if it was anyone other than Howe taking that kick, we wouldn’t be so focused on the kicker. Just another chance to have a crack at the whipping boy.

there are other errors made by him and other players that were worse.

we need to keep going for those kicks, not revert to down the line rubbish and long bombs to established defensive structures.

same goes for a couple of frosty’s kicking errors, the intent was good just need to be better at the execution.
Any player would be criticized for that skill error.

It's not just another chance to have a crack at a whipping boy. Howe is criticized, and has been given the "whipping boy" moniker, for a reason.

Frost and CJ can make those costly mistakes, but what they bring to the side heavily outweighs any such mistakes. The same cannot be said for Howe.
 

Brishawk

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The Frosty error where he tried to grab a completely loose ball on the half-back line, at a very comfortable height, with one hand...and missed it completely. :oops: :oops: :oops:

I can't remember if it ended in a goal for them or not.
He also went one handed at a ball kicked into the cats forward line and missed it. They got a goal from that one for sure.
 

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SammyC

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The Daniel Howe kick was to win the game and not save it! The option was correct the execution not so much. We move on
100%.

Better executed it gets to burgoyne and we goal.

But I think the bigger error is Burgoyne sitting back. He needed to get some body in to stop the ball falling anywhere but directly in front of the charging (overcommitted) cats player, we mop up, have the numbers and can walk it in. Silk knew it too.

we need to be more aggressive with the switch, usethe width of the ground, spread defenses and hit up fwds in space.
 

LegendLewis

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I watched the tv where the guys were walking off and they were hurting.

They will grow from this loss..
They crossed to Cousins and Nash in the stands during the last quarter and they could have been one of us, they were so invested and emotionally 'pinged' by the moment. It was great to see how much they cared.
 

savagelunchbox

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We might not train like that but it's happened for so long on game days (I'm talking back to the glory days) that I find it very hard to believe it's not part of our MO. It's been consistent and long term.

Our transition from back to front half has certainly changed. From the precision pick apart we were so great at to the more daring, less predictable and less consistent version we see now.... but the final connection in to the forwardline has been an enduring one for a long time.

So if we are training something else, I fear these kids will never get it, because even our superstars couldn't lol .... but at least they were awesome talents to manufacture goals anyway.

Goals are being scored quite easily now but we've rustled up 16 in 2 weeks because we still go over the man on the mark to the hot spot or pocket with kicks that the defenders seem to read even better than we do (weird considering we all know where it's going). But yeah we've played 2 excellent defensive sides the past 2 weeks so fingers crossed we either are more successful at it going forward or start executing more of that you believe is what we train for. :)
It is a strategy despite what the training watchers will tell you.
Think about it, do you really need to practice kicking to within a spot with a 20m diameter? And can you really practice crashing the pack with the intention of bringing the ball to ground for your small when, 1. It's training and you don't risk injuries at training, and 2. the defenders know the plan and it's about causing errors through pressure which doesn't exist when you know what's coming.

A better source for know if it is or isn't a strategy is to listen to the former players when they're asked about it. They'll tell you it is. (Unfortunately radio interviews with coaches aren't stored online for more than a week if at all. This is something you'll have to take my word for it.)
 

burnside5

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The Daniel Howe kick was to win the game and not save it! The option was correct the execution not so much. We move on
Personally I am not sure about that being the best option to be honest at that stage pf the game; unless no one at all is around so if the kick floated a bit Burgoyne still marks it. That wasn't the case so at that stage of the game would prefer to kick as long as you can towards goals and hope (yes long shot) that Lewis or Koz can mark it or at least bring it to ground.
 

AlwaysHawks15

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Silk going to ground didn't help.
Hats off to Frost. Went on a 100m flat out sprint with 3 efforts and nearly got there. Bloke busts a gasket every game for us.
Actually think had Clarke not dished it off and got it back again halting the momentum Frost had built up he would have been caught. Clarke is a great athlete but so is Frost. Was thrilling to watch 2 racehorses take eachother on even though it didnt end well for us. CJ flew into the frame too.
 

Blackhawk42

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The Daniel Howe kick was to win the game and not save it! The option was correct the execution not so much. We move on
I personally disagree with this. We had Geelong on the ropes and Howe found himself 70 out from home. That ball had to hit 20m out from goal to give Lewis, Kosi or one of our rucks a chance at worst. At best he needed to pin point a free target withing scoring distance which was damn near impossible in that game yesterday.

Brockman was looking dangerous in that final quarter and Moore could have easily had 3 opportunistic goals for the day. If that ball hits the deck inside our 50 one of those boys were every chance to swoop and force another shot on goal.
 

TheFourPillars

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It is a strategy despite what the training watchers will tell you.
Think about it, do you really need to practice kicking to within a spot with a 20m diameter? And can you really practice crashing the pack with the intention of bringing the ball to ground for your small when, 1. It's training and you don't risk injuries at training, and 2. the defenders know the plan and it's about causing errors through pressure which doesn't exist when you know what's coming.

A better source for know if it is or isn't a strategy is to listen to the former players when they're asked about it. They'll tell you it is. (Unfortunately radio interviews with coaches aren't stored online for more than a week if at all. This is something you'll have to take my word for it.)
No one is arguing that was a strategy in our 3 peat days no one in fact we had a bloody square at training at both ends of the ground that players use to kick into. Those were the days. Today there is no square. The fact that u say that they dont have to train for it says it all you just dont want to believe in anything else. We play a completely different brand of football to those days. The fact we kick it long inside 50 is only a symptom of the game or players not following instruction. Not being composed not thinking their way through it.

You will see the fruits of this new gameplan in the coming years
 

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A Diakos

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Hey Billy, at least Jeff doesn't look like he was poured into his clothes and forgot to say "when". Shouldn't pick on you though, will be forever grateful to you for helping us win the 1989 grand final with your abysmal performance. 4 disposals. In 100 minutes of actual game time, you touched the ball 4 times. Thank you for letting Geelong play a man down, it helped enormously.

the irony of all this is that both Billy Brownless and hairy Garry grew up mad Hawthorn supporters
 

TylerDurden

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No one is arguing that was a strategy in our 3 peat days no one in fact we had a bloody square at training at both ends of the ground that players use to kick into. Those were the days. Today there is no square. The fact that u say that they dont have to train for it says it all you just dont want to believe in anything else. We play a completely different brand of football to those days. The fact we kick it long inside 50 is only a symptom of the game or players not following instruction. Not being composed not thinking their way through it.

You will see the fruits of this new gameplan in the coming years
It's also the pressure applied by the opposition. You simply can never replicate it at training.
Crowd noise, the pressure of 4 points on the line, a furious coach.
So many reasons why some players make it, and others can't deal with the stress of gameday.
 

mknaven

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We made a glut of errors all day. A lot of our kicks were loopy, Worpedo had a mare. Brockman failed to pick up a lot of contested groundballs - I understand due to his age & size, but I hope he remedies that either across this season or next. He certainly knows where the goals are. Howe made a fair few howlers, but continually managed to get involved (for better or worse). Took a great mark before that ill-fated switch across goal late in the game. Frost made a number of mistakes, but didn't seem to change his decision making with ball in hand which bothered me. In the dying stages of the game, the comments were 'get the ball in the hawks best ball users hands' when we gave the ball to Silk - who then decided to give it to Frost!!
I was very interested in M Lewis game up fwd given TOB was dropped for his inability to compete against the Tiger defence and I thought M Lewis brought the goods. Still a lot of scope for improvement, but a good first up showing for him to build on. Would've been nice for him to kick that goal after the Morrison DTG free though. Speaking of which, I'm glad the broadcaster repeatedly showed the footage of Jelwood being pushed in the kicking action to highlight the poor DTG fk decision into goal scoring territory.
 

PAOKTSIS

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We could've won the game if it wasn't for one or a combination of the following: a couple of dubious free kicks to Geelong that lead to goals, Kosi's dropped chest mark right in front of goal and the non-call of holding the ball against Geelong in our forward 50 during the last quarter. Let that sink in for a moment. We were inches away from winning the game - a team that is in a rebuilding phase, expected to finish bottom 4-6 and played nowhere near our best came so close to beating one of the flag favourites. The missing players from both team balanced each other out.

I walked away from the game disappointed, but at the same time very optimistic and encouraged about our future.

Some comments:

- Lewis and Kosi MUST be given plenty of opportunities to play together in the forward line. This was the first time they were ever in the same side, and need to be given the opportunity to gel. Things were starting to work well in the last quarter. I can't wait to see what Jeka also has to offer;
- Moore must be given the opportunity to work together with the guys mentioned above. He can become a really classy and opportunistic small forward;
- Brockman, as above. The experience he gained from this game is invaluable;
- CJ, Impey and Scrimshaw are guns;
- Hardwick is super reliable;
- Chad and JOM will be there when we're challenging again.

There are so many positives to take out of the game. Many more than I've written above. We're young and you can just sense the endeavour and hunger being back in the team again. What's even more encouraging is that we have plenty of youngsters who were out injured or waiting for their opportunity. We're developing the cattle, and we'll add more again in this year's draft. Monday's game reminded me of 2005-2006 where we had talent and endeavour, but made skill errors and didn't always execute the game plan properly- however things started 'clicking' by 2007-2008. I feel (and hope) we're in a similar position now. Things will eventually click again.
 

RoughysMullet

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The Daniel Howe kick was to win the game and not save it! The option was correct the execution not so much. We move on
By the sounds of Clarko’s comments the instruction was to switch the play where we could rather than bomb long to the predictable area where Geelong defence has traditionally been able to easily pick us off with a spoil or intercept mark.. think Howe was following that instruction..

I really like the intent but as mentioned the execution at that stage of the game was just so costly and think going long and deep was the best call...

Anyway it stings but no use dwelling on it, we’ll be better for it...keep digging in and having a crack like we have last two weeks and the results will come..
 

cuttlefish

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Clarko disagrees...


Don’t blame Howe
Clarko defends Hawk in error-hit display

Hawthorn coach Alastair Clarkson said Daniel Howe was “following instructions” when he made two crucial errors in yesterday’s five-point loss to Geelong and suggested that these blunders were merely “two of 100’’ that the Hawks made.


Clarkson said that Howe, who turned the ball over in what led to the last goal kicked by the Cats (to Jordan Clark), would be “feeling low”, but that the Hawks had to take chances to get themselves into the game, as they came from behind in the final quarter.


Howe subsequently made an error with a failed switch of play when Hawthorn were pressing for the match-winning goal, only to have the ball turned over.


“They were switch opportunities,” said Clarkson. “To give ourselves a chance to get back into the game, we had to take our chances.


“He didn’t execute as well as he’d like, but he was following instructions in terms of trying to generate some open space ... In endeavour to do that, he made two errors. But they were ... two errors of 100 that we made over the course of the day. Mistakes happen in games of footy. We’ll wrap our arms around him. He’ll feel pretty low and feel like he contributed to the loss. But as I said, there were probably 100 other incidents in the course of the game.”
...and that, in a nutshell, is good leadership from Clarko.
 

Argy

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The Daniel Howe kick was to win the game and not save it! The option was correct the execution not so much. We move on
Most people here don't seem to realise that we are building and Howe might, or might not, be part of the final solution but he is definitely part of the process of getting there.
 

Adebisi

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Does anyone know what the average games experience and or age was for the two sides on Monday? There seems to be a strong narrative that Geelong were the experienced side and we were the super young inexperienced side. But was that the case?
 

MasterSamurai

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I personally disagree with this. We had Geelong on the ropes and Howe found himself 70 out from home. That ball had to hit 20m out from goal to give Lewis, Kosi or one of our rucks a chance at worst. At best he needed to pin point a free target withing scoring distance which was damn near impossible in that game yesterday.

Brockman was looking dangerous in that final quarter and Moore could have easily had 3 opportunistic goals for the day. If that ball hits the deck inside our 50 one of those boys were every chance to swoop and force another shot on goal.
Burgoyne was in heaps of space mate, that kick hits the tit or Burgoyne attacks it a bit more aggressively and things look a lot different, as I said, it was the execution that was poor not the decision. Lewis, Sammy or Hodge take the same option everytime .
 

TylerDurden

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Burgoyne was in heaps of space mate, that kick hits the tit or Burgoyne attacks it a bit more aggressively and things look a lot different, as I said, it was the execution that was poor not the decision. Lewis, Sammy or Hodge take the same option everytime .
No, it was the fact that he telegraphed it to the whole stadium for an eternity. Any Geelong player with half a brain knew that was going back inside. The kick had to be perfect. He just doesn't have the skill to carry it out. Especially with the pressure of the game on the line. He's a role player/ foot soldier type. Not a game changer. Never has been. Never will be.
 

MasterSamurai

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No, it was the fact that he telegraphed it to the whole stadium for an eternity. Any Geelong player with half a brain knew that was going back inside. The kick had to be perfect. He just doesn't have the skill to carry it out. Especially with the pressure of the game on the line. He's a role player/ foot soldier type. Not a game changer. Never has been. Never will be.
I don't think Clarko tells certain players to NOT take risks! Just like us supporters he's probably sitting back watching 'certain' events unfold to see which players are improving and which ones curl up their toes. İt was a guilt edged opportunity in that if it had come off, it would have put us in a scoring position. Maybe from here on in, Clarko rips Daniel a new one and tells him to not bite off more than he can chew or pats him in the back and tells him to be quicker the next time he attempts something similar, we'll find out soon enough.
 

SA HAWK

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