Autopsy Round 3, 2021: Hawks lose to Cats, Easter Monday

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Roby

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Any player would be criticized for that skill error.

It's not just another chance to have a crack at a whipping boy. Howe is criticized, and has been given the "whipping boy" moniker, for a reason.

Frost and CJ can make those costly mistakes, but what they bring to the side heavily outweighs any such mistakes. The same cannot be said for Howe.
You just have to hate Howe. Too bad for you he ain't getting dropped in 2021. Hope some of you can come around to liking Daniel or it's going to be a long year for you guys.
 

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Roger Rogerson

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Hartigan 50m penalty and the shove Selwood turned in to a downfield cost just as much as Howe and Frost making mistakes.

Wingard 1.3 in a game where 10.9 beat 9.10.

There are many reasons we lost. Picking on 2 incidents is simplistic at best.

If we kicked straighter we would have won. If we didnt give downfields and 50m penalties we would have won. If we werent 10m too high up on defence Scrimshaw would have been in the goal square to block Clark.

Etc.
My point about the players I mentioned were not limited to the cats game. They are repeat offenders over a long period of exposed form. The examples from the weekend were further evidence of their limitations. Good sides can't carry as many of these players as we currently are.

Yes there were many many reasons from nearly all players that cost us the game it is just that the ones I mentioned are always in that group.

We just lack so many footy smarts against Geelong. Especially the senior players. They outsmart us everyone and we NEVER learn. Really upset by the loss. Sloppy and undisciplined footy.
 

Milkshaker

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My frustration was that Geelong outworked us to the loose ball. I was sure we got beat 3:1 on ground ball gets, but it was virtually even. They were so much more effective with their gets that it seemed like they had many times more. We were outworked so hard to the loose ball for three quarters that I don't know how we were even close enough to challenge in the last. If not for O'Meara we would have been slaughtered. He was a one-man clearance machine. Shiels played to his normal high standard. The rest of the midfield were a real letdown.

The forward line also didn't go until the last. The ball comes in and Cats were outnumbering the forwards every time at the ball. We weren't even putting bodies on. Until the last that is and suddenly it was a contest on every entry.

Bolton is coaching the mids and McRae is coaching the forwards. Both are first year coaches in this squad (yes, they are seasoned and Bolton is a returner but he didn't coach last year as he was cut for covid budget cuts) and it shows. Those lines are really hacking it.
I think your right. Worpel and Mitchell were often on their hands and knees in the packs. Geelong would tap it out and both Mitch and Worps became ineffective because they are on all fours. Geelong sweat on the ball being tapped out and hover in numbers. It worked for them all day.
 
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StillAtLarge

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My point about the players I mentioned were not limited to the cats game. They are repeat offenders over a long period of exposed form. The examples from the weekend were further evidence of their limitations. Good sides can't carry as many of these players as we currently are.

Yes there were many many reasons from nearly all players that cost us the game it is just that the ones I mentioned are always in that group.

We just lack so many footy smarts against Geelong. Especially the senior players. They outsmart us everyone and we NEVER learn. Really upset by the loss. Sloppy and undisciplined footy.
These were my sentiments also. The same old sh*t. Blazing to an outnumbered forward line, going to ground in the contest and forwards that flat out refuse to lead at the ball carrier. Rinse & repeat
 

Judd2Sewell

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You just have to hate Howe. Too bad for you he ain't getting dropped in 2021. Hope some of you can come around to liking Daniel or it's going to be a long year for you guys.
How can you hate someone you don't know. Howe hustles hard and you can't question his endeavor or heart. He's just not good enough to help propel this team forward as he has no outstanding elements to his game. That's my opinion of his value to our team. There is literally no hate involved.
 

Judd2Sewell

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Not buying the Geelong are crap mantra. No Dangerfield or Cameron and two injured on the bench towards the end. Would have been pretty ordinary if we did not give them a bit of a run in the last.
No Danger, Cameron and Menegola. They are a much better team with those three in it. They also copped two injuries during the game so they were one down.

They will be a top four side again this year. Let's just hope it ends there.
 

On Topic

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Not buying the Geelong are crap mantra. No Dangerfield or Cameron and two injured on the bench towards the end. Would have been pretty ordinary if we did not give them a bit of a run in the last.
It's a tough one. We are also without Day, Sicily and Gunston who are all best 22 for us and also make us a better side. There's also Patton if you want to include him but serious question marks if he goes better than Kozi or Lewis.

At the end of the day, Geelong are a better team than us currently. How much better is yet to be determined. Regardless, I am confident we will be a better team than what we are currently by seasons end. That's the important thing :)
 

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Roger Rogerson

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I think your right. Worpel and Mitchell were often on their hands and knees in the packs. Geelong would tap it out and both Mitch and Worps became infective because they are on all fours. Geelong sweat on the ball being tapped out and hover in numbers. It worked for them all day.
Howe is another who loves diving in. High risk.

Plus the midfield group when beaten for possession in the centre square just aren't quick enough to chase defensively and make their opponents rush their kicks. The mix just ain't right. We are only a player or two away from finding that balance but it may be that a Worpel has to miss which is the hard decision.
 

cryptor

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No Danger, Cameron and Menegola. They are a much better team with those three in it. They also copped two injuries during the game so they were one down.

They will be a top four side again this year. Let's just hope it ends there.
We'd be much better with Sicily, Gunston and Day in our team. We also copped some really questionable umpiring and score review decisions.

Both teams played with the players they had available, and they dealt with what uncontrollable forces dealt them.

End of the day we barely lost and perhaps with a bit more composure (that will come with experience) or even just another minute on the clock we might have won.
 

Judd2Sewell

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Gunston, Sicily, Day.

Lewis and Wingard 1st game of the year.
I'm aware of who we are missing. Great players, obviously, and two in particular are very important to us whilst the other was fast becoming a key player.

If it's a knob measuring contest though you'd be taking Dangerfield and Cameron, never mind Menegola.
 

Dew2KFC2Flag08

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No Danger, Cameron and Menegola. They are a much better team with those three in it. They also copped two injuries during the game so they were one down.

They will be a top four side again this year. Let's just hope it ends there.
Unless they stop a certain team from three-peating...
 

Snakelilbandit

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We'd be much better with Sicily, Gunston and Day in our team. We also copped some really questionable umpiring and score review decisions.

Both teams played with the players they had available, and they dealt with what uncontrollable forces dealt them.

End of the day we barely lost and perhaps with a bit more composure (that will come with experience) or even just another minute on the clock we might have won.
The most interesting thing about Day and Sicily being back in the team together is where they or their current replacements will play. Can't see us dropping Hartigan, CJ, Hardwick, Frost, Impey or even really Morrison, so where do these guys or Day and Sicily play?

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Roby

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I'm aware of who we are missing. Great players, obviously, and two in particular are very important to us whilst the other was fast becoming a key player.

If it's a knob measuring contest though you'd be taking Dangerfield and Cameron, never mind Menegola.
I'm taking Sicily over Dangerfield. Sicily plays like McGovern and moves the ball like Hurn.

Cameron is no better than Gunston.

Menegola is good but I think Day will be if not already better.

Hawthorn are missing their two best ball users. Take those away from Geelong and they'd struggle even more.
 

Roby

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The most interesting thing about Day and Sicily being back in the team together is where they or their current replacements will play. Can't see us dropping Hartigan, CJ, Hardwick, Frost, Impey or even really Morrison, so where do these guys or Day and Sicily play?

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I wouldn't worry, by that time someone else would be out.

If the whole team was available... Then you'd drop Hartigan for Sicily, Day would come in for either Howe or Morrison.
 

cryptor

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The most interesting thing about Day and Sicily being back in the team together is where they or their current replacements will play. Can't see us dropping Hartigan, CJ, Hardwick, Frost, Impey or even really Morrison, so where do these guys or Day and Sicily play?

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They don't necessarily need to come back into the backline (either at all or full time). Day at this stage could just as easily play wing or half forward. Sicily the same. In fact, would be spicy but both could easily rotate through the middle with Mitchell/Worpel feeding it out to them.

And even if they do end up coming back into the team in the back line you could just as easily move CJ, Hardwick, Impey, Morrison and Scrimshaw around the ground as required. There's heaps of flexibility there.
 

hk89

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If Burgoyne takes that kick and Howe is the one trying to contest I have no doubt there are people in this board asking for Howe's immediate resignation.
Indeed. At the time of the kick, I too thought Burgoyne got caught out. He'd decided to go for separation to make it easier for Howe to hit him, but too late realised the kick didn't have the distance and was caught out spectating when a quicker adjustment might have seen him making a contest of it. A poor kick, but Burgoyne could still have saved the situation with a slightly quicker adjustment.
 

hk89

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This is the important area to note - Geelong have the following players in their squad between 27 and 24:

Jed Bews
Tom Atkins
Jake Kolodjashnij
Mark O'Connor

We have:

Sam Frost
Tom Mitchell
Tim O'Brien
Jaeger O'Meara
Chad Wingard

Daniel Howe
Jarman Impey
Blake Hardwick
Tom Phillips


It's precisely why I'm not as down on our fortunes as a lot of punters on this board. When you add in Sicily, that's the majority of our key players who still have at least 3-4 of their best years to give considering CD player ratings show players peaking at 30.
Yes, good points. It should also be noted we had exactly this age bracket hole in our list at one point, and while we've been criticised for topping up with too many imports to try to stay relevant, you can see from your bolded players that much of our trading was about filling that big age bracket hole, with 5 of the 6 bolded players you bolded coming from other clubs. Sure, a couple of trades that didn't work were opportunistic and not so much about the future, but I think in hindsight our recruitment team did a pretty good job at making sure we don't have a massive talent gap in the 24 to 27 bracket. That gap will cause Geelong some pain for a few years to come, as you can see from the years we brought our players in that it took us a few years to patch up that hole. Of course if they turn their form around and go one step further this year, all will be forgiven by their fans.
 

Judd2Sewell

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The most interesting thing about Day and Sicily being back in the team together is where they or their current replacements will play. Can't see us dropping Hartigan, CJ, Hardwick, Frost, Impey or even really Morrison, so where do these guys or Day and Sicily play?

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I think Day and Impey could play further up the field. Maybe we would trial Scrimshaw in the middle too.
 

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