Review Round 3, 2024 - Brisbane Lions vs. Collingwood

[Nathan Barley]

With 2 rucks I couldn't understand Joe ever taking a ball in... And yet there he was. It should have been a game to play deep forwards and use the other ruck to link play.

Instead we had a team of girrafes lumbering around watching balls bounce off every conceivable part of their bodies.

Worse was often the fact that when that happened for the 100th time there was still no small forward crumbing.

Joe just needs to take advantage of his opportunities.... But for me 4 bean stalks is at least 1 too many regardless of role

There's about 30 players around the ball ins in the forward line. Very little rucks can do. Very common occurrence to have a forward take the ruck and the ruck push a kick behind the play

 

[Squizz89]

Assume no one had the balls to ask Fages in the presser if Charlie is injured and if so, why was he out there on one leg last night?

 

[SizeMatters]

Linked femininity in what way sorry? I’m a bit lost.

Eh. Missed it. Auto type has been awful on my phone. Fat fingers. Had to edit literally every post I made yesterday due to this issue. Wouldn’t sweat it I’ll wait in names.

 

[Sanchez365]

The game was pretty terrible all around, but my big issue really sits with our midfield. Besides Neale putting on an absolute master class in that second quarter, I'm just not sure what is going on. What's frustrating is we just don't seem to have a plan of what to do in there.

The only player we have that tries to move at at a stoppages is Neale, which must be by design. The rucks only play is to try and bring the ball to their feet for Neale to dig out, we must be the easiest team to prepare against week in week out.

Dunkley had a shocker, seemed to have little influence on the game. McCluggage was clearly our second best after Neale and the only one that could deliver inside 50. Oscar and Fort are both 1 half of a ruckman each, so we have to waste two spots to get them both in and they were still bested by Cox.

Then we come to Bailey, Rayner and Robertson, who were used in that order as relief midfielders. Bails had a shocker, the pressure was too hot for him and he couldn't tackle and was caught trying to do too much time after time.

I have been a big proponent of Rayner going in the middle and he had a decent game overall last night. But he has zero midfield craft. He seemed to have no idea where to position himself, wasn't on the move at any stoppage and just didn't seem to read the game well at all. He also had butter hands all night, made to look even worse by Neale, but Rayner wasn't alone in that regard (cough Robertson).

I seriously question our midfield coaching, how can we not have a system yet after 7 years of Fagan that isn't "tap it to your feet for Neale". It's clear noone else has a license to play freely in there, and we have such a small unit that basically noone can break through the congestion the pies put around the ball.

The problem is who do we change in there? Bringing back Lyons who seems to be our only other midfielder with a brain is suicide on the turnover. Maybe moving Lester into the middle when Gardiner comes back? He seems to have high footy IQ and will run defensively. Maybe McCarthy? There really doesn't seem to be much in the reserves besides a handful of very young options. May need to hit the MSD at this rate.

 

[Happy_Neale]

4 games after a grand final - sack Fagan. On brand for this board.

 

[CarterS]

Fagan said in the press conference that it's not time to hit the panic button, well a few in here are.

 

[CarterS]

Mental scars from GF, reminds me of Sydney a few years ago.

 

[Bramax]

I can't accept the contention that our guys weren't giving it everything tonight.

We "won" nearly all the stats, including Inside 50's but again, blew many scoring opportunities with wayward kicking on goal

However, collectively the team is just out of form and looks down on confidence.

Daniher and Hipwood looked like they had hands made of concrete, although there was interference several times in marking contests that the umps chose to ignore. There was one instance in the last quarter where Hipwood was in the process of attempting to control a juggling mark but got a blatant shove in the back so had no opportunity to do so. Play on?

I thought the umpiring sucked overall.

From 14-all free kicks at half time, the Pies got 16-6 in the second half. How many HTB frees did they pluck to Collingwood in that second half?.....it just seemed like one way traffic. Stacks on the mill and a Lions player on the bottom of the pack......free kick Collingwood.

That said, we were our own worst enemies and probably got what we deserved in the end.

One last thing....can the Rayner haters please give it a break? I thought he was bloody good tonight, as was Lester who never seems to get flustered in tight situations, has great anticipation and spatial awareness AND gets a bad wrap for being "slow" when he actually shows decent pace when he has too.

I'm depressed as anyone else here but the constant carping and negativity just makes it worse.

And for Chrissakes, can we give the "Sack Fagan" thing a rest too. That man has taken us from a total rabble to a serious football team. It seems ro me that we need to look at the bigger picture instead of looking for scapegoats every time we have a loss.

0-3 is a terrible start but it's a long season and I'm not prepared to write us of at this early point.

Get a win on the board next week and things can turn around pretty quickly.

Who was that guy that said "Things are never as good or bad as they seem"?

Hang in there and keep the faith mate.
The Pies were in the same spot a week ago.
The Lions are too good a team not to turn your season around.
A couple of questions?
When is young Ashcroft coming back? He’s a star and has as much impact for the Lions as Nick Daicos does for the Pies imo.
And how much do you think you’re missing Coleman? I think he’s the most damaging half back in the game. He’s just a weapon with his kicking skills.
Good luck for the rest of the season. Don’t worry. You’ll contend again this season.

 

[buttermuffs]

Eh. Missed it. Auto type has been awful on my phone. Fat fingers. Had to edit literally every post I made yesterday due to this issue. Wouldn’t sweat it I’ll wait in names.

Fair enough. Apologies I might have been a bit aggressive.

 

[3KZ is Football]

The game was pretty terrible all around, but my big issue really sits with our midfield. Besides Neale putting on an absolute master class in that second quarter, I'm just not sure what is going on. What's frustrating is we just don't seem to have a plan of what to do in there.

The only player we have that tries to move at at a stoppages is Neale, which must be by design. The rucks only play is to try and bring the ball to their feet for Neale to dig out, we must be the easiest team to prepare against week in week out.

Dunkley had a shocker, seemed to have little influence on the game. McCluggage was clearly our second best after Neale and the only one that could deliver inside 50. Oscar and Fort are both 1 half of a ruckman each, so we have to waste two spots to get them both in and they were still bested by Cox.

Then we come to Bailey, Rayner and Robertson, who were used in that order as relief midfielders. Bails had a shocker, the pressure was too hot for him and he couldn't tackle and was caught trying to do too much time after time.

I have been a big proponent of Rayner going in the middle and he had a decent game overall last night. But he has zero midfield craft. He seemed to have no idea where to position himself, wasn't on the move at any stoppage and just didn't seem to read the game well at all. He also had butter hands all night, made to look even worse by Neale, but Rayner wasn't alone in that regard (cough Robertson).

I seriously question our midfield coaching, how can we not have a system yet after 7 years of Fagan that isn't "tap it to your feet for Neale". It's clear noone else has a license to play freely in there, and we have such a small unit that basically noone can break through the congestion the pies put around the ball.

The problem is who do we change in there? Bringing back Lyons who seems to be our only other midfielder with a brain is suicide on the turnover. Maybe moving Lester into the middle when Gardiner comes back? He seems to have high footy IQ and will run defensively. Maybe McCarthy? There really doesn't seem to be much in the reserves besides a handful of very young options. May need to hit the MSD at this rate.

Lester would be great in the middle. Super smart and his solo run down tackle in the third quarter, which was a certain goal saver, shows exactly why he is so valuable to our team. If he were given that assignment, you know he would bust his gut to make it work. If only some of the show ponies who are automatic selections under Fagan played with a fraction of the heart, courage and consistency Lester shows. I wouldn’t play him there though, because he is our backline general and he and Harris are becoming a super valuable defensive combination.

As for Dunkley, you are 100% correct. He needs to face much closer scrutiny. Too many missed tackles, too much cruise control. Dunkley had 26 disposals last night. Lyons had 25 against Fremantle, including a 10 disposal last quarter and was dropped. Dunkley seems to specialise in soft touches and he leaves far too much to Neale. We need to clear the project players out of the middle and play Lyons, who is a genuine pure mid.
#Lester200
#FrogMarch
#LesterArmy

 

[Nathan Barley]

4 games after a grand final - sack Fagan. On brand for this board.

But what have we achieved....

 

[Nathan Barley]

Thought JBerry and Fletcher were much better last night. Berry was finding the footy and tackling. Still a few errors but at least he was getting involved more. Fletcher kicked a great goal and seemed to find more confidence in his ball use

Wilmot is also getting super consistent

Though Ah Chee had a good first half but his ball use was very poor

 

[Sanchez365]

Lester would be great in the middle. Super smart and his solo run down tackle in the third quarter, which was a certain goal saver, shows exactly why he is so valuable to our team. If he were given that assignment, you know he would bust his gut to make it work. If only some of the show ponies who are automatic selections under Fagan played with a fraction of the heart, courage and consistency Lester shows. I wouldn’t play him there though, because he is our backline general and he and Harris are becoming a super valuable defensive combination.

As for Dunkley, you are 100% correct. He needs to face much closer scrutiny. Too many missed tackles, too much cruise control. Dunkley had 26 disposals last night. Lyons had 25 against Fremantle, including a 10 disposal last quarter and was dropped. Dunkley seems to specialise in soft touches and he leaves far too much to Neale. We need to clear the project players out of the middle and play Lyons, who is a genuine pure mid.
#Lester200
#FrogMarch
#LesterArmy

I understand the sentiment of playing Lyons more now after watching last night, however we have to move past him. He just gets torched too hard after the contest and we need to give the midfield a refresh, not drag it back.

 

[Thomasno]

Agree with your post but the above stood out to me.....The blaming of Fagan is a cop out imo.....it wasn't Fagan who had "concrete hands" tonight....it wasn't Fagan who handballed to a player surrounded by the opposition...It wasn't Fagan who kicked straight to the opposition....and it wasn't Fagan who made silly/slow decisions and got caught..or fumbled with the ball and stuffed up to the point my blood pressure must've been sky high..

Yes, quite a few of the players need a damn good kick up the backside, particularly Mr so cool, gum chewing Daniher and his mate Eric..

We have the talent but they are too comfortable atm and need a reality check.

I hope the media give us the same as the Pies got. Not sure that will happen though. Not a Vic team.

I don’t think Fagan is the problem, BUT at the same time a new coach with the right list might unlock something.

Look at Collingwood - I don’t think Buckley was a bad coach at all to be honest. But things were stagnating, and when McRae came in it was an immediate boost both in player effort, and the change in strategy worked for them too.

 

[Thomasno]

Not to mention this constant over hand balling which Fagan himself said we were going to do with this fast ball movements it hasn’t worked at all.

Disagree, I like the handballing. Worked our way out of a few high pressure situations yesterday with it.

Big contrast to past years where we barely handballed it at all, and instead opted for the dump kick forward.

Like I said a few pages back, I think the gameplan actually was okay last night. It was just the personnel and poor, poor skill errors

 

[Nathan Barley]

I don’t think Fagan is the problem, BUT at the same time a new coach with the right list might unlock something.

Look at Collingwood - I don’t think Buckley was a bad coach at all to be honest. But things were stagnating, and when McRae came in it was an immediate boost both in player effort, and the change in strategy worked for them too.

Could probably say a lot of premiership coaches teams were stagnating before finally breaking through though

Chris Scott and Hardwick recently

 

[3KZ is Football]

I understand the sentiment of playing Lyons more now after watching last night, however we have to move past him. He just gets torched too hard after the contest and we need to give the midfield a refresh, not drag it back.

I don’t see that he gets done as frequently as people say. Respectfully, the Lyons gets torched narrative is a bit like the Lester can’t run and Lester doesn’t intercept narrative we used to hear when he was being overlooked. It doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

If we play Lyons as a pure mid, we put the runners around him. Bailey and Dunkley are supposed to be quick, but they are too often out bodied and then standing flat footed watching opponents run the ball out of the middle. The idea with Lyons is that he is more likely to win the contest than Bailey ever will or Dunkley currently does.

Footnote: Lester was Equal 3rd for Intercept Possessions last night with 6, behind Zorko 9 and Andrews 7.

 

[Gadzorks]

I spent my off season working on my over emotional, game spoiling emotions.

Last night was the biggest test so far.

Managed to hold it together for 90%, but that 10% was super costly. Rage and frustration slipped through and scored heavily. I gave the game away in that small about of time.

Lots of positives to come out of it, a few tweaks during the week and a good relaxed lead up and I anticipate a much better performance next week.

 

[Section 5]

Will watch the VFL in about 30 minutes time.

Hopefully Fagan just wanted to see some players with 2 VFL games under their belt before making a senior judgment.
We need a marking 3rd tall with some smarts.
A midfielder, obviously not Tunstill otherwise you would have thought he would have been played in the middle by now.
Looking for how these guys go assuming they play.
Lloyd (pick 42), Morris ((pick 31), Torrent (pick 64), Reville & Brain both Cat B rookie.

Below list of debut players since 2021 and their total AFL games played.
Pretty clear that if you are under pick 20 you are more likely to get a go in the AFL.

Debut Year	Player	Total AFL Games Played
2021	Prior (pick number 59)	35
2021	Madden (Cat B rookie)	13
2021	Sharp (43)	10
2022	Wilmott (16)	32
2022	Lohmann (20)	11
2022	Tunstill (41)	5
2022	Michael (Cat B rookie)	1
2023	Ashcroft (2)	18
2023	Fletcher (12)	17

 

[Lion_LegacyXL]

Charlie, Daniher & Hipwood need to stop playing behind their man trying to take speccies and offer our mids a lead.

 

[Gadzorks]

pretty sure our tackling efficiency against FREO was 52 %, but our tackling efficiency has been a issue for a while.

Does the club have a tackling coach..???

We've always needed a tackling coach.

 

[goalkicker11]

Not gonna win any games playing ok for one quarter.

There must be something going on at the club, they don't seem happy. Even if they do wake up at some point, the season might already be too far gone.

Strong rumour that some of the players have had a falling out.

 

[Nunez]

Will watch the VFL in about 30 minutes time.

Hopefully Fagan just wanted to see some players with 2 VFL games under their belt before making a senior judgment.
We need a marking 3rd tall with some smarts.
A midfielder, obviously not Tunstill otherwise you would have thought he would have been played in the middle by now.
Looking for how these guys go assuming they play.
Lloyd (pick 42), Morris ((pick 31), Torrent (pick 64), Reville & Brain both Cat B rookie.

Below list of debut players since 2021 and their total AFL games played.
Pretty clear that if you are under pick 20 you are more likely to get a go in the AFL.

Debut Year	Player	Total AFL Games Played
2021	Prior (pick number 59)	35
2021	Madden (Cat B rookie)	13
2021	Sharp (43)	10
2022	Wilmott (16)	32
2022	Lohmann (20)	11
2022	Tunstill (41)	5
2022	Michael (Cat B rookie)	1
2023	Ashcroft (2)	18
2023	Fletcher (12)	17

I wouldn't rule out Tunstill. Big issue over the years was his build. He's now quite strong and fit - absolutely ready to get an opportunity. His kicking in the first half last week was average, but in general he's always been a serviceable kick so not worried about that. His defensive pressure was really good.

Big opportunity for him today. Deliver another 30 touch, six tackle game and it'll be very hard to give him a run.

 

[Section 5]

I wouldn't rule out Tunstill. Big issue over the years was his build. He's now quite strong and fit - absolutely ready to get an opportunity. His kicking in the first half last week was average, but in general he's always been a serviceable kick so not worried about that. His defensive pressure was really good.

Big opportunity for him today. Deliver another 30 touch, six tackle game and it'll be very hard to give him a run.

Don't get me wrong i think on form he should be given an inside mid job in the seniors.
Pure mid relief for Neale and Dunkley with some odd times on the field the same time as them.
However, that has not happened.

 

[JasRulz63]

While Doedee hasn't played, we've essentially lost three of our starting 7 defenders including most of our run and line breaking. The coaches would've went into the season with a certain defensive and transition game plan in mind that essentially needs to be heavily re-worked within a month of the season starting.