Autopsy Round 3, 2022: Hawks go down to the Blues

Without wanting to be impolite…

Its clear to me that saying CJ has any room for improvement is an insult somehow.

All players have room for improvement.

My original point was about Frosty.
One thing I have learned is there is sensitivity around CJ because the insults come out when you dare point out where his improvement could come from.

Very happy to talk now about how good he is but lets see what comes back? It might prove my point.

Athleticism, close down speed, breaks defensive lines, is a really great kid, the players love him (as do the fans including me) and the list goes on…please add to my list…


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Personally, I can see CJ being an integral part of our next premiership.

Frosty, not so much. In fact, I'm already concerned about Frostball and how it could cost us in a closely fought final.
 

VernonSpots

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I can see a kick missing its target and going to the opposition.


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I would be far more worried by Worpel than CJ. The former almost purposefully sends it to the opposition, he is that good at it.

CJ however is increasingly going for riskier kicks into the middle and is generally nailing them.

I saw Sicily drop a pretty easy mark he should have taken...I guess that makes him a liability in defence 🙄🙄
 
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I would be far more worried by Worpel than CJ. The former almost purposefully sends it to the opposition, he is that good at it.

CJ however is increasingly going for riskier kicks into the middle and is generally nailing them.

I saw Sicily drop a pretty easy mark he should have taken...I guess that makes him a liability in defence 🙄🙄
Sicily also turns it over going for kicks into the middle. Guess it makes him a poor kick
 
Personally, I can see CJ being an integral part of our next premiership.

Frosty, not so much. In fact, I'm already concerned about Frostball and how it could cost us in a closely fought final.
Bit unfair on Frost, he has been like glue defensively and offensively he set up the sealer against Geelong.

I'm far more confident with Frost's footy this year than I have been previously.
 
Bit unfair on Frost, he has been like glue defensively and offensively he set up the sealer against Geelong.

I'm far more confident with Frost's footy this year than I have been previously.
Fair enough, but I always have heart in mouth moments whenever he takes possession. It just takes one bad disposal in a close final to be costly and I have concerns that if anyone is gonna do it at a critical time...
 
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Bit unfair on Frost, he has been like glue defensively and offensively he set up the sealer against Geelong.
Him and Mitchell won a 2 on 4 at the Punt Rd end. Been 14 years since I've seen that against Geelong
 

VernonSpots

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But I think most ppl (including me) are saying they don't really notice those clangers you refer to? Maybe that's the reason for the sensitivity
 
Yeah i don't believe in the umpires making the difference i never have but it will interesting because have you in the past?
2016 Semi Final - Footsore def Hawthorn

Now, I know you saw this game...
 
2016 Semi Final - Footsore def Hawthorn

Now, I know you saw this game...
Yeah naah i was there mate. The umpires werent the reason. We made far more mistakes than the umpires. Besides the bulldogs played pretty well and we didnt put them away they got a sniff and were away. If free kicks determined games the bulldogs wouldnt loose a game the way everyone thinks they are favoured. If you as a player are worrying about the umpires u have already lost your focus and might lose the game because of it. Focus on the things u can control.
 

PenAndPaper

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I'd actually agree with everything you just said until you got the the Sic part. All players make mistakes. Some make them more than others. The point that started this part of the thread was me pointing out that Frosty has improved his turnovers and he was much maligned for them. Frosty in my view is playing incredible footy right now. Up there at this stage to be AA.
I think somewhere back there I referred to how CJ turns the ball over but we dont seem to notice it. I should have used Worpel as an example actually because people seem to be very sensitive about CJ. Of course Sic is no liability in defence and neither is CJ or Worpel in the middle. Sic for some reason gets the heeby jeebies in front of goal which I dont understand. Hes such a confident and skilled kick. But just an area for improvement, not a call to have him dropped. That would be rediculous.
Its not people being sensitive.
Its people proving you wrong because CJ is elite in his disposal this year which is an undeniable fact.

People don't seem to notice CJ turning the ball over because this year he very rarely has..
 

SpanishBrowne

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Sic for some reason gets the heeby jeebies in front of goal which I dont understand.
even this is a questionable statement. per his post match interview.. he's had like one crack at goal in 3 years (i think that's what he said) which unfortunately posted. Somehow you've now concluded that Sic is now cursed when kicking for a goal (which ain't his job anymore anyways...)
 

CHUBBSS

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even this is a questionable statement. per his post match interview.. he's had like one crack at goal in 3 years (i think that's what he said) which unfortunately posted. Somehow you've now concluded that Sic is now cursed when kicking for a goal (which ain't his job anymore anyways...)
Agree just limited practice creates a few nerves, I still remember when Josh Gibson had his set shot on goal was pretty funny. And if Sic was kicking from 50 probs would of nailed it, just that awkward shot made him stab at it.
 
I think somewhere back there I referred to how CJ turns the ball over but we dont seem to notice it. I should have used Worpel as an example actually because people seem to be very sensitive about CJ.
It’s not about sensitivity, it’s about things that are false being presented as fact.

You actually posted that he was not a good user, and that “hes a star but HE TURNS THE BALL OVER more often than others.”

That was proven to not be a fact, but BS.
 

Hawker55

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Fair enough, but I always have heart in mouth moments whenever he takes possession. It just takes one bad disposal in a close final to be costly and I have concerns that if anyone is gonna do it at a critical time...
Some of that is historical though. A lot of times he had to take risks as no one else would. Hence his runs up field. His role this year is a lot clearer it seems - give the ball to someone else who’s a better kick and stay on his man.

It’s a bit like Lake when he came over
 
Yeah naah i was there mate. The umpires werent the reason. We made far more mistakes than the umpires. Besides the bulldogs played pretty well and we didnt put them away they got a sniff and were away. If free kicks determined games the bulldogs wouldnt loose a game the way everyone thinks they are favoured. If you as a player are worrying about the umpires u have already lost your focus and might lose the game because of it. Focus on the things u can control.

I love ragging the umps....so I will. :D They were shocking that game.

However, while never having re-watched the game, my memory from the 2nd tier seat I had at the Punt Rd end was that Breust missed a bloody sitter when we had a 4 goal lead early in the 3rd and that had he kicked it we would likely have pushed on and won regardless of the muppets.
 
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Yeah naah i was there mate. The umpires werent the reason. We made far more mistakes than the umpires. Besides the bulldogs played pretty well and we didnt put them away they got a sniff and were away. If free kicks determined games the bulldogs wouldnt loose a game the way everyone thinks they are favoured. If you as a player are worrying about the umpires u have already lost your focus and might lose the game because of it. Focus on the things u can control.
the only game ive ever thought umpires identifiably changed the result of the game was when we lost to them in 2019
 
Maybe you should consider BlindNotRealistic? 🤣


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um... you KNOW people have been citing facts which show he is among the club's 3 most efficient kickers. THEY are the ones being realistic. You are the one being blind. Whatever chip you have blinding you to the facts needs to have some sort of ectomy. Several times people have shown you the actual stats from this year stating with obvious clarity that Jiath is one of the best kicks at the club, and you have some problem with facts, and keep clinging to your fantastical yet incorrect rhetoric that suggests he is a poor kick.

Here is the list of players at Hawthorn this season who have had 50 kicks or more.

Changkuoth Jiath 56 kicks at 83.9% efficiency
James Sicily 123 kicks at 79.7% efficiency
Blake Hardwick 85 kicks at 78.8% efficiency
Jack Scrimshaw 80 kicks at 76.3% efficiency
Sam Frost 62 kicks at 69.4% efficiency
Harry Morrison 72 kicks at 66.7% efficiency
Dylan Moore 82 kicks at 65.9% efficiency
Jack Gunston 53 kicks at 62.3% efficiency
Jai Newcombe 94 kicks at 61.7% efficiency
Jaeger O'Meara 61 kicks at 59% efficiency
Tom Mitchell 87 kicks at 56.3% efficiency
Josh Ward 50 kicks at 56% efficiency
James Worpel 65 kicks at 46.2% efficiency


He is number 1 at our club.

Across the entire league, now we're talking several hundred players, for those who have kicked the ball fifty times or more, he ranks 11th IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE.

1 Harris Andrews 92.2%
2 Wil Powell 90.2%
3 Steven May 89.1%
4 Luke Ryan 88.6%
5 Billy Frampton 88.2%
6 Jordan Ridley 87.5%
7 Brennan Cox 87%
8 Isaac Cumming 85.7%
9 Daniel Rioli 84.7%
10 Jake Kolodjashnij 84%
11 Changkuoth Jiath 83.9%
12 Callum Wilkie 83.6%
13 Taylor Duryea 83.6%
14 Tom Stewart 83.3%
15 Nathan Broad 83.3%
16 Ryan Gardner 83.1%
17 Alex Witherden 82.7%
18 Dougal Howard 82.4%
19 Connor Idun 82.1%
20 Jeremy Howe 81.5%


Now tell me again how all the people in the threat are emotionally posting with their sensitivity and their heart strings taut. Maybe look at the fact instead of posting BS.
 
Mate, chill out. 83.9% kicking efficiency THIS YEAR. I said he has improved. BUT - that leaves 17% of them inefficient and THOSE are the ones I am talking about. It is NOT ONLY kicking. He turns the ball over by hand as well. IN MY OPINION he makes some shocking turnovers that cost us. Again, in case you arent reading and your'e thinking about your next insult - it is MY OPINION. You are not going to change it but knock yourself out.
Your opinion is blatantly wrong and that’s the issue, because CJ’s output and efficiency is measured and quantified by the stats that we have all provided. Opinion doesn’t come into it, when there are actual measures in place to capture his efficiency.

You’ve been presented the facts that prove this, but you keep doubling down.
 
Mate, chill out. 83.9% kicking efficiency THIS YEAR. I said he has improved. BUT - that leaves 17% of them inefficient and THOSE are the ones I am talking about. It is NOT ONLY kicking. He turns the ball over by hand as well. IN MY OPINION he makes some shocking turnovers that cost us. Again, in case you arent reading and your'e thinking about your next insult - it is MY OPINION. You are not going to change it but knock yourself out.
Superb quoting skills on display here.

You really don't get it. You're worried about the other 17%, but your not worried about the other Hawthorn players who are ALL more inefficient than him. You have a vendetta and a problem.
 
Mate, chill out. 83.9% kicking efficiency THIS YEAR. I said he has improved. BUT - that leaves 17% of them inefficient and THOSE are the ones I am talking about. It is NOT ONLY kicking. He turns the ball over by hand as well. IN MY OPINION he makes some shocking turnovers that cost us. Again, in case you arent reading and your'e thinking about your next insult - it is MY OPINION. You are not going to change it but knock yourself out.
Extraordinary response. Go away.
 

CHUBBSS

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Mate, chill out. 83.9% kicking efficiency THIS YEAR. I said he has improved. BUT - that leaves 17% of them inefficient and THOSE are the ones I am talking about. It is NOT ONLY kicking. He turns the ball over by hand as well. IN MY OPINION he makes some shocking turnovers that cost us. Again, in case you arent reading and your'e thinking about your next insult - it is MY OPINION. You are not going to change it but knock yourself out.
Your officially a troll or senile maybe both
 
This is a footy chat. If you don’t like people with a different opinion to yours and prefer to personally abuse others try twitter.
You can't preface something with "It's my opinion", then write whatever s**t comes to mind and just expect people to accept it, especially when you've been proven wrong.

No-one agrees with you that CJ's kicking is as bad as you make it out to be. Let it go. Let this thread die.
 
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